http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal....er+f ranchise
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

A new gas installer registration scheme is on the way from April 2009
after the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) announced their preference
for Capita over current holder Corgi.
The new scheme will be governed much more tightly by the HSE than the
previous one and Capita are promising to focus on high levels of gas
safety awareness amongst consumers aligned to a powerful new gas
safety brand as well as "a rapid and dramatic improvement in levels of
service satisfaction" as well as a commitment to working with other
industry bodies

--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On 2008-06-19 19:27:50 +0100, Tony Bryer said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100 Mogga wrote :
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

A new gas installer registration scheme is on the way from April 2009
after the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) announced their
preference for Capita over current holder Corgi.

As a mere observer of these things I have rather begun to get the
impression that CORGI has increasingly come to believe that installers
exist to further it rather than the other way round.

Yes, but only 50 sackings......

From the CORGI web site:

€œOur focus now is to work with the HSE and Capita to maintain the
profile of gas safety for installers and consumers, and to also provide
guidance and support to the 300 or so current CORGI employees€�.

From Capita web site:

"Around 250 CORGI employees are expected to TUPE transfer to the new scheme."

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100, mogga wrote:

http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal....er+f ranchise
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

A new gas installer registration scheme is on the way from April 2009
after the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) announced their preference
for Capita over current holder Corgi.
The new scheme will be governed much more tightly by the HSE than the
previous one and Capita are promising to focus on high levels of gas
safety awareness amongst consumers aligned to a powerful new gas
safety brand as well as "a rapid and dramatic improvement in levels of
service satisfaction" as well as a commitment to working with other
industry bodies

It wouldn't be this Capita would it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita

If it is, it hasn't got a particularly good track record.

Don.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100 Mogga wrote :
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

A new gas installer registration scheme is on the way from April 2009
after the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) announced their
preference for Capita over current holder Corgi.

As a mere observer of these things I have rather begun to get the
impression that CORGI has increasingly come to believe that installers
exist to further it rather than the other way round.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On 2008-06-19 19:10:54 +0100, "Cerberus ." said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100, mogga wrote:

http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal....er+f ranchise
HSE

choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

A new gas installer registration scheme is on the way from April 2009
after the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) announced their preference
for Capita over current holder Corgi.
The new scheme will be governed much more tightly by the HSE than the
previous one and Capita are promising to focus on high levels of gas
safety awareness amongst consumers aligned to a powerful new gas
safety brand as well as "a rapid and dramatic improvement in levels of
service satisfaction" as well as a commitment to working with other
industry bodies

It wouldn't be this Capita would it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita

If it is, it hasn't got a particularly good track record.

Don.

This would be why it has been chosen. The incompetent always hire
beneath their ability in order to look good. Since the hiring
organisation consists of civil servants, it has the double benefit of
allowing blame to be apportioned elsewhere when it all goes wrong.

An ideal choice by all accounts.

On 2008-06-19 20:10:47 +0100, Owain said:

Cerberus . wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100, mogga wrote:
http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal....er+f ranchise
HSE

choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.
It wouldn't be this Capita would it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita
If it is, it hasn't got a particularly good track record.

But imagine the benefits ... whenever you get your boiler serviced the
fitter will be able to do a clandestine check for unlicensed tellies
and children truanting off school.

Owain

Give them their due, they do have a partnersip with Birmingham City
Council. Something to do with speech therapy I would imagine.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:06:13 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

Capita also known as Crapita. A huge organisation with fingers in so many
pies that it does none of the tasks it has particulary well.

From Capita web site:

"Around 250 CORGI employees are expected to TUPE transfer to the new
scheme."

I was going to say I bet Capita now buy CORGI and nothing actually
changes.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100, mogga wrote:

http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal....er+f ranchise
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

The HSE's own website carries a fair amount about it he
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/safetyreview.htm
and CORGI have a brief press release on it here
http://www.trustcorgi.com/news/Press...EDecision.htmx

The HSE stuff is pretty much PHB-speak. It includes
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""
KPI 2 - Brand recognition

This KPI sets out targets for establishing the new gas safety
brand with gas consumers during the first two and half years of the new
scheme.

This KPI is intended to:

* Deliver early strong establishment and recognition of the new brand
with gas consumers and minimum levels of unprompted brand awareness
for the Autumn 2009.

* Deliver high level of association between the new brand amongst gas
consumers and the messages on gas safety including the need to use
registered gas installers for gas work.

* Minimise public confusion between the new gas safety brand and other
brands.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""

That's going to be interesting. Inasmuch as Joe public has a clue about
gas safety the word he's most likely to know is 'CORGI'. Since Crapita
are not being given CORGI's name along with their core business and their
TUPEd over employees they're going to have to splash out on some seriously
high level advertising to get their name across. (Or I suppose a Potters
Bar-magnitude disaster might do, as it did for Jarvis :-)) Where will the
money for this advertising come from: their shareholders' profits or gas
installers' registration fees? Answers on the back of a postcard please.

And if installers' fees go up, where does that money end up coming from?

I know it's been quite the thing to knock CORGI, and I daresay some people
have had good reason to. Personally I've not had any problems with them in
the 5 years I've been registered. The 3 inspectors I've dealt with have
been fair and helpful, their admin (registration and
notifications, including their online services) works OK, and the
information they provide in their magazine for installers (imaginatively
titled Gas Installer) is useful, if somewhat pedantic.

AIUI one of the reasons the HSE gave for not wanting to let someone else
like NAPIT run a registration scheme in competition with CORGI was that it
would confuse the public who (it was implied) are familiar with the CORGI
name. The same objection is true of the present change but it's still
going to be a monopoly and whe^H^H^Hif Crapita screw it up there's nowhere
better for installers or consumers to go.

And anyone who uses words like "deliver a suite of changes to refocus and
improve ...", "stakeholder" and gas safety "brand" has got to be dodgy ;-)


--
John Stumbles

I can't stand intolerance

On 2008-06-20 00:06:20 +0100, John Stumbles said:

And anyone who uses words like "deliver a suite of changes to refocus and
improve ...", "stakeholder" and gas safety "brand" has got to be dodgy ;-)

Yes they've been on the courses.

- KPI's as a TLA

I'm surprised that 'repurposing' and 'leverage' aren't in there.

On 2008-06-19 23:53:23 +0100, "Dave Liquorice"
said:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:06:13 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

Capita also known as Crapita. A huge organisation with fingers in so many
pies that it does none of the tasks it has particulary well.

From Capita web site:

"Around 250 CORGI employees are expected to TUPE transfer to the new
scheme."

I was going to say I bet Capita now buy CORGI and nothing actually
changes.

In effect that is what they will be doing by hiring 250 of its 300 employees.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:06:13 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

Capita also known as Crapita. A huge organisation with fingers in so many
pies that it does none of the tasks it has particulary well.

From Capita web site:

"Around 250 CORGI employees are expected to TUPE transfer to the new
scheme."

I was going to say I bet Capita now buy CORGI and nothing actually
changes.

Something *should* change! But won't - we will watch over the next few
years as docuement after document, web site after web site doesn't get
updated to say Capita rather than CORGI (or a suitable generic term).

You will see people swearing blind that CORGIs are allowed to do gas
work (for gain) and no-one else is.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:06:20 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/safetyreview.htm


I note their KPIs

"KPI 1 - Gas consumer awareness of gas safety risks and the
register.

"KPI 2 - Brand recognition

"KPI 3 - Gas consumer satisfaction with the registration scheme

"KPI 4 - Gas installer satisfaction with the registration scheme

"KPI 5 - Stakeholder relationships with the registration scheme
provider

"KPI 6 - Risk based approach to targeting inspection

"KPI 7 - Reducing unsafe gas work

"KPI 8 - Advice and assistance to HSE and LAs"

So, the alleged purpose of this regime is relegated to position
seven out of eight in their KPI list. An interesting priority.

I would also be interested in graphs going back ten years before the
CORGI con started, to get a true picture of the effectiveness of the
con.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:47:55 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

I would also be interested in graphs going back ten years before the
CORGI con started, to get a true picture of the effectiveness of the
con.

I'm sorry: what is the CORGI 'con'? AIUI the word 'con' is usually short
for 'confidence trick'. CORGI run a registration scheme for gas
installers including inspecting installers and running a public complaints
system. They've also (especially lately, maybe aware that their meal
ticket was under threat) been (or claimed to be) chasing unregistered
installers, and publicising gas safety with Joe Public and parliament.

The only aspect of 'con' I can think of is claiming credit for reducing CO
poisoning incidents which are probably more due to general replacement of
conventional flue appliances by room-sealed ones and reduction in the
number of gas fires being used.

Spamming installers' customers with a vapid glossy PR magazine probably
hasn't done them any good with either group but still doesn't put them in
anywhere near the same league of bottom-feeders as Crapita.

--
John Stumbles

What do you mean, talking about it isn't oral sex?

"John Stumbles" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:47:55 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

I would also be interested in graphs going back ten years before the
CORGI con started, to get a true picture of the effectiveness of the
con.

I'm sorry: what is the CORGI 'con'? AIUI the word 'con' is usually short
for 'confidence trick'. CORGI run a registration scheme for gas
installers including inspecting installers and running a public complaints
system. They've also (especially lately, maybe aware that their meal
ticket was under threat) been (or claimed to be) chasing unregistered
installers, and publicising gas safety with Joe Public and parliament.


Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that are
done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any good,
just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a very
literal one!


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

John Stumbles wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:47:55 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

I would also be interested in graphs going back ten years before the
CORGI con started, to get a true picture of the effectiveness of the
con.

I'm sorry: what is the CORGI 'con'? AIUI the word 'con' is usually short
for 'confidence trick'. CORGI run a registration scheme for gas
installers including inspecting installers and running a public complaints
system. They've also (especially lately, maybe aware that their meal
ticket was under threat) been (or claimed to be) chasing unregistered
installers, and publicising gas safety with Joe Public and parliament.

The con is that there is no competition and CORGI exists to foster
restrictive practices but promotes itself on the basis of safety and
regulation.

As with the NICEIC con, the body in question makes specious claims about
safety, but uses sleight of hand to avoid addressing the issue that
caused the body to be appointed.

I'm thinking here of NICEIC and the farce of inspecting fixed domestic
wiring when the incident that caused politicians to legislate was an
accident involving a faulty flex. And CORGI attempting to prevent
amateurs working on gas installations, most laughably when they attempt
to prevent people working on their own boat or caravan, when the
incidents that affected, and continue to affect, public perception were
the fault of "professional" installers.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that
are done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any
good, just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a
very literal one!

So by the same reckoning the BMA is a con because there are some
incompetent doctors around?

--
John Stumbles

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
and Pop Psychologists are from Uranus

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:15:02 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

The con is that there is no competition and CORGI exists to foster
restrictive practices but promotes itself on the basis of safety and
regulation.

So, as with the BMA, the same sort of restrictive practices that stop you
or me setting up as a doctor, i.e. you have to do training which is
supposed to prove you are competetent before being allowed to register and
practice.

As with the NICEIC con, the body in question makes specious claims about
safety, but uses sleight of hand to avoid addressing the issue that
caused the body to be appointed.

I'm thinking here of NICEIC and the farce of inspecting fixed domestic
wiring when the incident that caused politicians to legislate was an
accident involving a faulty flex.

AIUI the "incident that caused politicians to legislate" (we're talking
here of Part P, right?) was caused by fixed wiring being installed outside
the permitted zones in a kitchen, causing the daughter (in-law?) of a
politician to be killed by electrocution (hubby had put up a metal rack
for hanging kitchen spoons & things, a fixing screw of which had gone into
the cable making the metal live: Mrs reached for a spoon while touching an
earthed appliance and was killed).

And NICEIC was in existence for years before this incident and Part P. And
I don't think "it was appointed". Unlike CORGI which has (sorry, had) an
HSE franchise to run *the* gas installer registration scheme NICEIC is one
of many bodies (including CORGI) which run Electrical accreditation
schemes.


--
John Stumbles

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that
are done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any
good, just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a
very literal one!

So by the same reckoning the BMA is a con because there are some
incompetent doctors around?


But it's the GMC wot suspends them (Raj Persaud - 3 months - just heard
on radio).

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:06:20 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:17:20 +0100, mogga wrote:

http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal.net/news/news.asp?
id=5279&title=Corgi+loses+gas+installer+franchise
HSE choose Capita as their new partner for gas installer registration
scheme.

The HSE's own website carries a fair amount about it he
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/safetyreview.htm and CORGI have a
brief press release on it here
http://www.trustcorgi.com/news/Press...EDecision.htmx

The HSE stuff is pretty much PHB-speak. It includes
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""" KPI 2 -
Brand recognition

This KPI sets out targets for establishing the new gas safety brand with
gas consumers during the first two and half years of the new scheme.

This KPI is intended to:

* Deliver early strong establishment and recognition of the new brand
with gas consumers and minimum levels of unprompted brand awareness for
the Autumn 2009.

* Deliver high level of association between the new brand amongst gas
consumers and the messages on gas safety including the need to use
registered gas installers for gas work.

* Minimise public confusion between the new gas safety brand and other
brands.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """""""""""

That's going to be interesting. Inasmuch as Joe public has a clue about
gas safety the word he's most likely to know is 'CORGI'. Since Crapita
are not being given CORGI's name along with their core business and
their TUPEd over employees they're going to have to splash out on some
seriously high level advertising to get their name across. (Or I suppose
a Potters Bar-magnitude disaster might do, as it did for Jarvis :-))
Where will the money for this advertising come from: their shareholders'
profits or gas installers' registration fees? Answers on the back of a
postcard please.

And if installers' fees go up, where does that money end up coming from?

I know it's been quite the thing to knock CORGI, and I daresay some
people have had good reason to. Personally I've not had any problems
with them in the 5 years I've been registered. The 3 inspectors I've
dealt with have been fair and helpful, their admin (registration and
notifications, including their online services) works OK, and the
information they provide in their magazine for installers (imaginatively
titled Gas Installer) is useful, if somewhat pedantic.

AIUI one of the reasons the HSE gave for not wanting to let someone else
like NAPIT run a registration scheme in competition with CORGI was that
it would confuse the public who (it was implied) are familiar with the
CORGI name. The same objection is true of the present change but it's
still going to be a monopoly and whe^H^H^Hif Crapita screw it up there's
nowhere better for installers or consumers to go.

And anyone who uses words like "deliver a suite of changes to refocus
and improve ...", "stakeholder" and gas safety "brand" has got to be
dodgy ;-)

That's my take exactly. If there were a choice of registration then it
would be based on
1) customer perception (no point in making a rod for my own back
explaining that Capita is just as good as Corgi).
2) level of registration fees.

If Corgi cards are to be changed for Capita ones then there will be a few
customers who will need some convincing.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100, Rod wrote:

John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations
that are done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not
be any good, just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to
me and a very literal one!

So by the same reckoning the BMA is a con because there are some
incompetent doctors around?


But it's the GMC wot suspends them (Raj Persaud - 3 months - just heard
on radio).

It may come as something of a surprise that Corgi do actually strike
people off the register.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

In article ,
John Stumbles writes:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:15:02 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

The con is that there is no competition and CORGI exists to foster
restrictive practices but promotes itself on the basis of safety and
regulation.

So, as with the BMA, the same sort of restrictive practices that stop you
or me setting up as a doctor, i.e. you have to do training which is
supposed to prove you are competetent before being allowed to register and
practice.

As with the NICEIC con, the body in question makes specious claims about
safety, but uses sleight of hand to avoid addressing the issue that
caused the body to be appointed.

I'm thinking here of NICEIC and the farce of inspecting fixed domestic
wiring when the incident that caused politicians to legislate was an
accident involving a faulty flex.

Not aware of what incident you're referring to.

Part P started about 10 years before it came into effect with
some very poor (closed) research by the BRE. NICEIC picked up
on that and spent years pushing for it. Eventually it was copied
into the RIA which a number of us responded to, all pointing out
the same mistakes, but were ignored. Then after it came in, ODPM
admitted the figures in the RIA were wrong in exactly the way we
had stated. And then, as we had predicted (but even more so),
deaths due to electrical incidents which had been falling for the
previous 30 years before Part P, doubled.

AIUI the "incident that caused politicians to legislate" (we're talking
here of Part P, right?) was caused by fixed wiring being installed outside
the permitted zones in a kitchen, causing the daughter (in-law?) of a
politician to be killed by electrocution (hubby had put up a metal rack
for hanging kitchen spoons & things, a fixing screw of which had gone into
the cable making the metal live: Mrs reached for a spoon while touching an
earthed appliance and was killed).

That incident happened after Part P was pretty much done and
dusted. It certainly prevented any chance of a last minute
U-turn, but I don't think there was any realistic chance anyway.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Ed Sirett wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100, Rod wrote:

John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100, Bob Mannix wrote:

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations
that are done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not
be any good, just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to
me and a very literal one!
So by the same reckoning the BMA is a con because there are some
incompetent doctors around?


But it's the GMC wot suspends them (Raj Persaud - 3 months - just heard
on radio).

It may come as something of a surprise that Corgi do actually strike
people off the register.


Yes - I noticed the list of recently struck off when I visited their
site the other day. But they don't strike off doctors... :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100, Rod wrote:

But it's the GMC wot suspends them

Yeah, my bad: BMA, GMC, WTF :-)

(Raj Persaud - 3 months - just heard
on radio).

Give him his full title please: Raj Persaud MD PhD CtrlC

(from b3ta.com :-))

--
John Stumbles

Women always generalise

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:30:04 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Not aware of what incident you're referring to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3735928.stm

12 October, 2004

Coroner verdict on MP's daughter

The death of a Lib Dem MP's daughter was caused by electrocution as a
result of defective home improvement work, a coroner's court has found.

Mary Wherry, daughter of Richmond Park MP Jenny Tonge, died as she emptied
her dishwasher at her home in west London.

The 34-year-old mother of two had not realised a metal screw supporting a
utensil rack was touching a live wire. She was found by her two young sons.

The coroner's verdict was the death was "consequent on home improvement
work".

Killed instantly

Mrs Wherry placed a utensil on the metal rack as her ankle was resting
against the stainless steel of the dishwasher.

She was pronounced dead on 31 July in hospital although Fulham Coroner
Alison Thompson said Mrs Wherry was killed instantly at her Hampton Hill
home.

A two-and-a-half inch black and yellow bruise was discovered on her ankle
showing where the electricity had passed.

The court heard a new kitchen was installed at the house in 1999 by
unnamed builders and the wires from the extractor to the fuse box had not
been installed according to best practice guidelines.

Live current

Detective Inspector Tim Dobson said the wires did not go up the wall
vertically and then horizontally, as expected, but veered off at a five
degree angle.

"The wire was outside the area of expectancy, at a slight angle," he said.

Two years later Mrs Wherry's husband put the utensil rack beneath the
extractor hood and a screw went into the cable.

Over time the rack and cable had moved so that the screw came into contact
with the live current.

Verdict

Roger Vincent, a spokesman for the Royal Society of Prevention of
Accidents, said: "This case re-emphasises the need to ensure that all
electrical work is carried out by experts - it isn't something for DIY.

"In the kitchen, water and electricity is a fatal combination - a lot of
water around makes the problem even worse."

--
John Stumbles

Women always generalise

In article ,
John Stumbles writes:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:30:04 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Not aware of what incident you're referring to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3735928.stm

12 October, 2004

Coroner verdict on MP's daughter

My comment was on Steve's quote, not yours.
I referred to the MP's daughters's death later in the posting,
which I recall well.

BTW, the wiring in that kitchen was professionally installed,
and not DIY as some of the press incorrectly interpreted it at
the time.

When I was looking at wiring deaths, I think all the ones
I could find attributable to recent installation faults
(as opposed to ancient wiring) were actually professional
installs. The other notable one at the time was an electrocution
in an electric shower. The HSE, quite unbelieveably, called in
the firm which installed it to investigate. Strangely, they
found no fault, in spite of the rather compelling evidence of
an electrocuted body on the shower with no other possible
cause.

The only DIY one I found at the time was also an electric
shower. A guy refurbishing a house had no electricity supply,
and next door lent him the end of an extension lead for his
tools. He had bought an electric shower, presumably to fit in
the bathroom but it wasn't yet fitted. As best as could be
determined at the scene, he'd decided to try using the shower
to clean himself up, and was probably holding the loose
shower wall unit in one hand and the shower head in the other,
connected up to the end of the extension lead. I think the
word Darwin came to mind in all who read it at the time.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:25:03 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

My comment was on Steve's quote, not yours.

Oh, right:


On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:15:02 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:
....
I'm thinking here of NICEIC and the farce of inspecting fixed domestic
wiring when the incident that caused politicians to legislate was an
accident involving a faulty flex.


No doubt Steve will be along in a minute to give us a reference for that.


--
John Stumbles

A: Because it messes up the order in which people read text.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad thing?

John Stumbles wrote:

I'm thinking here of NICEIC and the farce of inspecting fixed domestic
wiring when the incident that caused politicians to legislate was an
accident involving a faulty flex.


No doubt Steve will be along in a minute to give us a reference for that.

shrug

As if I care that much. As I say my recollection was that the howling
was about a faulty flex, which killed someone who was ironing. The
problem being that when politicians are on the warpath the rake up any
and every incident.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:47:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, David
Hansen randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

"KPI 6 - Risk based approach to targeting inspection

"Not inspecting except when someone complains/dies".
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:08:36 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Ed
Sirett wrote this:-

It may come as something of a surprise that Corgi do actually strike
people off the register.

The only time I tried to have this done, many moons ago, they were
not in the least interested in dangerous work done by people they
have registered.

If they have pulled their socks up in recent years, under the threat
of extinction, that is all very good. However, the whole process
remains a con.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100 someone who may be "Bob Mannix"
wrote this:-

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that are
done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any good,
just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a very
literal one!

That is one of the main reasons why it is a con.

The apparent coyness by the elf 'n' safety mob about the figures is
revealing.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On 2008-06-21 11:05:27 +0100, Hugo Nebula abuse@localhost said:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:47:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, David
Hansen randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

"KPI 6 - Risk based approach to targeting inspection

"Not inspecting except when someone complains/dies".

Mmm..

One also wonders to whom they consider the risk to be and the nature of that.

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:34:49 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:08:36 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Ed
Sirett wrote this:-

It may come as something of a surprise that Corgi do actually strike
people off the register.
....
If they have pulled their socks up in recent years, under the threat
of extinction, that is all very good. However, the whole process
remains a con.

CORGI's "Gas Installer" magazine has a regular column listing people it's
struck off and why - usually about 3 a month. It's been like that for the
5 years I've been registsred.

--
John Stumbles

A: Because it messes up the order in which people read text.
Q: Why is top-posting a bad thing?

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:36:19 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100 someone who may be "Bob Mannix"
wrote this:-

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that are
done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any good,
just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a very
literal one!

That is one of the main reasons why it is a con.

By the same reckoning the General Medical Council is a con: patients are
"tricked" ito having confidence in work done by doctors who may not be any
good.

Perhaps you can name one body which registers skilled and responsible
people which has never let a single duff person onto their register?

--
John Stumbles

This sig intentionally left blank

John Stumbles wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:36:19 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100 someone who may be "Bob Mannix"
wrote this:-

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that are
done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any good,
just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a very
literal one!
That is one of the main reasons why it is a con.

By the same reckoning the General Medical Council is a con: patients are
"tricked" ito having confidence in work done by doctors who may not be any
good.

Perhaps you can name one body which registers skilled and responsible
people which has never let a single duff person onto their register?


The only GMC case I followed intently was actually a bizarre inversion
of the norm. The doctor was shopped by other doctors for their own
reasons - but he was actually helping to make his patients well. And was
supported by many of them turning up in person repeatedly throughout the
hearing.

But to answer your question, even the twelve disciples...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

CORGI is/are a waste of rations. Just done my own LPG installation on
a vessel and just followed the Calor Gas Marine installation booklet.
Very simple, with a clear diagram of what kit to install and in which
position etc etc. Changing gas hob jets to LPG was also pretty
simple, except different size jets for burner sizes not the easiest
thing to spot and any explanation seems to have been deliberately left
out of the instructions.

John Stumbles wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100, Rod wrote:

But it's the GMC wot suspends them

Yeah, my bad: BMA, GMC, WTF :-)

(Raj Persaud - 3 months - just heard
on radio).

Give him his full title please: Raj Persaud MD PhD CtrlC

(from b3ta.com :-))

Aren't those someone else's letters after his name?

(Yes - did notice the unusual one - maybe Ctrl-Alt-Del on his career?)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:34:09 GMT someone who may be John Stumbles
wrote this:-

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations that are
done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may not be any good,
just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence trick to me and a very
literal one!

That is one of the main reasons why it is a con.

By the same reckoning the General Medical Council is a con: patients are
"tricked" ito having confidence in work done by doctors who may not be any
good.

Perhaps you can name one body which registers skilled and responsible
people which has never let a single duff person onto their register?

You appear to accept that there is a need for a registration scheme.
I don't.

If these registration schemes were so good then their perpetrators
would be less coy with the figures which give an idea of how
effective, or not, these schemes are.

Then there is the FUD spread by the operators of such schemes, which
CORGI are exponents of.




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message , Rod
writes
John Stumbles wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:36:19 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:32:30 +0100 someone who may be "Bob Mannix"
wrote this:-

Well consumers are tricked into having confidence in installations
that are done by CORGI registered installers, when they may or may
not be any good, just like before CORGI. Sounds like a confidence
trick to me and a very literal one!
That is one of the main reasons why it is a con.
By the same reckoning the General Medical Council is a con: patients
are
"tricked" ito having confidence in work done by doctors who may not be any
good.
Perhaps you can name one body which registers skilled and
responsible
people which has never let a single duff person onto their register?


The only GMC case I followed intently was actually a bizarre inversion
of the norm. The doctor was shopped by other doctors for their own
reasons - but he was actually helping to make his patients well. And
was supported by many of them turning up in person repeatedly
throughout the hearing.

But to answer your question, even the twelve disciples...

That's just propaganda


--
geoff

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:32:34 -0700, CS wrote:

CORGI is/are a waste of rations. Just done my own LPG installation on
a vessel and just followed the Calor Gas Marine installation booklet.
Very simple, with a clear diagram of what kit to install and in which
position etc etc. Changing gas hob jets to LPG was also pretty
simple, except different size jets for burner sizes not the easiest
thing to spot and any explanation seems to have been deliberately left
out of the instructions.

And you leak-tested it, how?

--
John Stumbles

Who's *really* behind all these conspiracy theories?

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:36:56 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

You appear to accept that there is a need for a registration scheme.
I don't.

Is that a fundamemtalist principle for you - would you not want a
registration scheme for doctors or surgeons either? What about driving
tests? Or do you draw some arbitrary line (like the rest of us) in which
case it's presumably a matter of what you think are the costs v.
the benefits of such schemes.

If these registration schemes were so good then their perpetrators
would be less coy with the figures which give an idea of how
effective, or not, these schemes are.

What sort of figures are you looking for?

Then there is the FUD spread by the operators of such schemes, which
CORGI are exponents of.

Example of CORGI FUD please?

--
John Stumbles

What is a simile like?