I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",
The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?
Thank you.

In article ,
"Stewart" writes:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",

Transmission and processing delays (more obvious with digital than
analogue) would not prevent it still counting as live.

I recall reading that "live" in this context means receiving any
part of a programme whilst the programme is still being broadcast,
but I don't know where that came from.

The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?

I think you have to make sure you don't receive a program until
the broadcast of it has finished.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:
In article ,
"Stewart" writes:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",

Transmission and processing delays (more obvious with digital than
analogue) would not prevent it still counting as live.

I recall reading that "live" in this context means receiving any
part of a programme whilst the programme is still being broadcast,
but I don't know where that came from.

Quick browse of the tv licensing website says much the same; for it
not to count as "live", you mustn't start receiving it until after
the broadcast has finished. (Also note that it's the receiving of it
and not the listening to it which needs a license.)

The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?

I think you have to make sure you don't receive a program until
the broadcast of it has finished.


--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Stewart wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",
The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?

endlessly discussed elsewhere.

The conclusion being that 'live' means that the WHOLE program is not
buffered anywhere. Or in practical terms, you cant halfway through go
back and watch it from the start.

In short, technically, you need a license.




Thank you.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:

I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as
using bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if
I have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I
must buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live". My digital radio
plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so the digital
radio cannot be "live".

Mere sophistry. Still "live" although the use of the word "live" is a
mistake by whoever used it!

I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna
New Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital
radio and later still on TV so that was not "live", The news and weather
from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means? Thank you.

The TV licensing site says:

"You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV
as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a
computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder."

So, "as it's being broadcast" is the critical thing. The slight digital
delay wouldn't count unless you tried with an expensive lawyer.

Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

Video recorders and digital recorders like Sky+
You need a licence if you record TV as it's broadcast, whether that's
on a conventional video recorder or digital box.

However, you dont need to be covered by a licence if youre only using
€˜on-demand services to watch programmes after they have gone out on TV.
So, you need a licence to watch any channel live online, but you wouldnt
need one to use BBC iPlayer to catch up on an episode of a programme you
missed, for example.

Mobile phones
A licence covers you to watch TV as it's broadcast on a mobile phone,
whether you're at home or out and about. If you are covered by a valid
licence at the address where you live, you will be licensed to use any
device powered solely by its own internal batteries outside the home too."



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.


The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.


The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Nonsense.

Yellow wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Nonsense.


No, true.

The burden of proof is on you to show that the requisite plugins are not
installed etc etc.

The whole license system and legislation is possibly nonsense, but that
statement about the legal position is not.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Yellow wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Nonsense.
No, true.

The burden of proof is on you to show that the requisite plugins are not
installed etc etc.

The whole license system and legislation is possibly nonsense, but that
statement about the legal position is not.

Unless you have a stream of data containg a live TV program being fired at
your computer, and the software on your computer is decodng it, then your
computer in not capable of recieving live TV.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Yellow wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Nonsense.
No, true.

Is so.

The burden of proof is on you to show that the requisite plugins are not
installed etc etc.

That is nonsense because any "out the box" computer will be able to
"receive" TV without additional software because a browser and flash is all
you need.

The whole license system and legislation is possibly nonsense, but that
statement about the legal position is not.

Lots of rubbish is written about whether or not you need a TV licence but if
you are not "watching live" TV, simply put, you do not.

"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.


The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.


Not sure which law you are referring to, but the
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004
includes
Definitions for the purposes of the Communications Act 2003 and the Wireless
Telegraphy Act 1967

Meaning of "television receiver"
9. - (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television
receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving
(whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television
programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other
purpose.

So it's clear that it's the *purpose* for the apparatus rather than the
*capability* that's important.

So, with respect, I think you are in error.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:19:47 -0000, "OG"
wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.


The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.


Not sure which law you are referring to, but the
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004
includes
Definitions for the purposes of the Communications Act 2003 and the Wireless
Telegraphy Act 1967

Meaning of "television receiver"
9. - (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television
receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving
(whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television
programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other
purpose.

So it's clear that it's the *purpose* for the apparatus rather than the
*capability* that's important.

So, with respect, I think you are in error.


Last September I wrote to TV licensing and informed them that I would
not be renewing my licence.
I asked if there was a requirement to place my tv "somwhere" in the
house.

I received a reply from them saying that I would get a visit from then
in the future and after that I would not be contacted for three years.
No visiit yet.
I use the tv for PS2 and DVD


Mike P

Mike wrote:

I use the tv for PS2 and DVD

Just be careful. If the tuner is still operating (and it is likely to be doing
so) when playing, then they can detect that and you will be up in court.

-- JJ

Mike wrote:

Last September I wrote to TV licensing and informed them that I would
not be renewing my licence.
I asked if there was a requirement to place my tv "somwhere" in the
house.

I received a reply from them saying that I would get a visit from then
in the future and after that I would not be contacted for three years.
No visiit yet.
I use the tv for PS2 and DVD

Unless they turn up with a warrant, they have no right to inspect
anything and you do not have to let them into your home.

On Jan 12, 7:19*pm, "OG" wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message

...





"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:

Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
* *You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Not sure which law you are referring to, but the
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004
includes
Definitions for the purposes of the Communications Act 2003 and the Wireless
Telegraphy Act 1967

Meaning of "television receiver"
* * *9. *- (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television
receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving
(whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television
programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other
purpose.

So it's clear that it's the *purpose* for the apparatus rather than the
*capability* that's important.

So, with respect, I think you are in error.

By your own quote "apparatus installed or used for the purpose of
receiving", just installing it is sufficient. You don't have to
actually use it.

MBQ

Man at B&Q
wibbled on Wednesday 13 January 2010 12:09


By your own quote "apparatus installed or used for the purpose of
receiving", just installing it is sufficient. You don't have to
actually use it.

MBQ

I thought my quote from TVLA was the end to the argument - they clearly said
"watch". Why are we still debating?

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Man at B&Q :
On Jan 12, 7:19*pm, "OG" wrote:
"Fredxx" wrote in message

...





"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:

Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
* *You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.

The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

Not sure which law you are referring to, but the
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004
includes
Definitions for the purposes of the Communications Act 2003 and the Wireless
Telegraphy Act 1967

Meaning of "television receiver"
* * *9. *- (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television
receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving
(whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television
programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other
purpose.

So it's clear that it's the *purpose* for the apparatus rather than the
*capability* that's important.

So, with respect, I think you are in error.

By your own quote "apparatus installed or used for the purpose of
receiving", just installing it is sufficient.

That means it qualifies as a "television receiver" for the purposes of
the act. It doesn't necessarily mean you need a licence for it.

You don't have to
actually use it.

Oh yes you do.

--
Mike Barnes

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:19 pm, "OG" wrote:


Meaning of "television receiver"
9. - (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television
receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving
(whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television
programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other
purpose.

So it's clear that it's the *purpose* for the apparatus rather than the
*capability* that's important.

So, with respect, I think you are in error.

By your own quote "apparatus installed or used for the purpose of
receiving", just installing it is sufficient. You don't have to
actually use it.

No, that's why it says "installed or used for the purpose of receiving..."

If it's not installed or used for that specific purpose, then it doesn't
need a licence.

Fredxx wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 10:36:27 +0000, Stewart wrote:


Also useful...

"Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the
same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the
Channel Islands.


The law uses the words similar to "capable of receiving broadcasts".
Therefore if there are live broadcast on the 'net, your system will be
capable of receiving then, and hence you theoretically need a licence.

That is multicast - not strictly broadcast.

Mobile phones
A licence covers you to watch TV as it's broadcast on a mobile phone,
whether you're at home or out and about. If you are covered by a valid
licence at the address where you live, you will be licensed to use any
device powered solely by its own internal batteries outside the home too."


You might want to actually charge the phone while still streaming. Heaven forfend.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Stewart wrote:

I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",
The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?
Thank you.


AIUI the programmes go out in what is called 'transport stream' (.ts)
format. For subsequent replay, they have to be reprocessed into the
relevant file formats (mpeg, etc), and they are not processed until
the live programmes have finished. The delay in doing this is about 1
to 2 hours.

Stewart wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.

I suspect this refers to TV cards in the computer. Being able simply to access
the Internet does not require a TV licence.

Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".

That *is* live. Just because there is an encoding delay, that does not make it
any less "live".

I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",

Sorry - live again.

The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.

Live.

Does anyone know what "live" really means?

Not recorded and broadcast at a substantially later time.

Wow, I never expected so many replies. From what you all say then if I
watch the news or weather on my computer I had better get myself a licence.
Thankfully I am almost 75 so then I think it will be free.


"Jason" wrote in message
...
Stewart wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if
I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I
must
buy a licence.

I suspect this refers to TV cards in the computer. Being able simply to
access
the Internet does not require a TV licence.

Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio
so
the digital radio cannot be "live".

That *is* live. Just because there is an encoding delay, that does not
make it
any less "live".

I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio
and
later still on TV so that was not "live",

Sorry - live again.

The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those
on a
tv.

Live.

Does anyone know what "live" really means?

Not recorded and broadcast at a substantially later time.

"Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wow, I never expected so many replies.


From what you all say then if I watch the news or weather on my computer I
had better get myself a licence.

If you watch a BBC iPlayer programme that is live there will be a statement
on the page that tells you that you need a TV licence.


Does anyone know why the blind have to pay more for a colour TV licence than
a black and white TV licence?

TV Licensing charges the blind £71.25 a year to use a colour TV and £24 a
year to use a B&W TV

Adam.

ARWadsworth wrote:

"Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wow, I never expected so many replies.


From what you all say then if I watch the news or weather on my
computer I had better get myself a licence.

If you watch a BBC iPlayer programme that is live there will be a
statement on the page that tells you that you need a TV licence.


Does anyone know why the blind have to pay more for a colour TV licence
than a black and white TV licence?

TV Licensing charges the blind £71.25 a year to use a colour TV and £24
a year to use a B&W TV

I wouldn't have thought either were particularly useful to a blind person.


Adam.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
ARWadsworth wrote:

"Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wow, I never expected so many replies.


From what you all say then if I watch the news or weather on my computer
I had better get myself a licence.

If you watch a BBC iPlayer programme that is live there will be a
statement on the page that tells you that you need a TV licence.


Does anyone know why the blind have to pay more for a colour TV licence
than a black and white TV licence?

TV Licensing charges the blind £71.25 a year to use a colour TV and £24 a
year to use a B&W TV

I wouldn't have thought either were particularly useful to a blind person.



Blind doesn't always mean total blackout. I know a registed blind wood
turner. He has tunnel vision.

mark

ARWadsworth wrote:

Does anyone know why the blind have to pay more for a colour TV licence
than a black and white TV licence?

TV Licensing charges the blind £71.25 a year to use a colour TV and £24
a year to use a B&W TV

Adam.

I imagine because having a blind person in the household allows the
household to get a cheap licence. Everybody in the household gets the
benefit of the concession.

I suspect that very few completely blind people live on their own.

On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:31:57 -0000, "Stewart"
wrote:

Wow, I never expected so many replies. From what you all say then if I
watch the news or weather on my computer I had better get myself a licence.
Thankfully I am almost 75 so then I think it will be free.

Bravo! Enjoy.

There was a letter in tonight's local rag (probably similarly sent to
all LRs in the kingdom) from TVLA reminding people over 75 of their
entitlement to a 'free' licence.
Referring to 'mobile phones, laptops or MP3 players for their elderly
relations', a Phil Reed says:-
"With many of these gadgets now offering online access to TV
programmes, people should be aware that they need to be covered by a
TV Licence if they use any device to watch or record programmes as
they're being broadcast."

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

"Jason" wrote in message ...
Stewart wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.

I suspect this refers to TV cards in the computer. Being able simply to access
the Internet does not require a TV licence.


Wrong I'm afraid ;-)

What I suspect is that we live in the only country in the world where some internet
video streams require a government permit and others don't.

How are you supposed to tell the difference?
Before anyone says that it's easy remember it's not just our domestic UK television
streams that are restricted in this way
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 12 Jan, 10:36, "Stewart" wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",
The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?
Thank you.

Has the mystery of "Do TV detector vans exist/work" been solved yet?

Is anyone aware of evidence from such vans/equipment being used in a
prosecution?

dg

In message
, dg
writes
On 12 Jan, 10:36, "Stewart" wrote:
I have no TV but watch the news, weather etc on computer as well as using
bbc iplayer.
I regularly get a notice from the licencing authority telling me that if I
have a receiver (including computer) that can receive "live" tv then I must
buy a licence.
Now I have tried several things to see what is "live".
My digital radio plays the same programme slightly later than my FM radio so
the digital radio cannot be "live".
I was in away at New Year and both watched and listened to the Vienna New
Year concert, it was "live" on FM radio, slightly later on digital radio and
later still on TV so that was not "live",
The news and weather from bbc on the computer are also later than those on a
tv.
Does anyone know what "live" really means?
Thank you.

Has the mystery of "Do TV detector vans exist/work" been solved yet?

Is anyone aware of evidence from such vans/equipment being used in a
prosecution?

Prolly a bit like Thames Valley Police's porche

There is one which sort of works, but spends most of its time at photo
shoots, schools and other publicity functions

--
geoff