Well it's not really a manhole cover because it's much smaller. But it
doesn't seem to have another name.
Anyway, after 40 years it had rusted in place.
I tried a hacksaw blade around the edges. That worked OK down to about
half an inch. But the cover is 3 inches thick down to the ledge.
Tried a 4 foot crowbar in the hole, levering in all directions.
Tried hitting it a hundred times with a sledge hammer.
Tried heating it very hot with a blowtorch.
Tried freezing it.

Then I made a 16mm key to fit in the hole, with a ring on top.
Tried levering it up with a 6 foot crowbar but the crowbar bent.

Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Matty F
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 12:38

cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Why are you fiddling with railway (or tramway) lines - do tell...

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't require
much effort?)

cheers

Jules

Matty F
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 13:49

On Sep 30, 11:58 pm, Tim W wrote:
Matty F
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 12:38

cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Why are you fiddling with railway (or tramway) lines - do tell...

I've got the job of devising the mechanism that makes the points flip
from one side to the other without stopping in the middle.
It involves a spring!

Cool.

Is it a tram, preserved line or do you work for the mainline railways?

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

On Oct 1, 1:27 am, Jules
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

Well the jack and the crowbar fulcrum are both on the steel that the
box is welded on to! I was expecting the 16mm thread on the bolt to
strip first.

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't require
much effort?)

It's a tram rail. That means that people will drive cars all over it.
So we can't have any levers sticking up.

On Oct 1, 1:30 am, Tim W wrote:
Matty F
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 13:49



On Sep 30, 11:58 pm, Tim W wrote:
Matty F
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 12:38

cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Why are you fiddling with railway (or tramway) lines - do tell...

I've got the job of devising the mechanism that makes the points flip
from one side to the other without stopping in the middle.
It involves a spring!

Cool.

Is it a tram, preserved line or do you work for the mainline railways?

It's a tramline. There are 8 lines going to trambarns, and each needs
the points to be changed when the trams are put away each day.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:43:08 -0700, Matty F wrote:

On Oct 1, 1:27 am, Jules
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

Well the jack and the crowbar fulcrum are both on the steel that the
box is welded on to! I was expecting the 16mm thread on the bolt to
strip first.

D'oh, so they are. In my defence, it's still morning here and I'm sick
today :-)

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't
require much effort?)

It's a tram rail. That means that people will drive cars all over it. So
we can't have any levers sticking up.

I thought they often had a covered channel containing a bar which
connected to the points at one end and the operating mechanism (whatever
it may be) at the other - but I suppose that is just creating more work if
you don't have that already...

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't require
much effort?)

Maybe an A frame made out of a couple of rails and a cable to the back of a
tram?
Something would give.

Next time maybe run an acetylene torch around it like you would with a stuck
bolt.

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
On Oct 1, 1:27 am, Jules
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

Well the jack and the crowbar fulcrum are both on the steel that the
box is welded on to! I was expecting the 16mm thread on the bolt to
strip first.

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't require
much effort?)

It's a tram rail. That means that people will drive cars all over it.
So we can't have any levers sticking up.

I can't imagine how you managed to try to freeze it. Quite a lot of mass.

Matty F wrote:
Well it's not really a manhole cover because it's much smaller. But it
doesn't seem to have another name.
Anyway, after 40 years it had rusted in place.
I tried a hacksaw blade around the edges. That worked OK down to about
half an inch. But the cover is 3 inches thick down to the ledge.
Tried a 4 foot crowbar in the hole, levering in all directions.
Tried hitting it a hundred times with a sledge hammer.
Tried heating it very hot with a blowtorch.
Tried freezing it.

Then I made a 16mm key to fit in the hole, with a ring on top.
Tried levering it up with a 6 foot crowbar but the crowbar bent.

Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Should have used WD40 :-)


--
Dave - WD40 Liberation Front.

In message
,
Matty F writes

It's a tramline. There are 8 lines going to trambarns, and each needs
the points to be changed when the trams are put away each day.

A Youtube film showing simple points operation :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Probably best not copy their overhead catenary, though :-)
--
Graeme

Graeme
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 21:06

A Youtube film showing simple points operation :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Probably best not copy their overhead catenary, though :-)

Bloody hell - and you wonder where Scott Adams got his ideas for "Elbonia"
from...

However, that roll and tip rig looks pretty smooth. I hope the underground
structures are built more like that and not like the points or overhead
supply!

Blokes seem happy enough though.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

Blokes seem happy enough though.

But why do the carriages look so sad!!

John

On Oct 1, 2:24 am, "John" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

...



On Oct 1, 1:27 am, Jules
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:38:54 -0700, Matty F wrote:
Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.

Heck - I'm surprised it didn't just pull the whole surround out of the
ground, too. That sounds seriously jammed...

Well the jack and the crowbar fulcrum are both on the steel that the
box is welded on to! I was expecting the 16mm thread on the bolt to
strip first.

(rail noticed in the photo too, as Tim did - if the spring idea doesn't
work out, maybe some sort of heavy weight that can flip between two
positions, moved by a cunning arrangement of levers so it doesn't require
much effort?)

It's a tram rail. That means that people will drive cars all over it.
So we can't have any levers sticking up.

I can't imagine how you managed to try to freeze it. Quite a lot of mass.

We used Freeze Spray. It didn't do anything useful. At that stage I
was unsure of the construction underneath the cover. If I had known
there was up to 3 inches of rust I wouldn't have tried most of the
techniques.

Graeme wrote:
In message
,
Matty F writes

It's a tramline. There are 8 lines going to trambarns, and each needs
the points to be changed when the trams are put away each day.

A Youtube film showing simple points operation :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Probably best not copy their overhead catenary, though :-)

That was amazing. Thank you. I loved the bit where it looked as if he was
making and breaking contact on the catenary so that it sounded more like a
steam engine!

"Matty F" wrote in message
...
Well it's not really a manhole cover because it's much smaller. But it
doesn't seem to have another name.
Anyway, after 40 years it had rusted in place.
I tried a hacksaw blade around the edges. That worked OK down to about
half an inch. But the cover is 3 inches thick down to the ledge.
Tried a 4 foot crowbar in the hole, levering in all directions.
Tried hitting it a hundred times with a sledge hammer.
Tried heating it very hot with a blowtorch.
Tried freezing it.

Then I made a 16mm key to fit in the hole, with a ring on top.
Tried levering it up with a 6 foot crowbar but the crowbar bent.

Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Good work that man.
Also delighted to see that you are using a Barrett (Duff-Norton type) jack.

I still use these, they are invaluable, but the elfin safety would blow a
gasket if they knew of such goings-on.

Around here the utility companies use a metal framed, hydraulically powered
gadget to lift a manhole or inspection cover.
(1) Takes two men half an hour to erect the kit, put out the signs and
cones, put the kettle on.
(2) Another half hour to drink tea, have a munch, cigarette and inspect the
local hedgerow.
(3) Two minutes to lift the lid.
(4) If that doesn't work try (2) again
(5) Reverse (1)

Nick wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message
...
Well it's not really a manhole cover because it's much smaller. But
it doesn't seem to have another name.
Anyway, after 40 years it had rusted in place.
I tried a hacksaw blade around the edges. That worked OK down to
about half an inch. But the cover is 3 inches thick down to the
ledge. Tried a 4 foot crowbar in the hole, levering in all
directions. Tried hitting it a hundred times with a sledge hammer.
Tried heating it very hot with a blowtorch.
Tried freezing it.

Then I made a 16mm key to fit in the hole, with a ring on top.
Tried levering it up with a 6 foot crowbar but the crowbar bent.

Eventually, put a 5 ton jack under the crowbar, and the cover lifted
up.
I estimate that I applied about a 1 ton force with the jack, and the
4:1 leverage of the crowbar made it about a 4 ton pull to lift the
cover.
Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

I've ground the edges of the cover with an angle grinder and put CRC
on it!

Good work that man.
Also delighted to see that you are using a Barrett (Duff-Norton type)
jack.
I still use these, they are invaluable, but the elfin safety would
blow a gasket if they knew of such goings-on.

Around here the utility companies use a metal framed, hydraulically
powered gadget to lift a manhole or inspection cover.
(1) Takes two men half an hour to erect the kit, put out the signs and
cones, put the kettle on.
(2) Another half hour to drink tea, have a munch, cigarette and
inspect the local hedgerow.
(3) Two minutes to lift the lid.
(4) If that doesn't work try (2) again
(5) Reverse (1)

Once upon a time, I used to have to do that sort of thing. Effing great
'ammer used to sort out most cases. A more effete team thought that such
effort was undignified and bought an hydraulic system, (rather like the
"tuning fork" hydraulic for lifting out an engine).

I borrowed this brand new piece of kit to assist me on a particularly
antisocial lid. Even then, in about 1980, the Elfins were about. I stuck the
van with an orange flashing light in front of the M/H and some of them
cones that a particular DJ used to be concerned about astern of us.

Within 5 minutes we were cranking the 'andle. Within 7 minutes we had some
serious metal spaghetti!

On Oct 1, 10:42 am, "Nick" wrote:
"Matty F" wrote in message

Here is the cover just starting to lift:
http://i38.tinypic.com/28i6j4m.jpg

Good work that man.
Also delighted to see that you are using a Barrett (Duff-Norton type) jack.

I still use these, they are invaluable, but the elfin safety would blow a
gasket if they knew of such goings-on.

It's a ratchet jack rather than a screw jack. I've restored 8 of them
by taking them apart and replacing the odd part. We have one 10 ton
screw jack which is really slow to wind up. While raised, it can be
wound sideways as well.
You'd think it would be ideal for putting a tram back on its rails,
but there's usually nowhere solid to put the jack. We use a crane
instead

Around here the utility companies use a metal framed, hydraulically powered
gadget to lift a manhole or inspection cover.

Damn, now that you mention it we do have a hydraulic jack on wheels
that I could have used!

"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Graeme
wibbled on Wednesday 30 September 2009 21:06

A Youtube film showing simple points operation :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Probably best not copy their overhead catenary, though :-)

Bloody hell - and you wonder where Scott Adams got his ideas for "Elbonia"
from...

However, that roll and tip rig looks pretty smooth. I hope the underground
structures are built more like that and not like the points or overhead
supply!

Blokes seem happy enough though.
They're ****ed.

Bill