Tim Downie wrote:
My trusty old Sony VTX-D800U has just gone on the blink and I think
unless I can bring it back from the dead, I'm looking for a new one
to mate with my TiVo.

It's just saying "no signal" but the signal is fine (things
daisy-chained downstream are working well). I've tried unplugging
it/replugging it etc. but that hasn't worked.

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but because
TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for the TiVo,
I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this field but would I
be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of the picture isn't
right?

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place to
source just one capacitor like this?

TIA

Tim

On 15/09/09 20:39, Tim Downie wrote:

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for
the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this field
but would I be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of the
picture isn't right?

Yep, capacitors (especially within PSUs are a common failure)

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place
to source just one capacitor like this?

Maplin, if you can't get same voltage, higher will be OK.

Actually they don't seem to do much of a range of single electrolytics
now, this one has tags rather than plain wire leads

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=12040

Maybe someone can offer you one from their odds and sods bin?

Andy Burns wrote:
On 15/09/09 20:39, Tim Downie wrote:

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a
look inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes
for the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in
this field but would I be right in assuming that capacitor in the
centre of the picture isn't right?

Yep, capacitors (especially within PSUs are a common failure)

Thanks to all for the advice. I've ordered a capacitor and will let you
know the outcome.

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
On 15/09/09 20:39, Tim Downie wrote:

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a
look inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes
for the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in
this field but would I be right in assuming that capacitor in the
centre of the picture isn't right?

Yep, capacitors (especially within PSUs are a common failure)

Thanks to all for the advice. I've ordered a capacitor and will let you
know the outcome.

Tim
Indeed. Most electronics is super reliable, and generally its one stray
thing that goes. Identify it and replace it and all is well.

Its the identifying that is the problem.

I had a TV years agpo that randomly lost colors..hitting it restored
them. One day even that failed to work.


I ran it caseless and prodded things with a long plastic knitting needle.

It became apparent that there were dry joints, so I looked at what I was
prodding and found eyelets instead of plated through holes Yuk!. These
looked distinctly dodgy, so I resoldered them on that card. That fixed
one set of probelms. Thenh I got mad and resoldered every single eyelet
on every board.

The set was perfect for several years until the house took a direct
lightning strike on the telephone wire. The TV went then as did anything
else on 'standby'..

Sigh. I liked that TV.

In your case that capacitors is almost certainly the output smoother of
a SMPS. It has to take a LOT of high frequency ripple current, and is
the one most likely to suffer if its even slightly suspect in the first
place. It will get hot and eventually either short, or cease to do its job.

I am pretty sure you have identified the correct cap.

Old valve sets are similar - the caps all dry out. Many a valve radio
will spring to life after all the paper and electrolytic caps are replaced..

At 11:05:55 Wed, 16 Sep 2009, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Indeed. Most electronics is super reliable, and generally its one stray
thing that goes. Identify it and replace it and all is well.
Its the identifying that is the problem.

How true...

I had a TV years agpo that randomly lost colors..hitting it restored
them. One day even that failed to work.

My CRT monitor is on the blink. It will run perfectly for hours and
then the picture goes almost black. The slightest tap on the casing is
often enough to bring it back to life. Sometimes it takes a thump.

I ran it caseless and prodded things with a long plastic knitting needle.

I've tried that, but frustratingly I can't find the fault. The soldered
joints on the PCB all seem to be sound. It will be shame to dump this
monitor since it's less strain on the eyes than my flat panel screen.

Old valve sets are similar - the caps all dry out. Many a valve radio
will spring to life after all the paper and electrolytic caps are replaced..

I have a 9-valve National HRO that still works after 70 years...

--
John Legon

In your case that capacitors is almost certainly the output smoother of a
SMPS. It has to take a LOT of high frequency ripple current, and is the
one most likely to suffer if its even slightly suspect in the first place.
It will get hot and eventually either short, or cease to do its job.

Actually, you've made a good point the many capacitors in that role are
properly specified to handle the high frequency, high amplitude ripple
current, and a bog standard electrolytic may fail very prematurely, even if
of the correct capacity and voltage.

SteveT

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...

Thanks to all for the advice. I've ordered a capacitor and will let you
know the outcome.

You will find the job easier by using a desoldering device to remove the
solder from both contacts before pulling the old capacitor out.
A manual suction device is the the best thing.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97040
There are lots to choose from on the Farnell site:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...1003126+500006
from around 3.40 to over 22 pounds. take your pick - I found these ok:
http://uk.farnell.com/miller-abeco/g...-gun/dp/419011

It will then be easy to mount the new capacitor passing the wires through
the holes.

Roger R

Roger R wrote:
"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...

Thanks to all for the advice. I've ordered a capacitor and will let
you know the outcome.

You will find the job easier by using a desoldering device to remove
the solder from both contacts before pulling the old capacitor out.

Got one already thanks. A handy tool.

Tim

On Sep 15, 8:39 pm, "Tim Downie"
wrote:
Tim Downie wrote:
My trusty old Sony VTX-D800U has just gone on the blink and I think
unless I can bring it back from the dead, I'm looking for a new one
to mate with my TiVo.

It's just saying "no signal" but the signal is fine (things
daisy-chained downstream are working well). I've tried unplugging
it/replugging it etc. but that hasn't worked.

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but because
TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for the TiVo,
I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this field but would I
be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of the picture isn't
right?

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place to
source just one capacitor like this?

TIA

Tim

Maplin order code DT72P should do the job if you have a convenient
store, otherwise I find eBay can be cost effective for small
quantities of parts when including P&P.

On 15/09/09 20:53, airsmoothed wrote:

Maplin order code DT72P should do the job

Heh, their own search page failed to turn that up ...

On Sep 15, 8:57 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
On 15/09/09 20:53, airsmoothed wrote:

Maplin order code DT72P should do the job

Heh, their own search page failed to turn that up ...

Yeah, it's probably great if one wants a bangin' car stereo for one's
Corsa 1.0 with blue lights in the washer jets but a pain in the butt
if you want to find a capacitor :-/

On 15/09/09 21:37, airsmoothed wrote:

On Sep 15, 8:57 pm, Andy wrote:
On 15/09/09 20:53, airsmoothed wrote:

Maplin order code DT72P should do the job

Heh, their own search page failed to turn that up ...

Yeah, it's probably great if one wants a bangin' car stereo for one's
Corsa 1.0 with blue lights in the washer jets

Funny you should mention that, it did turn up a 1Farad capacitor for
smoothing power supply to car stereos, $DEITY knows how big it actually
is, but it comes with a 4 digit LED display ...

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.
http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg
I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but because
TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for the TiVo,
I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this field but would I
be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of the picture isn't
right?

Yup

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms?

Quite possibly, bad capacitors were a major cause of computer failures
from about 2001 onwards due to a stolen recipe for the electrolyte by
chinese companies, which caused just the effect you're seeing.

http://badcaps.net shows the same effect on motherboards

I had a motherboard myself with this problem, and i've diagnosed a few
more over the last couple of years (my "dead" machine failed just over
3 years ago, and by all accounts, it had lasted far longer than most
with this issue). It drove me sodding mad for almost 18 months as it
became increasingly less stable - the "bulged crown" effect was almost
imperceptible on mine unless you compared the others nearby with a
light source to bounce a reflection off the top !

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place to
source just one capacitor like this?

Any electronics shop, Maplin etc should be able to provide one.

In message , Tim Downie
writes
Tim Downie wrote:
My trusty old Sony VTX-D800U has just gone on the blink and I think
unless I can bring it back from the dead, I'm looking for a new one
to mate with my TiVo.

It's just saying "no signal" but the signal is fine (things
daisy-chained downstream are working well). I've tried unplugging
it/replugging it etc. but that hasn't worked.

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes
for the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this
field but would I be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of
the picture isn't right?


Spray it with WD40 (well, don't)

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place
to source just one capacitor like this?

Should be easy - Maplin, CPC, RS etc

You're more likely to find one in a 16v range, I probably have some (and
if not will be putting in an RS order in the next few days)


TIA

Tim

--
geoff

In article , Tim Downie
writes
Tim Downie wrote:
My trusty old Sony VTX-D800U has just gone on the blink and I think
unless I can bring it back from the dead, I'm looking for a new one
to mate with my TiVo.

It's just saying "no signal" but the signal is fine (things
daisy-chained downstream are working well). I've tried unplugging
it/replugging it etc. but that hasn't worked.

With a view to bringing it back for the dead I thought I'd have a look
inside the case for anything obvious. Well, I found this.

http://www.zen31010.zen.co.uk/images...wcapacitor.jpg

I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but because
TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for the TiVo,
I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this field but would I
be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of the picture isn't
right?

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Would a replacement be easy to source and where would be the best place to
source just one capacitor like this?

Try these:
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691952


The cap that has gone is in the power supply section so needs to be a
special type designed for switched mode supplies (low ESR/ESL, high
ripple, high frequency) or it wont work as well and will have a short
life.

The one linked to fits the bill and I understand that Farnell do free
post for small web orders so you'll get 5 of these (min order qty) for
just over a quid.

The ones linked to from Maplin don't show a spec so there's no way of
knowing if they are up to the job.

Any stock problems and these will also work and have a slightly better
spec (at a slightly higher cost):
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979

--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:55:38 +0100, fred wrote:

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Try these:
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691952

That's only 1000 instead of 2200.

Any stock problems and these will also work and have a slightly better
spec (at a slightly higher cost):
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979

Seems to be the proper replacement, assuming it's physically small enough
to fit. Strangely:
Farnell do these for 59p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 5, free postage,
total £3.44
CPC do these for 55p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 1, postage £5.95,
total £7.48
seeing as Farnell and CPC are supposedly the same company...

In article , Paul Ratcliffe
writes
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:55:38 +0100, fred wrote:

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Try these:
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691952

That's only 1000 instead of 2200.

Ooops, sorry bout that, the one below is the right one and still pretty
cheap.

Any stock problems and these will also work and have a slightly better
spec (at a slightly higher cost):
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979

Seems to be the proper replacement, assuming it's physically small enough
to fit.
Yes, agreed

Strangely:
Farnell do these for 59p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 5, free postage,
total £3.44
CPC do these for 55p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 1, postage £5.95,
total £7.48
seeing as Farnell and CPC are supposedly the same company...
Different cost models, free post offset by higher margins on the goods,
quite handy for little orders like this one.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

In message , fred writes
In article , Paul Ratcliffe
writes
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:55:38 +0100, fred wrote:

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Try these:
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691952

That's only 1000 instead of 2200.

Ooops, sorry bout that, the one below is the right one and still pretty
cheap.

Any stock problems and these will also work and have a slightly better
spec (at a slightly higher cost):
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979

Seems to be the proper replacement, assuming it's physically small enough
to fit.
Yes, agreed

Strangely:
Farnell do these for 59p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 5, free postage,
total £3.44
CPC do these for 55p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 1, postage £5.95,
total £7.48
seeing as Farnell and CPC are supposedly the same company...
Different cost models, free post offset by higher margins on the goods,
quite handy for little orders like this one.

But then, I could have sent him one for nothing ...

--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , fred writes
In article , Paul Ratcliffe
writes
On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:55:38 +0100, fred wrote:

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Try these:
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691952

That's only 1000 instead of 2200.

Ooops, sorry bout that, the one below is the right one and still pretty
cheap.

Any stock problems and these will also work and have a slightly better
spec (at a slightly higher cost):
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979

Seems to be the proper replacement, assuming it's physically small enough
to fit.
Yes, agreed

Strangely:
Farnell do these for 59p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 5, free postage,
total £3.44
CPC do these for 55p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 1, postage £5.95,
total £7.48
seeing as Farnell and CPC are supposedly the same company...
Different cost models, free post offset by higher margins on the goods,
quite handy for little orders like this one.

But then, I could have sent him one for nothing ...

--
geoff

Can I have one for free?

Adam

In article , geoff
writes
In message , fred writes
In article , Paul Ratcliffe
writes

http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...10v/dp/9691979
Seems to be the proper replacement, assuming it's physically small enough
to fit.
Yes, agreed

Strangely:
Farnell do these for 59p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 5, free postage,
total £3.44
CPC do these for 55p each exc. VAT, min. qty. 1, postage £5.95,
total £7.48
seeing as Farnell and CPC are supposedly the same company...
Different cost models, free post offset by higher margins on the goods,
quite handy for little orders like this one.

But then, I could have sent him one for nothing ...

Are we doing secret santa this year?

I've been good :-)
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Tim Downie wrote:
I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for
the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible.

Actually, that's wrong, they haven't given up. :-)

The TiVo remote control database (and suggestions etc..) is still in
active support for newly released set-top boxes in DTT, Satellite and Cable.

For really new set top boxes, and with access to a Philips Pronto
learning remote, the IR commands of the original remote control can be
captured and sent to TiVo Inc.

http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/stb-unsupported.htm

There is a lot of assistance on the UK section TiVo Community. We are a
helpful bunch compared to Sky who ru(i)n the phone line support.

Good luck with the cap repair!

--
Adrian C

"Adrian C" wrote in message
...
Tim Downie wrote:
I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes for
the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible.

Actually, that's wrong, they haven't given up. :-)

The TiVo remote control database (and suggestions etc..) is still in
active support for newly released set-top boxes in DTT, Satellite and
Cable.

Um, where's this list of STBs that they're now supporting (that's newer than
2 years old)?

For really new set top boxes, and with access to a Philips Pronto learning
remote, the IR commands of the original remote control can be captured and
sent to TiVo Inc.

No doubt they CAN be, but is that happening fast enough to cope with the
speed with which new STBs are coming out? I haven't got a Pronto or know
anyone who has. A support system that relies on the goodwill of the TiVo
community isn't what I'd call proper support by a manufacturer.

Having said that, given the age of my TiVo, I'm amazed that I get any
support at all. ;-)

http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/stb-unsupported.htm

There is a lot of assistance on the UK section TiVo Community. We are a
helpful bunch compared to Sky who ru(i)n the phone line support.

Good luck with the cap repair!

Thanks

Tim

Tim Downie wrote:

Um, where's this list of STBs that they're now supporting (that's newer
than 2 years old)?


Updated in your Tivo. Unfortunately it's ordered by an assortment of
manufacturer names including some like "freeview 1 of 3" before dropping
to the second level list of receiver codes to try out.

Agreed, it would be helpful if this list were published.

For really new set top boxes, and with access to a Philips Pronto
learning remote, the IR commands of the original remote control can be
captured and sent to TiVo Inc.

No doubt they CAN be, but is that happening fast enough to cope with
the speed with which new STBs are coming out? I haven't got a Pronto or
know anyone who has. A support system that relies on the goodwill of
the TiVo community isn't what I'd call proper support by a manufacturer.

Unfortunately Thomson, the manufacturer quit any type of support a long
long time ago.

Having said that, given the age of my TiVo, I'm amazed that I get any
support at all. ;-)

TiVo US are still up and running and supporting the software update
services, as contracted. They don't obviously have anyone here employed
to purchase every set-top box sold in the UK market and make tests with
the UK TiVo hardware, so it's down to volunteers.

--
Adrian C

In article ,
Adrian C wrote:

Unfortunately Thomson, the manufacturer quit any type of support a long
long time ago.

Support from them when they were still flogging the machines was pretty
crap IME...

Having said that, given the age of my TiVo, I'm amazed that I get any
support at all. ;-)

I'm amazed there are still TiVo users here - I was begining to think I was
the only one left ;-)

Really wishing I'd paid the lifetime though....

Talking of TiVo, mine is beginning to get sick (bubbling mud in quiet parts
and disk whine). While I'm sure it could be repaired I'm pondering giving
up and jumping to Virgin Media V+

Anyone here got experience of V+ box? People complain it's slow to change
channel but I'm used to TiVo controlling Skybox so...

Darren

On 16/09/09 07:56, dmc wrote:

I'm amazed there are still TiVo users here - I was begining to think I was
the only one left ;-)

Really wishing I'd paid the lifetime though....

I know TiVos were well respected, though I've never used one, do they
still have "killer" features that aren't available anywhere else?

"dmc" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Adrian C wrote:

Unfortunately Thomson, the manufacturer quit any type of support a long
long time ago.

Support from them when they were still flogging the machines was pretty
crap IME...

Having said that, given the age of my TiVo, I'm amazed that I get any
support at all. ;-)

I'm amazed there are still TiVo users here - I was begining to think I was
the only one left ;-)

Really wishing I'd paid the lifetime though....

We took on gamble on it when we bought ours (just as they were disappearing
from the shops. So glad we did now. ;-)

Talking of TiVo, mine is beginning to get sick (bubbling mud in quiet
parts
and disk whine). While I'm sure it could be repaired I'm pondering giving
up and jumping to Virgin Media V+

Ours eventually needed a new hard-drive from tivoland but other than that,
has been absolutely reliable. Probably worth a shot if your's is getting
whiney.

Tim

In article ,
Tim Downie wrote:
I know these things aren't normally worth attempting to repair but
because TiVo have just about giving up supporting new Freeview boxes
for the TiVo, I'd like to repair it if possible. I'm no expert in this
field but would I be right in assuming that capacitor in the centre of
the picture isn't right?

If it is U/S, would it be a likely cause of the symptoms? It has 2200
microF, 10V, HD(M), 105C and HD243 printed on it.

Yes. The 105C suggests it's in a SMPS and that is the most likely source
of trouble.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.