This letter never seems to have arrived in the group the first time --
trying again. Sorry if you have seen it twice now!

Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher that stopped working
properly... just before Christmas.

When I press the button to start the cycle, the machine drains and
then fills as normal and then -- instead of kicking into that rhythmic
swishing sound -- it just sits there in dead silence. After 15 minutes
it might fill again, and if left might fill yet again after another
while. But it never kicks into wash mode. It does this even on the
simple no-heat, pre-wash setting.

I checked the heater, it looks perfectly fine and is not open-circuit.

I checked the thermistor, fine, it correctly changes resistance
when it's in hot water.

Everything looks pretty much perfect, after all it's only three
years old.

The main circulation pump looks pristine, and so does its
capacitor. But when I measured with a multi-meter across the terminals
of the pump (insulated crocodile clips!), I discovered that at no time
does it receive any voltage.

I decided to replace the controller card (only £30) and today I
find it still has exactly the same problem with the new controller
installed. Argh!

So what is the real culprit? Can anyone help? I know there is a
circulation sensor, a thermistor, and various door safety and overfill
doodads but I am not sure what exactly would cause this particular problem.

I would be grateful for anyone's experience and expertise: I don't
want to be defeated by this thing!

With many thanks,

Sandy

The Wise One
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 22:20

This letter never seems to have arrived in the group the first time --
trying again. Sorry if you have seen it twice now!

Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher that stopped working
properly... just before Christmas.

When I press the button to start the cycle, the machine drains and
then fills as normal and then -- instead of kicking into that rhythmic
swishing sound -- it just sits there in dead silence. After 15 minutes
it might fill again, and if left might fill yet again after another
while. But it never kicks into wash mode. It does this even on the
simple no-heat, pre-wash setting.

I checked the heater, it looks perfectly fine and is not
open-circuit.

I checked the thermistor, fine, it correctly changes resistance
when it's in hot water.

Everything looks pretty much perfect, after all it's only three
years old.

The main circulation pump looks pristine, and so does its
capacitor. But when I measured with a multi-meter across the terminals
of the pump (insulated crocodile clips!), I discovered that at no time
does it receive any voltage.

I decided to replace the controller card (only £30) and today I
find it still has exactly the same problem with the new controller
installed. Argh!

So what is the real culprit? Can anyone help? I know there is a
circulation sensor, a thermistor, and various door safety and overfill
doodads but I am not sure what exactly would cause this particular
problem.

I would be grateful for anyone's experience and expertise: I don't
want to be defeated by this thing!

With many thanks,

Sandy

wild stabs in the dark

I thought about the water level sensor (machine thinks there's no water) but
as it apparently fills correctly, that suggests "a" level sensor is working.
Could it be the main sensor has failed but a backup one (or a second sensing
position on the main sensor) is preventing overfilling (don't know those
machines, so I don't know if there is any validity in this idea).

Have you tested the level switch which might be in several forms to see if
it's doing what you would expect?

Are there any relays on a supplimentary board or box somewhere?; thinking
the controller is doing its stuff, but the relay that actually applies power
to the pump has died?

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Tim W wrote:
The Wise One
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 22:20

This letter never seems to have arrived in the group the first time --
trying again. Sorry if you have seen it twice now!

Hi,

I have a Beko "DE 2541 FX" slimline dishwasher that stopped working
properly... just before Christmas.

When I press the button to start the cycle, the machine drains and
then fills as normal and then -- instead of kicking into that rhythmic
swishing sound -- it just sits there in dead silence. After 15 minutes
it might fill again, and if left might fill yet again after another
while. But it never kicks into wash mode. It does this even on the
simple no-heat, pre-wash setting.

I checked the heater, it looks perfectly fine and is not
open-circuit.

I checked the thermistor, fine, it correctly changes resistance
when it's in hot water.

Everything looks pretty much perfect, after all it's only three
years old.

The main circulation pump looks pristine, and so does its
capacitor. But when I measured with a multi-meter across the terminals
of the pump (insulated crocodile clips!), I discovered that at no time
does it receive any voltage.

I decided to replace the controller card (only £30) and today I
find it still has exactly the same problem with the new controller
installed. Argh!

So what is the real culprit? Can anyone help? I know there is a
circulation sensor, a thermistor, and various door safety and overfill
doodads but I am not sure what exactly would cause this particular
problem.

I would be grateful for anyone's experience and expertise: I don't
want to be defeated by this thing!

With many thanks,

Sandy

wild stabs in the dark

I thought about the water level sensor (machine thinks there's no water) but
as it apparently fills correctly, that suggests "a" level sensor is working.
Could it be the main sensor has failed but a backup one (or a second sensing
position on the main sensor) is preventing overfilling (don't know those
machines, so I don't know if there is any validity in this idea).

Have you tested the level switch which might be in several forms to see if
it's doing what you would expect?

Are there any relays on a supplimentary board or box somewhere?; thinking
the controller is doing its stuff, but the relay that actually applies power
to the pump has died?


My intuition says it is some sensor reading not working that is
stalling the dishwasher programme.

The big problem with Beko is that there aren't any servicing
manuals made available. (An operator at the UK Beko servicing place --
I think -- kindly let me understand that they *used to* make service
manuals available, but no longer.) So I have only a very nebulous idea
of what sensors and extra doodads the machine has, chiefly from
disconnecting it, turning it on it's side and taking off the bottom plate.

I have "The Dishwasher Manual" by Graham Dixon (Haynes
Publishing). It's not as helpfully written as I had hoped, but at least
it encourages one to realize that, yes, all these machines are basically
the same and fairly straightforward beasts.

However I have obtained the circuit diagram of my Beko dishwasher,
the logic of which was designed by the Turkish company 'Arcelik'. I've
scanned and uploaded the diagram he

http://i49.tinypic.com/28r1thw.jpg

Unfortunately, I can only partly understand it. I think it doesn't
help that at some stage, the character-encoding of the labels got
screwed up. (O digital Tower of Babel that we live in!) I'm guessing
that during design it was all Turkish, but now it's...not. Also, many
of the symbols in the diagram, I don't recognize.

Counting the pins from left to right, here's what I *think* is attached
to each:

pin 1 : main power button switch
pin 2 : motor with capacitor? dunno.
pin 3 : pump motor
pin 4 : motor (without pump?? a "load"?)
pin 5 : pump motor
pins 8-9 : God knows what
pin 11 : fuse, water-heater, normally-on microswitch
pin 12 : a normally-off safety microswitch (?)
pins 13-14: ???
pins 15-16: a normally-off safety microswitch (?)
pins 17-18: ???
pins 19-21: Thermistor circuit

Mysteries:
At the low left of the diagram, what is the symbol marked '6?
In the middle of the diagram, is the thing labeled &2 a two way switch?

I think if I knew these things, it would help to connect (in my
understanding) the diagram and the actual wires and devices I see dotted
around the machine. Maybe also it will confirm your suspicions/theory
about my fault?

I haven't been able to find this information about the circuit
diagram anywhere on the web, which is why I've now written here with it,
and put it up -- hopefully, someone who knows this stuff will be able to
help fill it in, and so it'll be useful to other people with these kinds
of problems in future...

... and of course, if it stops me having to wash up by hand every
day, that would be WONDERFUL!!!

With many thanks (again),

Sandy

Usenet wrote:
Is this how it's meant to feel, when you push the cooling blades
around? The resistance is constant all the way around, so maybe this is
normal...

...All advice welcome!

Dear Usenet,

The dishwasher is operating normally again!

I screwed the back plate back on, and connected the dishwasher up
again to the water input and output. I ran it on the 15 minute pre-wash
no heat cycle, fine. Then a 30 minute, 35 degree heater cycle with
three changes of water, fine. The rotating arms took a while to clear
themselves of little dried cloggy bits, but at the end they were going
round like they always have. Swishing again!

What a journey I feel I've been, through! It so happened that
there wasn't anything wrong with the dishwasher per se; the fault in my
case was the slowly gunked-up water supply all along. But it has been
incredibly worth it -- taking off the panels, seeing the workings,
testing with the multimeter, and looking over the whole works. Now the
dishwasher, washing machine, power wash, and eh even the power drill,
and jigsaw, and anything else, are not mysterious black boxes anymore!

-

A note about Haynes' "The Dishwasher Manual" by Graham Dixon:

This book leaves much to be desired. It is not up to the standard
of the world famous car manuals upon which Haynes' reputation rests. OK,
the Haynes label gave me the initial encouragement to make me think I
could repair my dishwasher, but beyond pictures of actual sub-components
(most of which come from Dixon's earlier "The Washing Machine Manual"),
the book hasn't been much help. More of a hindrance really. To be
honest, the book seems not even half finished. The index of only
several dozen entries doesn't fill a single page. Many of the diagrams
have no labels and are not given a reference number. Repeated
photographs of the same component, but with different comments, are
seemingly there to bemuse the reader and help pad out the book. There
are many infuriating chapters of one, or one and a half patronizing
pages. The flow charts (speaking as a programmer myself) -- which are
meant to help organize complexity -- are instead there to make the
simple seem more complex, are all badly titled, unlabelled, completely
moronic and waste yet more pages. And here's another what for: the
chapter on pumps and motors is all about the goddamed potted physics,
and the pros and cons of various approaches to motor design. No mention
of how easily they can seize up, or how to go about unsticking them.
There's a corporate engineering drawing of a "generic rotor" with
cooling blades floating in space, but without anything else, no context!
Where's the explanation on how to test if the motor's working, in
situ? Or about taking care when manipulating big hose clips, or
lubricating the inside lip of the hose with a smear of washing up liquid
when putting it back on, of NOT using grease, which will corrode the
rubber, or checking out the auricle's side exit first?

I hope someone in the near future writes a *real* Dishwasher Repair
and Maintenance Manual. These are, after all, increasingly the times
when we're going to badly need one.

With kind regards and best wishes to all,

Sandy

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:56:50 +0000, Usenet wrote:

Usenet wrote:
Is this how it's meant to feel, when you push the cooling blades
around? The resistance is constant all the way around, so maybe this is
normal...

...All advice welcome!

Dear Usenet,

The dishwasher is operating normally again!


Sandy

Congrats.
I fixed my DW a while ago. The float that checks the water level was
caked in grease so it wasn't filling with enough water.
I felt dead chuffed once it was working.

Just thought I'd mention that in uk.rec.cars.maintenance Haynes is
sometimes referred to as "The Book of Lies"
Their reputation has declined over the last few years.