Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.

"Calzone" wrote in message
...
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I
want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly
square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on
dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage -
not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take
it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can
post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.

Actually probably easiest to knock it down and start again. Pour a
good solid concrete slab on the demolition rubble. Incorportate at
least 50mm of polystyrene foam and a damp membrane in the slab which
needs to finish at least 6 preferably 8 inches above the ground level.
Don't forget to incorporate access for your services up through the
floor (underground drain pipe terminal bend works for me). Rebuild
walls using either blocks (with dpc) externally with a studding lining
with insulation or possibly a celcon inner leaf. Roof to your choice
and enjoy.

More work than I expect you want but infinately better in the long
run.

AWEM

Hi. Are you saying that because of the floor? Is stone on dirt really
no good, even for a basic kind of office space? I'm not wanting
anything with all mod cons, just a place I can write. I have
considered knocking down and starting again, BTW, Just interested in
your reason. And I assume I would need planning permission to make the
dimensions of the replacement structure any bigger?

Cheers,

C.


On 21 Feb, 22:09, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
Actually probably easiest to knock it down and start again. Pour a
good solid concrete slab on the demolition rubble. Incorportate at
least 50mm of polystyrene foam and a damp membrane in the slab which
needs to finish at least 6 preferably 8 inches above the ground level.
Don't forget to incorporate access for your services up through the
floor (underground drain pipe terminal bend works for me). Rebuild
walls using either blocks (with dpc) externally with a studding lining
with insulation or possibly a celcon inner leaf. Roof to your choice
and enjoy.

More work than I expect you want but infinately better in the long
run.

AWEM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Calzone" wrote in message
...
Hi. Are you saying that because of the floor? Is stone on dirt really
no good, even for a basic kind of office space? I'm not wanting
anything with all mod cons, just a place I can write. I have
considered knocking down and starting again, BTW, Just interested in
your reason. And I assume I would need planning permission to make the
dimensions of the replacement structure any bigger?
snip
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/eng...noutbuildings/

Calzone wrote:
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.
cheap solution:

Insulation is best on the outside, but that means weatherproofing it.
You have room to put 3 inches of kingspan seconds on the walls and ceilings.

if its a metal roof then perhaps 80% of heatloss is now through the roof.

Can you put kingspan on the existing floor then cover that, or would the
door be too inconvenient?

Or thick carpets?

Paraffin heaters give out loads of water vapour H2O
and create loads of condensation
so you'd have to leave a window open or somehow ventilate.

wood burners suck in cold air, and hot out through the chimney.

I use electric heaters.

or get a caravan!

[g]

Calzone wrote:
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

I'm just in the process of fitting out a 3m x 3m extension to the rear
of my garage, which is similar, except I have already run electricty 25m
underground to the garage and the roof was replaced about 10 years ago
with a felted flat roof that a friend suggested would be strong enough
to park the car on top of. I also have a problem in very heavy rain of
water running in under the door from the compound outside and flooding
the garage. As the concrete slab it was built on has sunk in one corner,
the water can be a couple of inches deep at the back.

My choice is damp proof membrane over the existing concrete floor, with
110mm Celotex XR 3000 on that

http://www.celotex.co.uk/Products/Ce...Celotex-XR3000

on top of which I am laying 22mm thick water resiatant tongue and
grooved flooring chipboard. At the moment, I step down from the garden
into the garage and the thickness I have chosen will make it more or
less level, with a few millimitres clearance for the inward opening
door. To stop the water running under the new floor when it floods, I am
building a blockwork wall across most of the width, with an opening that
has a tile on brick step, to match the height of the floor. A door would
be inconvenient in this wall, so the opening will be closed with a heavy
curtain.

The external walls I plan to line in a very traditional manner, with
12mm plasterboard on timber studding, with a vapour barrier against the
wall and the gaps filled with insulation. Expanded polystyene is
convenient for me to get, so I will be using that. The North facing
wall will get 75mm insulation, the other outside walls 50mm, while I
will probably simply stick foam backed plasterboard to the dividing
wall, when I get a round tuit. The garage has anti-frost heating, so I
only need to plan for a minimum of 4C on the other side of that wall.

The roof has 125mm deep rafters, so those will get filled with mineral
wool - it holds itself up better than polystyrene foam. In theory, I
will staple a vapour barrier under the foam and overlay that with 9mm
plasterboard, although I suspect the plasterboard may take some time to
appear.

As I want to use this area as a dry store, it will have tubular electric
heaters. If you plan to use a mobile bomb to heat yours, remember it
will need a lot of air to avoind killing you with carbon monoxide and
will put out significant volumes of water vapour.

Colin Bignell

On 21 Feb, 22:09, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
Actually probably easiest to knock it down and start again. Pour a
good solid concrete slab on the demolition rubble. Incorportate at
least 50mm of polystyrene foam and a damp membrane in the slab
which
needs to finish at least 6 preferably 8 inches above the ground
level.
Don't forget to incorporate access for your services up through
the
floor (underground drain pipe terminal bend works for me). Rebuild
walls using either blocks (with dpc) externally with a studding
lining
with insulation or possibly a celcon inner leaf. Roof to your
choice
and enjoy.

More work than I expect you want but infinately better in the long
run.

AWEM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Calzone" wrote in message
...
Hi. Are you saying that because of the floor? Is stone on dirt
really
no good, even for a basic kind of office space? I'm not wanting
anything with all mod cons, just a place I can write. I have
considered knocking down and starting again, BTW, Just interested in
your reason. And I assume I would need planning permission to make
the
dimensions of the replacement structure any bigger?

Cheers,

C.


If you want any sort of reasonable environment for a office which
obviously contains paper then the damp becomes a big issue as
everything will soon be mildewy in the winter. Stopping moisture being
drawn up from an earth floor is virtually impossible hence the
concrete/ polystyrene/dpc suggestion.

Planning is a whole issue on its own - you probably need change of use
anyway BUT how visable is it and are the neighbours going to complain.
There is always the thirteenth commandment - "thou shalt not get
caught" !

AWEM

The external walls I plan to line in a very traditional manner, with
12mm plasterboard on timber studding, with a vapour barrier against the
wall and the gaps filled with insulation..
shouldnt the vapour barrier be on the warm side?
it sounds like youre putting it against the wall then insulating,
though i may be wrong (again)

[g]

On 21 Feb, 22:09, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:
"Calzone" wrote in message

...



Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I
want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly
square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on
dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage -
not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take
it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can
post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.

Actually probably easiest to knock it down and start again. Pour a
good solid concrete slab on the demolition rubble. Incorportate at
least 50mm of polystyrene foam and a damp membrane in the slab which
needs to finish at least 6 preferably 8 inches above the ground level.
Don't forget to incorporate access for your services up through the
floor (underground drain pipe terminal bend works for me). Rebuild
walls using either blocks (with dpc) externally with a studding lining
with insulation or possibly a celcon inner leaf. Roof to your choice
and enjoy.

More work than I expect you want but infinately better in the long
run.

AWEM

I would tend to agree - except that I would make it easier for
yourself by going the timber frame route with weatherboarding,
insulation, OSB or plasterboard lining.

I would retrieve the roof material, take down the blocks to one or two
levels above ground, pour concrete as suggested, membrane strip on the
blocks and build up from there with 3 x 2 framing. You can then put
the door where you want it and incorporate windows too.

Rob

OK, looks like a bit more work than I thought. I see the idea behind
rebuilding the whole thing but I have to be realistic - I don't have
the skills. I should be able to do the floor fill with concrete,
though (with the guidance of a neighbour), so that may be the best
option, then insulating the walls as suggested. Bit worried about the
roof too, which seems to be wet all over on the inside at the moment
(melting snow). I guess it wouldn't be too much to put a new one of
the same type on and insulate. These are just thoughts, though, and I
am in no way decided! Further thoughts sought if you have any. Or if
you know of a website case study type thing where something similar
was done.

FYI, there is a pick of the place here. Bit of a hovel, really:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16233393@N04/4379385136/

Looks like a project for the summer.

C.

Calzone wrote:
OK, looks like a bit more work than I thought. I see the idea behind
rebuilding the whole thing but I have to be realistic - I don't have
the skills. I should be able to do the floor fill with concrete,
though (with the guidance of a neighbour), so that may be the best
option, then insulating the walls as suggested. Bit worried about the
roof too, which seems to be wet all over on the inside at the moment
(melting snow). I guess it wouldn't be too much to put a new one of
the same type on and insulate. These are just thoughts, though, and I
am in no way decided! Further thoughts sought if you have any. Or if
you know of a website case study type thing where something similar
was done.

FYI, there is a pick of the place here. Bit of a hovel, really:

You should have seen our garden shed before I refurbed it. Looks like
new now :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16233393@N04/4379385136/

Looks like a project for the summer.

Be careful here. this summer coming might be too hot for the work that
has been suggested to you. Try and start about the middle of next month.

It is only a hunch, but I am expecting the spring and summer to be
almost as hot as 1976 this time.

Dave

george [dicegeorge] wrote:
Calzone wrote:
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.
cheap solution:

Insulation is best on the outside, but that means weatherproofing it.
You have room to put 3 inches of kingspan seconds on the walls and
ceilings.

if its a metal roof then perhaps 80% of heatloss is now through the roof.

Can you put kingspan on the existing floor then cover that, or would the
door be too inconvenient?

Or thick carpets?

Paraffin heaters give out loads of water vapour H2O
and create loads of condensation
so you'd have to leave a window open or somehow ventilate.

wood burners suck in cold air, and hot out through the chimney.

Wood burners might suck cold air in, but the builder I drink with at
lunchtime swears by them. He has one in his house, one in his garage and
one on his canal boat and each one, he claims, gets the place toasty
warm in short order. One trick I have learned is to get as much heat
into the room by having as much flu in the room as possible. Looking at
you photo, wood burner is at bottom left and the flu exits at top right.

If you want, I'll pump him about your situation.

Dave

Dave wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
Calzone wrote:
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.
cheap solution:

Insulation is best on the outside, but that means weatherproofing it.
You have room to put 3 inches of kingspan seconds on the walls and
ceilings.

if its a metal roof then perhaps 80% of heatloss is now through the roof.

Can you put kingspan on the existing floor then cover that, or would
the door be too inconvenient?

Or thick carpets?

Paraffin heaters give out loads of water vapour H2O
and create loads of condensation
so you'd have to leave a window open or somehow ventilate.

wood burners suck in cold air, and hot out through the chimney.

Wood burners might suck cold air in, but the builder I drink with at
lunchtime swears by them. He has one in his house, one in his garage and
one on his canal boat and each one, he claims, gets the place toasty
warm in short order. One trick I have learned is to get as much heat
into the room by having as much flu in the room as possible. Looking at
you photo, wood burner is at bottom left and the flu exits at top right.

If you want, I'll pump him about your situation.

Dave
the trick is to have an air iinlet to the burner piped in from outside
so it doesnt suck cold air into the room.

[g]

george [dicegeorge] wrote:


The external walls I plan to line in a very traditional manner, with
12mm plasterboard on timber studding, with a vapour barrier against
the wall and the gaps filled with insulation..
shouldnt the vapour barrier be on the warm side?
it sounds like youre putting it against the wall then insulating,
though i may be wrong (again)

Normally yes, but with single brick walls, water penetration is a
problem when it rains, so I'm putting the plastic sheet against the
wall. Perhaps I should put it both sides, just in case. It is cheap enough.

Colin Bignell

george [dicegeorge] wrote:
Dave wrote:
george [dicegeorge] wrote:
Calzone wrote:
Hi. There is a v.small stable down the bottom of the garden and I want
to convert it into an office type thing. The place is roughly square,
about 10 foot by 10 (I think it was used for a couple of Shetland
ponies). The roof is kind of modern style corrugated metal of some
sort. Walls are concrete blocks and the ground is stone slabs on dirt.
It is well over 100m from the house, and about 75 from the detached
garage which has a power supply.

My main concern is to make the place insulated, largely bug-free and
not smelling of the outdoors. I intend to heat the place with a
standalone gas heater and feed some power to it from the garage - not
sure how. I am not sure of anything. What I am after are any tips on
where to start. I have only basic DIY experience but I want to take it
on as a project. Can you suggest somewhere to read up on stuff that
would be relevant? Any guidance based on what I have said? I can post
photos, give more info etc.

Any help appreciated,

Charlie.
cheap solution:

Insulation is best on the outside, but that means weatherproofing it.
You have room to put 3 inches of kingspan seconds on the walls and
ceilings.

if its a metal roof then perhaps 80% of heatloss is now through the
roof.

Can you put kingspan on the existing floor then cover that, or would
the door be too inconvenient?

Or thick carpets?

Paraffin heaters give out loads of water vapour H2O
and create loads of condensation
so you'd have to leave a window open or somehow ventilate.

wood burners suck in cold air, and hot out through the chimney.

Wood burners might suck cold air in, but the builder I drink with at
lunchtime swears by them. He has one in his house, one in his garage
and one on his canal boat and each one, he claims, gets the place
toasty warm in short order. One trick I have learned is to get as much
heat into the room by having as much flu in the room as possible.
Looking at you photo, wood burner is at bottom left and the flu exits
at top right.

If you want, I'll pump him about your situation.

Dave
the trick is to have an air iinlet to the burner piped in from outside
so it doesnt suck cold air into the room.

[g]

Good idea, I'll ask him about that and post back.

Dave

[Default] On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:52:24 +0000, a certain chimpanzee,
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere, randomly hit the keyboard
and wrote:

george [dicegeorge] wrote:

The external walls I plan to line in a very traditional manner, with
12mm plasterboard on timber studding, with a vapour barrier against
the wall and the gaps filled with insulation.

shouldnt the vapour barrier be on the warm side?
it sounds like youre putting it against the wall then insulating,
though i may be wrong (again)

Normally yes, but with single brick walls, water penetration is a
problem when it rains, so I'm putting the plastic sheet against the
wall. Perhaps I should put it both sides, just in case. It is cheap enough.

No, you want vapour from inside and any moisture from outside to be
able to permeate through the structure. The studding should have a
notional cavity between it and the wall to prevent moisture and summer
condensation tracking across. Vapour barrier should be on the warm
side of the insulation.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have I strayed"?

Hugo Nebula wrote:
[Default] On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:52:24 +0000, a certain chimpanzee,
"Nightjar \"cpb\"@" "insertmysurnamehere, randomly hit the keyboard
and wrote:

george [dicegeorge] wrote:

The external walls I plan to line in a very traditional manner, with
12mm plasterboard on timber studding, with a vapour barrier against
the wall and the gaps filled with insulation.

shouldnt the vapour barrier be on the warm side?
it sounds like youre putting it against the wall then insulating,
though i may be wrong (again)

Normally yes, but with single brick walls, water penetration is a
problem when it rains, so I'm putting the plastic sheet against the
wall. Perhaps I should put it both sides, just in case. It is cheap enough.

No, you want vapour from inside and any moisture from outside to be
able to permeate through the structure. The studding should have a
notional cavity between it and the wall to prevent moisture and summer
condensation tracking across. Vapour barrier should be on the warm
side of the insulation.

Thanks for that idea; I'd not thought of a cavity. I was thinking of
fixing directly to the wall and protecting the timber from direct water
contact. A ventilated cavity would, however, be perfectly possible if I
add a few airbricks, stand the framing on a DPC and fix the top to the
roof timbers.

Colin Bignell