Hello,

As you may know from my other threads, I have been wall chasing. I
have a house without a hall, so you have to walk through the lounge.
The lounge has two doors but only one light switch. So I was hoping to
rewire the light to two way switching. The problem is that I need to
access three points: the first switch, the second switch, and the
light itself. Now due to the layout of the house, each one of these is
under a different bedroom. I didn't fancy having to roll-up the carpet
in three rooms and lift three sets of floorboards, so I bought a set
of cable access rods thinking I could do some keyhole surgery. It
hasn't been as easy as I thought. Can anyone give me some pointers on
the correct technique?

The Screwfix catalogue says that its po9les can fit through an 8mm
hole, of course I need a slightly larger hole for the 3&E! I actually
bought mine from Toolstation because they were a few pounds cheaper
and had free delivery too.

The rods have to be rigid so that they go where you put them rather
than kinking like wire would on its own. But I find their rigidity is
a weakness as well as a strength. They are fine for pushing through
the hole above the light fitting because there is room to push them
from any angle but I find that the poles are too rigid to push up from
above the light switches. the wall is in the way so they angle is
quite tight and they won't flex sufficiently. I have "solved" this by
pulling the rods down rather than pushing them up.

Are there any tricks to make using them easier or do they have their
limitations?

Thanks.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:57:15 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Are there any tricks to make using them easier or do they have their
limitations?

I've never actually used them. Opened out coat hangers are rigid, yet
flexible, and you can form and re-form the end with pliers. Not
necessarily as long, but it is possible to join them...




--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

In article ,
Bob Eager writes:
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:57:15 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Are there any tricks to make using them easier or do they have their
limitations?

I've never actually used them. Opened out coat hangers are rigid, yet
flexible, and you can form and re-form the end with pliers. Not
necessarily as long, but it is possible to join them...

I've never bought the screw together rods either.
I have nylon draw wire, but being a coil, that's useless
other than for drawing wires into conduit.

Other things I've used very effectively are for fishing wires
through voids...

Expanding tape measures
sprung steel waste pipe unblocker
mini trunking lids

With the metalic ones, make damn sure there's no chance you'll
push them into a live connection.

If you have modern plaster coving around a room, you affectively
have a nice piece of trunking there. You can drill through the
front with a large flat spade bit, and then draw cable through
the void (expanding tape measure works best for this one). If
you hit a blockage, drill though to clear it. The holes are
easily filled with pollyfila and if the coving is painted white,
you probably won't even need to repaint it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes

mini trunking lids

I find I use these much more than anything else for running cables, the
1cm wide plastic ones are the best, you can put semi permanent bends in
them, make them turn in different directions by twisting them and easily
extend them by taping a couple together.


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:22:06 +0100, bof
wrote:

[mini trunking lids]
I find I use these much more than anything else for running cables,

Sorry, I can't quite picture what you are doing. Do you mean you take
a length of trunking, discard the main body and take the thin top and
use that?

In message , Stephen
writes
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:22:06 +0100, bof
wrote:

[mini trunking lids]
I find I use these much more than anything else for running cables,

Sorry, I can't quite picture what you are doing. Do you mean you take
a length of trunking, discard the main body and take the thin top and
use that?

Spot on


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

The message
from Stephen contains these words:

I find that the poles are too rigid to push up from
above the light switches. the wall is in the way so they angle is
quite tight and they won't flex sufficiently. I have "solved" this by
pulling the rods down rather than pushing them up.

Those sentences are somewhat confusing. I'm not quite sure why you would
be pushing them UP from ABOVE the light switches.


Are there any tricks to make using them easier or do they have their
limitations?

Yes, of course they have their limitations. Different makes and models
have different degrees of flexibility, but in general terms they're one
of the genuine innovations of recent years and they're a great help.
I generally find the skinniest ones are the most useful. These things
save hours and hours of time. As with all such things, a mate makes a
big difference and can be essential when fishing round corners.
Ingenuity goes a long way and there are variations on old tricks that
can be adapted for use with these fibreglass rods.

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:50:59 +0100, Appin wrote:

Those sentences are somewhat confusing. I'm not quite sure why you would
be pushing them UP from ABOVE the light switches.

I had to have an L-shaped run of wi across the floor upstairs and
down the wall to the light switch. I thought I could do this one of
two ways: either across and down working from upstairs, or up and
across working from downstairs.

Ingenuity goes a long way and there are variations on old tricks that
can be adapted for use with these fibreglass rods.

Care to share?

Essentially you have 3 holes into the underfloor void:
- 2x light switch oval conduit, 1x light ceiling rose

Underfloor void is typically:
- Runs of joists, separated by oblong or X-strap blocking
- Oblong blocking may "occlude" cable rod access if joist offcuts
- Joists may be of differing depth per room depending on span

You need cable access rods &/or cable tape, plus chain & magnet.
You need access to the underfloor void "somewhere" - typically the
stair landing or box-room or some other small bedroom.

Typically push a short cable rod with loose chain up the conduit or
ceiling rose hole so the chain dangles on the plasterboard. Then push
lengths of cable rod/tape with magnet on the end along the "duct"
formed by the joists/floor/ceiling until you hear the chain snap to
the magnet. You may have to twirl the access rods holding the chain.
When you hear it snap, unscrew the chain from the access rod & tie on
a piece of string, withdraw the other access rods to pull through the
string then cable.

Alternatively you could try a flexible cable tape pushed up which
eventually makes its way along the ceiling void, this is usually quite
difficult - but go with what works with any given situation.

You will probably need to drill holes to "cross" joists from the other
light switch.

The only other alternative is to use MK Echo (or similar) wireless
light switches & receiver at the ceiling rose, or an occupancy sensor
and dispense with conventional light switches (might be buying a spare
occupancy sensor if ever going cheap).

There are true "extending fishing rod" access rods which are used in
lofts from the loft hatch to feed cable around ceiling rose & oval
conduits. They are quite expensive, about £76, but work incredibly
well - you just poke rods with long flexible chain up the ceiling rose/
switch drop and use the rod to snap onto them, typically with end-
mounted LED & magnet (double fitment).

Most cable access rod kits lack the flexible open-link chain, but you
can make one and open a link to feed it through an "eyelet" fitting on
the cable access rod. You need steel chain, not brass, for magnets to
work. Glue the magnet if it feels loose, the Silverline ones tend to
be quite strong but poorly retained in the fitting (nothing more than
a weak interference fit).

Cable access rods do not conform to the same thread standard, do a
Google on a previous post. You can also buy "magnet on bendy-rod to
handle" - quite useful but the magnet head is too large. Beyond that
the next tool is a boroscope camera, such as a USB type or the type
with LCD display on the other end (no PC/laptop required).
Electricians in a hurry will rip down a ceiling as it is quicker if
you have walls on floors or tanks on floors preventing access, only
needs some pieces of plasterboard and a skim.