Hi

I'm going to put up a partition wall in my shed (it's a large stone
building).

Am just at the thinking it through stage !

Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to
attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be attached
to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where it's been
repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd need
to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

Would an angle bracket be best ? something like this
http://tinyurl.com/yk7j7z9

What's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

Thanks.
Ailsa

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:47:00 +0000, HappyHunter wrote:

What's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

Frame fixings. Basically long screws and plugs. You just put the
frame or stud in the right place and drill right through the frame
and into the wall the required depth, alignment is automatic. You can
get hammer in frame fixings drill the hole and hammer the screw and
plug in. No tedious fitting of plug and screwing in of screw...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:47:00 +0000
HappyHunter wrote:

Hi

I'm going to put up a partition wall in my shed (it's a large stone
building).

Am just at the thinking it through stage !

Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to
attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be attached
to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where it's been
repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd need
to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

Would an angle bracket be best ? something like this
http://tinyurl.com/yk7j7z9

What's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

Thanks.
Ailsa

The normal way is with frame fixings, like this:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre.../sd1950/p32429

with brick, packing is still always required to get the stud-end
plumb, but in your case this may be more than usual, so I might drill
for threaded studs,

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre.../sd1960/p93878

resin bond them in,

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre.../sd1960/p29927

(you can still do it through the wood, as the capsule will go down the
through-hole, remember to blow the holes out well)

The key is to end up with a vertical stud in both dimensions regardless
of what the wall does - this means tapered packing from both sides until
it's perfect.

Depends a lot of the strength of the wall you want. A partition is one
thing, but something clad in plywood with heavy shelves is another.

R.

HappyHunter wrote:
Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to
attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be attached
to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where it's been
repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd need
to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

That's how I'd be doing it. You drill the holes through the studs
first, then hold the stud in place while you poke something narrow and
sharp down the holes to mark the position of the holes in the wall, then
drill those. So no problem lining up the holes.

I've been known to use my narrowest narrow masonry bit (ie on my drill)
to mark up the hole positions if it's otherwise hard to see the marks
made on the wall.

(I take it the shed is fully dry etc and there's no worries about the
timber studs/floorplate getting damp?)

David

"HappyHunter" wrote in message
...
Hi

I'm going to put up a partition wall in my shed (it's a large stone
building).

Am just at the thinking it through stage !

Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to attach
the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be attached to stone
walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where it's been repaired in the
past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd need
to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

Would an angle bracket be best ? something like this
http://tinyurl.com/yk7j7z9

What's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

You need rawlplugs and screws or frame fixings which are special screws that
can be screwed directly into brickwork or blocks although not stone AFAIK.
Position your studding against the wall where you want it to be and mark the
studding with a pencil where there's a mortar joint in the wall or else
you'll end up drilling into stone which would be very hard work. Where
there's brick or block you're better off screwing directly into that. Drill
through the studding for each screw hole and line it back up against the
wall. Then mark the wall through each hole with a screw by pushing it in and
giving it a little tap with a hammer. Drill the holes in the wall with a
masonry bit, tap in the rawlplugs and then screw the studding into those.
Alternatively you can have a spare pair of hands hold the studding against
the wall while you drill a pilot hole into it through each stud hole with a
small masonry bit. Then enlarge those to the correct size with a bigger
masonry bit. That's probably a better way of getting the holes exactly in
the right place.

Make sure you don't drill the holes into the masonry too large or the plugs
will be a poor fit. Usually you want a drill bit a tad undersize because
they often make a hole a bit larger than the shank size.

If the wall is really uneven you will need bits of packing behind it to get
the studding level. Once you've done a trial fit you can screw or nail those
to the back of the studding. Ideally you want to either have the frame
screws go right through the packing pieces too or at least have them close
to each screw so you're not bending the studding between the packing pieces
when you tighten it down.
--
Dave Baker

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 11:30:57 -0000, Dave Baker wrote:

Position your studding against the wall where you want it to be and mark
the studding with a pencil where there's a mortar joint in the wall or
else you'll end up drilling into stone which would be very hard work.

I'd go for the block/brick/stone rather than a joint. Even modern
cement mortar is very soft and really hasn't got much holding
capabilty. This building sounds like and old place, the mortar may
well be lime based which is even softer. An SDS drill makes short
work of most building materials even with a 10mm bit that frame
fixings might require.

Packing to make plumb? Vertical so that the new wall is plumb yes but
unless the old wall is really off just have packing so that the studd
isn't stressed over lumps/bumps on the old wall. Remember you can
knock small high points off the wall to get a closer fit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Lobster wrote:


(I take it the shed is fully dry etc and there's no worries about the
timber studs/floorplate getting damp?)

David

Well, hmmmmmm ...

Floor dry. Ceiling (corrugated pvc sheeting), sort of (condesation
problems ... sigh). Walls, mostly and rectifying.I've redone the
pointing internally, but suspect the other side is pretty rotten looking
on one wall (haven't looked yet as it's the neighbours garden wall for
her). Other 3 walls, I'll fix internally as well as externally (that's
what I'm doing just now).

For the partition I think I should assume that the timers that touch
ground/walls could get damp, was thinking of some plastic sheeting
between wood and walls/floor to try and minimise contact with possible damp.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Packing to make plumb? Vertical so that the new wall is plumb yes but
unless the old wall is really off just have packing so that the studd
isn't stressed over lumps/bumps on the old wall. Remember you can
knock small high points off the wall to get a closer fit.


It's a very old building. 3 walls are mainly sandstone. 1 wall rebuilt
in brick with cavity some years ago I guess (so 2 lines of brick with
cavity in between).

One of the sandstone walls has brick repairs in it (quite large
sections, but high up). Another sandstone wall has various "stones" in
it as well, not sandstone blocks or brick, look like big lumps of stone
(which I'd image would be horrendous to drill into, but that's not the
wall the frame is going on anyway).

I think I'd aim to fix the frame to the "best looking" largest blocks I
can see. I've repointed a lot internally so lots of the old pointing is
gone, but I'd guess, scrape beneath that initial layer and there will be
a right mish mash underneath. You know, I found sea shells in the
pointing ! Does sort of look like they maybe visited the beach to get
something to mix with the cement (or more likely lime).

Cheers
Ailsa

HappyHunter wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:

Packing to make plumb? Vertical so that the new wall is plumb yes but
unless the old wall is really off just have packing so that the studd
isn't stressed over lumps/bumps on the old wall. Remember you can
knock small high points off the wall to get a closer fit.


It's a very old building. 3 walls are mainly sandstone. 1 wall rebuilt
in brick with cavity some years ago I guess (so 2 lines of brick with
cavity in between).

One of the sandstone walls has brick repairs in it (quite large
sections, but high up). Another sandstone wall has various "stones" in
it as well, not sandstone blocks or brick, look like big lumps of stone
(which I'd image would be horrendous to drill into, but that's not the
wall the frame is going on anyway).

I think I'd aim to fix the frame to the "best looking" largest blocks I
can see. I've repointed a lot internally so lots of the old pointing is
gone, but I'd guess, scrape beneath that initial layer and there will be
a right mish mash underneath. You know, I found sea shells in the
pointing ! Does sort of look like they maybe visited the beach to get
something to mix with the cement (or more likely lime).

Cheers
Ailsa
If you can get a few fixings into blocks you could consider leaving a
small gap and injecting some expanding builders foam. This stuff not
only fills any gaps but sticks to most surfaces and will add strength to
your first stud. Possibly best to use screws in the noggins and adjacent
studs rather than dislodging anything by hammering.

Bob

In article , HappyHunter
writes
Lobster wrote:


(I take it the shed is fully dry etc and there's no worries about the
timber studs/floorplate getting damp?)

David

Well, hmmmmmm ...

Floor dry. Ceiling (corrugated pvc sheeting), sort of (condesation
problems ... sigh). Walls, mostly and rectifying.I've redone the
pointing internally, but suspect the other side is pretty rotten looking
on one wall (haven't looked yet as it's the neighbours garden wall for
her). Other 3 walls, I'll fix internally as well as externally (that's
what I'm doing just now).

For the partition I think I should assume that the timers that touch
ground/walls could get damp, was thinking of some plastic sheeting
between wood and walls/floor to try and minimise contact with possible damp.

Although it's normal to have the foot plate of the partition on the
floor there's nothing stopping you lifting it off with a few inert
spacers to keep it out of the damp. Impermeable membranes can trap
moisture as well as keep it out.

Another tip is to prefabricate the basic stud partition on the floor and
then lift it into space before fixing top bottom & sides although it
gets a bit heavy once it's 4 or 5m long.

If there's any likelihood of damp or condensation then ply is prob best
for the sheathing.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Lobster wrote:
HappyHunter wrote:
Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to
attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be
attached to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where
it's been repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd
need to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

That's how I'd be doing it. You drill the holes through the studs
first, then hold the stud in place while you poke something narrow and
sharp down the holes to mark the position of the holes in the wall,
then drill those. So no problem lining up the holes.

Far too much like hard work. Hammer fixings are the WTG.


I've been known to use my narrowest narrow masonry bit (ie on my
drill) to mark up the hole positions if it's otherwise hard to see
the marks made on the wall.

You don't need to mark the wall at all.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Baker wrote:
"HappyHunter" wrote in message
...
Hi

I'm going to put up a partition wall in my shed (it's a large stone
building).

Am just at the thinking it through stage !

Anyway, while thinking it through, I wonder what's the best way to
attach the 2 end studs to the wall. So, the 2 end studs will be
attached to stone walls (a mix of sandstone and some brick where
it's been repaired in the past).

I was thinking, of screws, but that could be a bit fiddly since I'd
need to drill a hole in the stone wall then line it up with the wood.

Would an angle bracket be best ? something like this
http://tinyurl.com/yk7j7z9

What's the normal way to attach the end studs to a stone/brick wall ?

You need rawlplugs and screws or frame fixings which are special
screws that can be screwed directly into brickwork or blocks although
not stone AFAIK. Position your studding against the wall where you
want it to be and mark the studding with a pencil where there's a
mortar joint in the wall or else you'll end up drilling into stone
which would be very hard work.

Plugs in motar joins are pants. SDS has no trouble drilling into stone.

Where there's brick or block you're
better off screwing directly into that. Drill through the studding
for each screw hole and line it back up against the wall. Then mark
the wall through each hole with a screw by pushing it in and giving
it a little tap with a hammer. Drill the holes in the wall with a
masonry bit, tap in the rawlplugs and then screw the studding into
those. Alternatively you can have a spare pair of hands hold the
studding against the wall while you drill a pilot hole into it
through each stud hole with a small masonry bit. Then enlarge those
to the correct size with a bigger masonry bit. That's probably a
better way of getting the holes exactly in the right place.


Hold stud against wall, drill right through & into wall, insert hammer
fixing, whack with hammer - repeat as required.

Make sure you don't drill the holes into the masonry too large or the
plugs will be a poor fit. Usually you want a drill bit a tad
undersize because they often make a hole a bit larger than the shank
size.

Don't know where this myth comes from. If Rawlplug or Fischer say 'drill a
6mm hole' they will have allowed for that.

If the wall is really uneven you will need bits of packing behind it
to get the studding level. Once you've done a trial fit you can screw
or nail those to the back of the studding. Ideally you want to either
have the frame screws go right through the packing pieces too or at
least have them close to each screw so you're not bending the
studding between the packing pieces when you tighten it down.

Or
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/35890/...ed-Pack-of-100



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"HappyHunter" wrote in message
...
snip
You know, I found sea shells in the pointing ! Does sort of look like they
maybe visited the beach to get something to mix with the cement (or more
likely lime).

Around here (Suffolk) we are on Red Crag (above London Clay) and the sand is
very shelly.
Older properties (1930's) tend to have mortar using the local sand including
the shells.

Nowadays they tend to wash and grade everything so I haven't seen any shells
in the sand at the B&P Merchants.

Cheers

Dave R