This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a generator
set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank of these
batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out, they are more efficient as there is no
state change inefficiencies when charging or discharging.

Other applications? Planes of course. CHP (cogen) in homes? Roof mounted PV
cells can charge them up and use the energy later.

Mass production will get the prices down. They could be retrofitted to
extising hybrid cars to transform them

-------
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.
The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.
.. Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
.. Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in 10 Minutes, 90% in 5
Minutes
.. Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-Discharge Cycles
.. Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
.. High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
.. Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
.. Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market segments.
Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety. Additional
packs are under development.

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs
is charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a
generator set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank
of these batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.
[snip]

Within easy reach of those who can afford the very high prices. It's
likely the batteries will be so expensive they are rented rather than
bought. Making any savings in fuel only running costs rather pointless.

But then you never have had an concept of value for money - just belive
every advert you read.

--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Within easy reach of those who can afford the very high prices. It's
likely the batteries will be so expensive they are rented rather than
bought. Making any savings in fuel only running costs rather pointless.

But then you never have had an concept of value for money - just belive
every advert you read.

I recall seeing some published research about 18 months ago, that I
think was the basis for this advance.

It was a small change in Li-ion chemistry (one that had been
disregarded many years earlier because the voltage per cell was
slightly lower) - but, new research showed that the chemical-structure
mechanisms that impeded current flow during charging, were very much
reduced.

At the time, the researchers pointed out how similar it was to
existing manufacturing processes, and the tooling costs should be much
more modest than other process changes.

However - there's still other problems to overcome - fast charging
(e.g. 10 minutes) of vehicle-sized batteries requires very large
currents, something around 1000A at 400V.

That's both a problem in terms of infrastructure development, and if
it proves popular - electricity demands on the producers.

Does anyone know if this advance is Toshiba's property, or public
research?

wrote in message
...

Within easy reach of those who can afford the very high prices. It's
likely the batteries will be so expensive they are rented rather than
bought. Making any savings in fuel only running costs rather pointless.

But then you never have had an concept of value for money - just belive
every advert you read.

I recall seeing some published research about 18 months ago, that I
think was the basis for this advance.

It was a small change in Li-ion chemistry (one that had been
disregarded many years earlier because the voltage per cell was
slightly lower) - but, new research showed that the chemical-structure
mechanisms that impeded current flow during charging, were very much
reduced.

At the time, the researchers pointed out how similar it was to
existing manufacturing processes, and the tooling costs should be much
more modest than other process changes.

However - there's still other problems to overcome - fast charging
(e.g. 10 minutes) of vehicle-sized batteries requires very large
currents, something around 1000A at 400V.

That's both a problem in terms of infrastructure development, and if
it proves popular - electricity demands on the producers.

Does anyone know if this advance is Toshiba's property, or public
research?

Toshibas. Charging points could have banks of supercapacitors dug into the
ground - like petrol tanks are, to charge up slowly from the grid, store and
sell off to cars. The same as the antiquated Victorian water distribution
system we have that serves us, because people store water in tanks and use
it when needed, topping the tank up slowly.

The first batch is never cheap. If the engines on generator sets in
series-hybrid, like the Chevy Volt, can be made smaller and cheaper and
wheel hub motors are used eliminating differentials and shafts and CV
joints, then the higher battery cost can be absorbed. Expect to see full
EVs in matter of years - if the auto giants will allow it. Do a Google on
"who killed the electric car?" On Youtube in 9 sections. Enlightening.
Worth watching as they crushed 800 GM EV1s, including a turbine driven
generator series-hybrid EV1, that did 120mpg. Then Bush states that hydrogen
and fuel cells is the way, which takes oil to produce, lots of it and the
fuel cells do not work.

The US FAA is killing the electric aeroplane, outlawing it. As the final
drive of the Chevy Volt (Vx Ampera) is mechanically disconnected. This
entails that the engine on the generator set can be a more efficient engine
that optimises as a constant speed or narrow speed range. Preferable engines
that few reciprocating parts to give smoothness and quietness. Auxiliary
engines with rotary valves were used in Sorts Sunderland Flying Boats in
WW2. The Rolls Royce Grecy engine, the successor to the Merlin Spitfire
engine, provided an amazing amount of HP in such a small 2-stroke package -
abandoned as jet planes were the future. Engines were made and tested and it
worked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Crecy

What looks promising, but requiring development is the Rotary Atkinson Cycle
engine. Smooth,small and quiet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinso...n-cycle_engine

Now, this can apply to a two engined plane. Small very high power-weight
ration electric motors turning props on the wings with a smooth, optimum
tuned, constant speed combustion engine turning a generator with a battery
buffer in the fuselage. The generator set can be positioned for optimum
weight balance. The overall setup will save overall weight. Like a The
batteries can be used a reserve to get the plane 40 or 50 miles. If the
engine fails the batteries take you down safely.

Or for full backup, and electric assist. Have a small rotary Atkinson cycle
engine turning the prop, that has an electric motor on the shaft. The
electric motor assists in take off and if the combustion engine fails it
reverts to battery electric power. Having an electric assist mean the
combustion engine need not be so big as it is used for cruising and topping
up the battery.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10440758-1.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykTcXyUSCM4

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/4330186.html

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs
is charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a
generator set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank
of these batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.
[snip]

Within

F**k off as you are an idiotic plantpot.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Charging points could have banks of supercapacitors dug into the
ground - like petrol tanks are, to charge up slowly from the grid, store
and sell off to cars.

Storing AC? Now that's a breakthrough. Or simply add the electronics to
convert to DC and back again. Or equip the car to accept either. With two
sets of plugs and sockets. Then of course hope the capacitors have had
time to charge before needed. Great with all those cars chasing an
inadequate supply.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it
needs is charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine
on a generator set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a
large bank of these batteries and the combustion engine will rarely
cut in.
[snip]

Within

F**k off as you are an idiotic plantpot.

Happy to be a realistic plantpot who doesn't just believe every single
advert. Got a new Prius yet? They've finally made one that just about does
what it claims. Quite a good car apart from the looks.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Charging points could have banks of supercapacitors dug into the
ground - like petrol tanks are, to charge up slowly from the grid, store
and sell off to cars.

Storing

Please f**k off as you are a plantpot.

Dave Plowman (News)
wibbled on Friday 29 January 2010 17:35


Happy to be a realistic plantpot who doesn't just believe every single
advert. Got a new Prius yet? They've finally made one that just about does
what it claims. Quite a good car apart from the looks.


I wonder if he's been confusing Prius with Priapus all these years...

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Charging points could have banks of supercapacitors dug into the
ground - like petrol tanks are, to charge up slowly from the grid, store
and sell off to cars.

Storing AC? Now that's a breakthrough. Or simply add the electronics to
convert to DC and back again. Or equip the car to accept either. With two
sets of plugs and sockets. Then of course hope the capacitors have had
time to charge before needed. Great with all those cars chasing an
inadequate supply.

You could put a charging point for one of his electric planes on top of
this

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archive...ai%20tower.jpg



--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Charging points could have banks of supercapacitors dug into the
ground - like petrol tanks are, to charge up slowly from the grid, store
and sell off to cars.

Storing AC? Now that's a breakthrough. Or simply add the electronics to
convert to DC and back again. Or equip the car to accept either. With two
sets of plugs and sockets. Then of course hope the capacitors have had
time to charge before needed. Great with all those cars chasing an
inadequate supply.

You could put a charging point for one of his electric planes on top of
this

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archive...ai%20tower.jpg

Fantastic Maxie, fantastic!!! With a mind like yours you are wasted. Truly
wasted.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Doctor Drivel
wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it
needs is charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine
on a generator set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a
large bank of these batteries and the combustion engine will rarely
cut in.
[snip]

Within

F**k off as you are an idiotic plantpot.

Happy

Please f**k off as you are a plantpot.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News)
wibbled on Friday 29 January 2010 17:35

Happy to be a realistic plantpot who doesn't just believe every single
advert. Got a new Prius yet? They've finally made one that just about
does
what it claims. Quite a good car apart from the looks.

I wonder

Don't wonder. You just do not have it.

On 29 Jan, 14:39, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a generator
set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank of these
batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out, they are more efficient as there is no
state change inefficiencies when charging or discharging.

Other applications? Planes of course. CHP (cogen) in homes? Roof mounted PV
cells can charge them up and use the energy later.

Mass production will get the prices down. *They could be retrofitted to
extising hybrid cars to transform them

-------
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.
The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.
. Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
. Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in 10 Minutes, 90% in 5
Minutes
. Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-Discharge Cycles
. Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
. High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
. Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
. Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market segments.
Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety. Additional
packs are under development.

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

Rob

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jan, 14:39, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a generator
set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank of these
batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather
have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out, they are more efficient as there is no
state change inefficiencies when charging or discharging.

Other applications? Planes of course. CHP (cogen) in homes? Roof mounted
PV
cells can charge them up and use the energy later.

Mass production will get the prices down. They could be retrofitted to
extising hybrid cars to transform them

-------
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.
The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.
. Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
. Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in 10 Minutes, 90% in 5
Minutes
. Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-Discharge Cycles
. Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
. High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
. Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
. Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus
on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market
segments.
Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety.
Additional
packs are under development.

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.

robgraham wrote:
On 29 Jan, 14:39, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. Use a specifically designed engine on a generator
set, like a small rotary Atkinson cycle, and use a large bank of these
batteries and the combustion engine will rarely cut in.

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out, they are more efficient as there is no
state change inefficiencies when charging or discharging.

Other applications? Planes of course. CHP (cogen) in homes? Roof mounted PV
cells can charge them up and use the energy later.

Mass production will get the prices down. They could be retrofitted to
extising hybrid cars to transform them

-------
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.
The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.
. Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under Extreme Physical Duress
. Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full Recharge in 10 Minutes, 90% in 5
Minutes
. Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Rapid
Charge-Discharge Cycles
. Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85% Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
. High Output Performance - Equivalent Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
. Superb Low-Temperature Performance - Excels at Temperatures as Low
as -30°C
. Proven Production - Produced on a State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market segments.
Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety. Additional
packs are under development.

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


No, its very common. But the richest and cheapest ores are in China.
not that much elsewhere.



Rob

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

No, its very common. But the richest and cheapest ores are in China.


Are they? Look around.

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.


Lithium comes from salt?

Killfile.

The original science behind this, from MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/b...rial-0311.html

On 30/01/2010 01:03, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

No, its very common. But the richest and cheapest ores are in China.


Are they? Look around.

According to Radio 4 (recent program of which I heard only part) and in
agreement with Wiki:

"The largest reserve base of lithium is in the Salar de Uyuni area of
Bolivia, which has 5.4 million tons."

Country †“ Production †“ Reserves †“ Reserve base †“
Argentina 3,200 Not available Not available
Australia 6,900 170,000 220,000
Bolivia 0 0 5,400,000
Brazil 180 190,000 910,000
Canada 710 180,000 360,000
Chile 12,000 3,000,000 3,000,000
People's Republic
of China 3,500 540,000 1,100,000
Portugal 570 Not available Not available
United States Withheld 38,000 410,000
Zimbabwe 300 23,000 27,000
World total 27,400 4,100,000 11,000,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

And the Bolivian reserves are concentrating the minds of the worlds
finest on how best to make a fortune out of the country. And us.

The problem seems not to be the actual quantity of lithium in the earth,
but commercial extraction.

--
Rod

Doctor Drivel wrote:

[Rob}

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

Far better to rely on Wikipedia than anything Dribble comes up with.

Comes from salt and you are wrong.

Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Visions of Dribble trying to transmute table salt (sodium chloride)
into lithium chloride

In article ,
newshound wrote:

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.


Lithium comes from salt?

Killfile.

You shouldn't killfile dribble. He gives some of the best 'laughs' of all
time.

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

--
*A dog's not just for Christmas, it's alright on a Friday night too*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:36:18 +0000
Roger Chapman wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

[Rob}

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

Far better to rely on Wikipedia than anything Dribble comes up with.

Comes from salt and you are wrong.

Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Visions of Dribble trying to transmute table salt (sodium chloride)
into lithium chloride


I rather suspect he meant salt-water. I expect there are significant
quantities of Lithium salts in the sea, just as there is Magnesium
and Potassium. Whether it is economically extractable....

R.

Rod wrote:
On 30/01/2010 01:03, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.

No, its very common. But the richest and cheapest ores are in China.


Are they? Look around.

According to Radio 4 (recent program of which I heard only part) and in
agreement with Wiki:

"The largest reserve base of lithium is in the Salar de Uyuni area of
Bolivia, which has 5.4 million tons."

Country â€*€œ Production â€*€œ Reserves â€*€œ Reserve base â€*€œ
Argentina 3,200 Not available Not available
Australia 6,900 170,000 220,000
Bolivia 0 0 5,400,000
Brazil 180 190,000 910,000
Canada 710 180,000 360,000
Chile 12,000 3,000,000 3,000,000
People's Republic
of China 3,500 540,000 1,100,000
Portugal 570 Not available Not available
United States Withheld 38,000 410,000
Zimbabwe 300 23,000 27,000
World total 27,400 4,100,000 11,000,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

And the Bolivian reserves are concentrating the minds of the worlds
finest on how best to make a fortune out of the country. And us.

The problem seems not to be the actual quantity of lithium in the earth,
but commercial extraction.

Indeed. I said richest and cheapest, not most plentiful.


Seawater has billions of tons of uranium in it, and IIRC other things as
well, but at concentrations so low as to make it a very expensive item
to extract.

Of more concern is the rare earth supply which is also concentrated in
China.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.


Lithium comes from salt?

Killfile.

You shouldn't killfile dribble. He gives some of the best 'laughs' of all
time.

Lithium in Dribbles world does come in salt form, its in his medication.

Its also in salt form in batteries.

TheOldFellow wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:36:18 +0000
Roger Chapman wrote:

Doctor Drivel wrote:

[Rob}

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.
Far better to rely on Wikipedia than anything Dribble comes up with.

Comes from salt and you are wrong.
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Visions of Dribble trying to transmute table salt (sodium chloride)
into lithium chloride


I rather suspect he meant salt-water. I expect there are significant
quantities of Lithium salts in the sea, just as there is Magnesium
and Potassium. Whether it is economically extractable....

R.

MM. the words reserves are in billions of tons. So there is enough for
at least a billion electric cars.

And of course if we get fusion reactors working, could probably make the
stuff ;-)

Doctor Drivel wrote:

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out,

Bzzt wrong. It's impossible to maintain a static charge across the
plates of a capacitor without leading to an inevitable breakdown of the
dielectric. The time taken can vary depending on the nature of the
dielectric but it does degrade and the capacitor will wear out.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Indeed. I said richest and cheapest, not most plentiful.

You were still wrong.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

That was the science degree of which he was so proud that he refused to
identify the class of degree or the university that conferred the
degree? Umm and the one for which he couldn't remember the subject, the
syllabus, the examination schedule or even a single lecture that he
attended?

TheOldFellow wrote:

I rather suspect he meant salt-water. I expect there are significant
quantities of Lithium salts in the sea, just as there is Magnesium
and Potassium. Whether it is economically extractable....

I suspect he simply didn't understand what he Googled for. Although the
richest ores are pegmatites, the majority of available Lithium in thw
world is present in salt pans and brines. These salt pans hold Lithium
chloride and Potassium chloride in variable ratios tending to be about
40:1 to 100:1 K:Li.

The Bolivian reserves mentioned elsewhere in this thread at Salar de
Uyuni are possibly underestimated since the true depth of the salt
deposits has not yet been reported.

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

That was the science degree of which he was so proud that he refused to
identify the class of degree or the university that conferred the
degree? Umm and the one for which he couldn't remember the subject, the
syllabus, the examination schedule or even a single lecture that he
attended?


Typical dribble. Claims something - then later shows he knows nothing of
the subject other than from adverts or Googling.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel"
saying something like:

Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT.

Christ, not another battery acronym.
How to pronounce this one - 'scibit'?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Steve Firth)
saying something like:

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

That was the science degree of which he was so proud that he refused to
identify the class of degree or the university that conferred the
degree? Umm and the one for which he couldn't remember the subject, the
syllabus, the examination schedule or even a single lecture that he
attended?

www.degrees_for_cash.com

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
newshound wrote:

Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.


Lithium comes from salt?

Killfile.

You

You must f**k off as you are a total plantpot.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
Now I may have got this wrong, but I understood that there was only
one ore source of lithium in the world and it's not infinitely large.


Comes from salt and you are wrong.

Lithium comes from salt?

Killfile.

You shouldn't killfile dribble. He gives some of the best 'laughs' of all
time.

Lithium in Dribbles world does come in salt form, its in his medication.

Its also in salt form in batteries.

This went to snotty uni. That says it all.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially

You must f**k off as you are a total plantpot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness
to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

That was the science degree of which he was so proud that he refused to
identify the class of degree or the university that conferred the
degree? Umm and the one for which he couldn't remember the subject, the
syllabus, the examination schedule or even a single lecture that he
attended?

Typical

You must f**k off as you are a total plantpot.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Roger Chapman wrote:
Even after 10 years or so I am still amazed at Dribble's willingness to
expose his absolute ignorance of basic science to all and sundry.

Especially when he claimed to have a science degree...

That

This pervo needs tagging.

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

They claim the discharge is the same as supercapacitors. I would rather
have
supercapacitors with a high energy density storage than a battery.
Supercapacitors do not wear out,

Bzzt

This pervo needs tagging.