My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

David

David J wrote:
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

Are you sure you have the right explanation. I get a reduction in my
water charge because I have proved to the water company's satisfaction
that the rainwater from my roof doesn't discharge into the main sewer.

I was not asked whether the drive drained onto the road, It doesn't, the
reverse is more likely and did happen before I put in kerb stones
myself. During a recent cloudburst (best part of an inch in under 15
minutes) my neighbour's new shingle drive was largely washed onto his
garden and his garage flooded. It doesn't help that the nearest uphill
gully this side of the road is several hundred yards away.

In article ,
David J writes:
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

It's a new-ish charge they're allowed to make (last couple of years).
I didn't know they'd started doing this with residential properties yet,
although they are allowed to. Initially, they were going for commercial
properties, but the intention was always to include residential and
other properties when they get round to doing the surveys on them.
Some companies with large roofs or car parks where they don't handle
all the water in their own soakaways have been stung for many thousands.
It's a charge which is aimed at dissuading rapid run-off (blamed for
some flooding), and paying for measures to handle it where it does occur.
It will sting people who have concreted over their gardens without
installing drainage and soakaways to handle the run-off.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:37:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
David J writes:
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

I successfully challenged my charge and so did my mum. Their criterion
was something like the water must discharge to a soakaway at least 5m
from the road. A sketch map showing distances and loation of soakaway
was enough to convince them

Anna

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:54:11 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:



I successfully challenged my charge and so did my mum. Their criterion
was something like the water must discharge to a soakaway at least 5m
from the road. A sketch map showing distances and loation of soakaway
was enough to convince them

Anna

Same here. Just sent in a rough plan showing the location of the two soakaways
and the charge was dropped. No mention of distances from the road.

Andy C

Andy Cap wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:54:11 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:


I successfully challenged my charge and so did my mum. Their criterion
was something like the water must discharge to a soakaway at least 5m
from the road. A sketch map showing distances and loation of soakaway
was enough to convince them

Anna

Same here. Just sent in a rough plan showing the location of the two soakaways
and the charge was dropped. No mention of distances from the road.

Andy C

I wonder what the water companies think of people pumping water out of
their cellars. The particular street I'm thinking of obviously has deep
cellars because of the high water table in the area but, after a couple
of decades of mostly dry weather, it's easy to become complacent and
think you have a permanently dry storage area.

In article ,
Andy Cap writes:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:54:11 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:



I successfully challenged my charge and so did my mum. Their criterion
was something like the water must discharge to a soakaway at least 5m
from the road. A sketch map showing distances and loation of soakaway
was enough to convince them

Anna

Same here. Just sent in a rough plan showing the location of the two soakaways
and the charge was dropped. No mention of distances from the road.

Out of interest, what was the charge?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Dec 9, 12:36*pm, (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Andy Cap writes:

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:54:11 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

I successfully challenged my charge and so did my mum. Their criterion
was something like the water must discharge to a soakaway at least 5m
from the road. A sketch map showing distances and loation of soakaway
was enough to convince them

Anna

Same here. Just sent in a rough plan showing the location of the two soakaways
and the charge was dropped. No mention of distances from the road.

Out of interest, what was the charge?


I think we are charged about £35 a year becuase the front roof drains
into the road gutter. i wonder if I would be allowed to direct all
the roof rainwater into the foul sewer 'included in the price'. it
would be convenient becauase I want to stop using the victorian soak-
aways that are basically under the house

Robert

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 23:37:49 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
David J writes:
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

It's a new-ish charge they're allowed to make (last couple of years).
I didn't know they'd started doing this with residential properties yet,
although they are allowed to. Initially, they were going for commercial
properties, but the intention was always to include residential and
other properties when they get round to doing the surveys on them.
Some companies with large roofs or car parks where they don't handle
all the water in their own soakaways have been stung for many thousands.
It's a charge which is aimed at dissuading rapid run-off (blamed for
some flooding), and paying for measures to handle it where it does occur.
It will sting people who have concreted over their gardens without
installing drainage and soakaways to handle the run-off.

It must vary from region to region, company to company then. Our
water bill has always had this charge.

You can appeal against it (which we did) but you must show that none
of your rainwater flows into public sewers. Therefore if water drains
off your land onto public land by means of a slope or your rainwater
goes into a storm drain then you have to pay.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

"David J" wrote in message
...
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

AIUI, it isn't relevant which way the drive slopes and that you can show
that it might not go into the drain, but just goes into the ground. What is
relevant is that you can show that the water does, in fact, go somewhere
else that *you* are responsible for in some other way, such as into a water
butt.

tim

"David J" wrote in message
...
My water rates invoice shows an (admittedly small) additional charge
for what is called 'surface water drainage' which is included in the
sewerage charge as 'foul & surface'.

Enquiries revealed that this was a charge for rain water running from
my drive onto the road. They admitted that they have no idea whether
it does, or not. In effect everybody is charged unless they can
successfully challenge the charge, in which case one of their
surveyors will have been to the property to establish the facts. I
reckon that my drive is level, with just a slope on the public
pavement onto the road level.

Question is: How can it be determined (unless it is raining) if a
level drive passes rain water onto the road? On both sides of my drive
are lawns, and surface water will also drain onto that. As the drive
is brickweave some of the rain will soak though the gaps. Many of my
neighbour's drives actually slope away from the road.

Isn't this just a big con by the Water Companies?

Now where I live, in the borough of Spelthorne, which is inside the M25
ring, not just the surface water from the houses but even the roads go into
soakaways. Thames Water have always known this but never volunteer the
information, so unless you are aware you still fork out the extra for
surface water drainage. When we all started claiming it back a few years
ago, having paid for over twenty years, they claimed that by law they only
had to refund the last two years.
--
Tinkerer