Hello,

I have been using my Earlex vacuum connected to my wall chaser. I use
the dust bags which I have bought from Earlex (are generic ones just
as good?).

The Earlex web site says their bags filter to 5 microns. I have found
that when I do the first chase, the vacuum seems to suck up
everything.

I noticed that as I do more chases, more dust begins to fall from the
chaser, escaping the vacuum. I assume the bag clogs up. I think it
would be extravagant to change the bag every time I start a new chase!

That said, I can't grumble because the amount of dust falling is tiny
compared to not having the vacuum on at all. I forgot to put the hose
on the other day and there really was a difference!

The bag was getting heavy the other day so I emptied it and it was
full of fine dust, so it is certainly doing a good job but I remember
a thread here where someone said the only vacuum he found that could
cope with repeated wall chasing was a Dyson. Looking on line, it seems
the Dysons filter to 0.1 micron, so would capture even more.

Should I be content with what I have got or is it worth getting a
second hand Dyson just for this?

If so, is there any particular Dyson? I seem to remember DC04 and DC07
being mentioned before. What are the differences between them? Does it
have to be an upright?

I think someone mentioned making a prefilter from a bucket. That's a
good idea. Does it work just as well? My only worry is that with two
hoses, one prefilter, and one vacuum, that's quite a lot of things to
get in the way and trip over.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen wrote:

I noticed that as I do more chases, more dust begins to fall from the
chaser, escaping the vacuum. I assume the bag clogs up. I think it
would be extravagant to change the bag every time I start a new chase!

Re-usable/washable filter?

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/EXWDACC13.html

David

In article ,
Stephen writes:
Hello,

I have been using my Earlex vacuum connected to my wall chaser. I use
the dust bags which I have bought from Earlex (are generic ones just
as good?).

The Earlex web site says their bags filter to 5 microns. I have found
that when I do the first chase, the vacuum seems to suck up
everything.

I noticed that as I do more chases, more dust begins to fall from the
chaser, escaping the vacuum. I assume the bag clogs up. I think it
would be extravagant to change the bag every time I start a new chase!

That said, I can't grumble because the amount of dust falling is tiny
compared to not having the vacuum on at all. I forgot to put the hose
on the other day and there really was a difference!

The bag was getting heavy the other day so I emptied it and it was
full of fine dust, so it is certainly doing a good job but I remember
a thread here where someone said the only vacuum he found that could
cope with repeated wall chasing was a Dyson. Looking on line, it seems
the Dysons filter to 0.1 micron, so would capture even more.

Should I be content with what I have got or is it worth getting a
second hand Dyson just for this?

As you've discovered, a bagged cleaner is useless for the volume
and rate of dust generated by a wall chaser. You have to use
something which keeps the collected dust out of the air path.

If so, is there any particular Dyson? I seem to remember DC04 and DC07
being mentioned before. What are the differences between them? Does it
have to be an upright?

I've used a DC04 and DC07. Both work well. The DC07 is a more
recent and powerful model, but it has more smaller channels
which can get blocked by house dust if the thing has been
used with a grossly over-fulled dust container. Dust from the
wall chaser won't block them, but if the cleaner is of unknown
origin, I would dissasemble the top and blow the channels clear
before you start. Check the washable pre-motor filter too and
let it dry if it needed washing. (I've never had the post motor
filters on any of the family's Dysons get dirty -- I think you
would have to abuse very badly to do do that, such as grossly
over-fulled dust container whilst also removing the pre-motor
filter.

The dust canister will be very heavy when full of plaster/brick
dust, heavier than the handle is designed for, so beware of that.
The brick dust will also sand-blast the inside of the canister,
which doesn't affect operation, but SWMBO might not be happy
that it no longer looks like new.

Keep an eye on the pre-motor filter. Providing you don't grossly
over-fill the canister, it should last a day's chasing (many
canister empties). Rinse and leave to dry overnight. (I bought a
second one so I could swap them whilst one is drying.)

I think someone mentioned making a prefilter from a bucket. That's a
good idea. Does it work just as well? My only worry is that with two
hoses, one prefilter, and one vacuum, that's quite a lot of things to
get in the way and trip over.

If you're stuck with a bagged cleaner, interposing a cyclone
before the bag will help. Constructing a cyclone which really
separates out the finest dust isn't easy and it's this that
either cloggs or passes right through the bag, although the
type of dust (heavy) involved here is the best for cyclonic
separation. Other thing I would suggest for a non-Dyson cleaner
would be make sure the air outlet is directed outside, if you
don't want the house filled with fine dust. (Dyson traps all
that, so not an issue in this case.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

somewhere on this newsgroup was mention of a vortex
vacuum bucket thingy to get lumps of grit before the vacuum cleaner,
where was it?

[g]

On Sep 24, 11:50*am, Stephen wrote:

full of fine dust, so it is certainly doing a good job but I remember
a thread here where someone said the only vacuum he found that could
cope with repeated wall chasing was a Dyson. Looking on line, it seems
the Dysons filter to 0.1 micron, so would capture even more.

Should I be content with what I have got or is it worth getting a
second hand Dyson just for this?

A cyclone certainly does a good job. But dyson's reputation is enough
to keep me well away, there are better makes about.


If so, is there any particular Dyson?

all have plenty of suck and a cyclone, as do some other brands.


I think someone mentioned making a prefilter from a bucket. That's a
good idea. Does it work just as well? My only worry is that with two
hoses, one prefilter, and one vacuum, that's quite a lot of things to
get in the way and trip over.

That removes the bulk and much of the dust, enabling a small cleaner
to work, or a cyclone to run for much longer before emptying.

I've also heard of a tub of water being used to filter, but never seen
it in action.

One thing that differentiates cyclones is the filter that's used after
the cyclone before the motor for the finest dust. If its just a small
bit of sheet material its gong to clog easily. If its a big fat porous
sponge disc, the muck has to somewhat saturate the sponge before it
stops sucking.


NT

"george (dicegeorge)" writes:

somewhere on this newsgroup was mention of a vortex
vacuum bucket thingy to get lumps of grit before the vacuum cleaner,
where was it?

Can't be bothered to do a google groups search, but these pages describe
some home made http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/cyclones/

I made one myself out of an old spin-dryer. I keep meaning to write it
up and post it here.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

Jon Fairbairn writes:

"george (dicegeorge)" writes:

somewhere on this newsgroup was mention of a vortex
vacuum bucket thingy to get lumps of grit before the vacuum cleaner,
where was it?

Can't be bothered to do a google groups search, but these pages describe
some home made http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/cyclones/

I made one myself out of an old spin-dryer. I keep meaning to write it
up and post it here.

Finally did that. Verbiage he
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Spin-dryer-to-dust-cyclone.xhtml

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

On Oct 2, 6:45*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:
Jon Fairbairn writes:
"george (dicegeorge)" writes:

somewhere on this newsgroup was mention of a vortex
vacuum bucket thingy to get lumps of grit before the vacuum cleaner,
where was it?

Can't be bothered to do a google groups search, but these pages describe
some home made http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/cyclones/

I made one myself out of an old spin-dryer. *I keep meaning to write it
up and post it here.

Finally did that. Verbiage he
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Spin-dryer-to-dust-cyclone.xhtml


Nice job. I thought at first you were gong to run the spinner motor to
maximise extraction force.


NT

NT writes:

On Oct 2, 6:45Â*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:
Jon Fairbairn writes:
I made one myself out of an old spin-dryer. Â*I keep meaning to write it
up and post it here.

Finally did that. Verbiage he
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Spin-dryer-to-dust-cyclone.xhtml


Nice job. I thought at first you were gong to run the spinner motor to
maximise extraction force.

:-) I still have the motor and I sometimes wonder about making my own
turbine blades (I have some Al sheet in the shed) so that I can say I
used almost all of the spin dryer. I somehow doubt if I'll get round to
that, though. The pillar and bearing might get turned into a lazy suzan,
though it runs so smoothly there'd be a serious risk of centrifugal food
distribution.

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
I've looked at the ones that are made as eco-bollox for computer users
who can't be bothered to use the wall switch, but they don't seem to be
capable of supplying the amps needed for bigger power tools.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

On Oct 2, 7:59*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:
NT writes:
On Oct 2, 6:45*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:
Jon Fairbairn writes:
I made one myself out of an old spin-dryer. *I keep meaning to write it
up and post it here.

Finally did that. Verbiage he
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Spin-dryer-to-dust-cyclone.xhtml

Nice job. I thought at first you were gong to run the spinner motor to
maximise extraction force.

:-) I still have the motor and I sometimes wonder about making my own
turbine blades (I have some Al sheet in the shed) so that I can say I
used almost all of the spin dryer. I somehow doubt if I'll get round to
that, though. The pillar and bearing might get turned into a lazy suzan,
though it runs so smoothly there'd be a serious risk of centrifugal food
distribution.

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
I've looked at the ones that are made as eco-bollox for computer users
who can't be bothered to use the wall switch, but they don't seem to be
capable of supplying the amps needed for bigger power tools.

In principle theyre simple to make if you dont mind omitting the run-
on delay. Take a relay, remove the coil winding and fill the winding
space with a winding of enamelled wire designed to run at 4-6A. Put
this relay coil in in the live feed line to your power tool socket,
and power the vac up via the relay contacts. Now when the power tool
draws power, the vac comes on.

If you look at a few relays you'll notice some are easier to rewind
than others. A snubber on the switching contacts is a good plan.


NT

NT writes:

On Oct 2, 7:59Â*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
I've looked at the ones that are made as eco-bollox for computer users
who can't be bothered to use the wall switch, but they don't seem to be
capable of supplying the amps needed for bigger power tools.

In principle theyre simple to make

I know. Thirty five years ago the idea would have appealed, but nowadays
making circuits seems rather tedious and fiddly compared to routing and
grinding stuff.

if you dont mind omitting the run- on delay. Take a relay, remove the
coil winding and fill the winding space with a winding of enamelled
wire designed to run at 4-6A. Put this relay coil in in the live feed
line to your power tool socket, and power the vac up via the relay
contacts. Now when the power tool draws power, the vac comes on.

That's simpler than the versions I had in mind, though as you say it
won't do run-on, and implementing the delay by putting the relay inside
a bridge rectifier and a capacitor across it would require several whole
Farads. Though that almost makes it exciting enough to try...


--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

On Oct 4, 10:49*am, Jon Fairbairn wrote:
NT writes:
On Oct 2, 7:59*pm, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
I've looked at the ones that are made as eco-bollox for computer users
who can't be bothered to use the wall switch, but they don't seem to be
capable of supplying the amps needed for bigger power tools.

In principle theyre simple to make

I know. Thirty five years ago the idea would have appealed, but nowadays
making circuits seems rather tedious and fiddly compared to routing and
grinding stuff.

if you dont mind omitting the run- on delay. Take a relay, remove the
coil winding and fill the winding space with a winding of enamelled
wire designed to run at 4-6A. Put this relay coil in in the live feed
line to your power tool socket, and power the vac up via the relay
contacts. Now when the power tool draws power, the vac comes on.

That's simpler than the versions I had in mind, though as you say it
won't do run-on, and implementing the delay by putting the relay inside
a bridge rectifier and a capacitor across it would require several whole
Farads. Though that almost makes it exciting enough to try...

Then again how had is it to just keep the power tool running a couple
of seconds longer if is needed.


NT

On 2 Oct, 19:59, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.

You don't need one. All you really need is remote control of the
cyclone from where you're working. That's easier to find.

Andy Dingley writes:

On 2 Oct, 19:59, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.

You don't need one. All you really need is remote control of the
cyclone from where you're working. That's easier to find.

There's need and need. I can position the vacuum cleaner close enough to
the work that I don't need to move in order to turn it on with my foot.
I still manage to make the odd cut where I only remember the "press with
foot" part after the end of the cut when I look up and see the cloud of
dust. You could argue that what I need is better concentration, but
that's harder to get.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

Jon Fairbairn wrote:
Andy Dingley writes:

On 2 Oct, 19:59, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
You don't need one. All you really need is remote control of the
cyclone from where you're working. That's easier to find.

There's need and need. I can position the vacuum cleaner close enough to
the work that I don't need to move in order to turn it on with my foot.
I still manage to make the odd cut where I only remember the "press with
foot" part after the end of the cut when I look up and see the cloud of
dust. You could argue that what I need is better concentration, but
that's harder to get.

What I did to get over that problem was make up a short extension lead
with a double socket, 13 Amp plug and a foot switch on it. Plug the
extractor and tool into it, switch on the extractor and you can't use
the power tool until the foot switch is on.

Dave

Dave writes:

Jon Fairbairn wrote:
Andy Dingley writes:

On 2 Oct, 19:59, Jon Fairbairn wrote:

The main thing the cyclone lacks is one of those auto-start sockets.
You don't need one. All you really need is remote control of the
cyclone from where you're working. That's easier to find.

There's need and need. I can position the vacuum cleaner close enough to
the work that I don't need to move in order to turn it on with my foot.
I still manage to make the odd cut where I only remember the "press with
foot" part after the end of the cut when I look up and see the cloud of
dust. You could argue that what I need is better concentration, but
that's harder to get.

What I did to get over that problem was make up a short
extension lead with a double socket, 13 Amp plug and a foot
switch on it. Plug the extractor and tool into it, switch on
the extractor and you can't use the power tool until the
foot switch is on.

That's a good idea, thanks.
--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:59:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

As you've discovered, a bagged cleaner is useless for the volume
and rate of dust generated by a wall chaser. You have to use
something which keeps the collected dust out of the air path.

Having done some more chasing since my last post, I am revising my
opinion slightly. I notice that the dust that was escaping was being
ejected through a small slot on the back on the chaser. The base plate
pivots so that you can adjust the depth of cut and dust was escaping
from the small gap above the joint. I placed a bit of tape across it,
once the depth was set and that contained the dust.

Some dust also leaks from the outlet. I guess the plastic tube is not
a perfect fit. Perhaps I should wrap the joint in amalgamating tape?

I knocked the tube off accidentally and there was a LOT of dust, so I
think the vacuum is doing a really good job. That said, I wonder
whether the design of the chaser is also to thank? It seems very
effective at directing all the dust towards to outlet. I wonder
whether if the pipe was connected to the vacuum but the vacuum was
switched off, how much would still be thrown down the pipe into the
vacuum by the chaser?

I'm not brave enough to find out but I'm sure I did this a few months
ago when my vacuum was broke. I also remember sticking the hose out of
the window, when I was near a window!

I've used a DC04 and DC07. Both work well. The DC07 is a more
recent and powerful model

If I do find a bargain on ebay I may get one to try. Is the difference
between the 07 and 04 that noticeable?

If you're stuck with a bagged cleaner, interposing a cyclone
before the bag will help. Constructing a cyclone which really
separates out the finest dust isn't easy and it's this that
either cloggs or passes right through the bag, although the
type of dust (heavy) involved here is the best for cyclonic
separation.

I looked at the pre filters on the URL given earlier in this thread
but they were great big things. That's fine when they are for
stationary use in a workshop, as those were, but for moving around a
room, I think they might be too bulky and something else to trip over.

Thanks again.