totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

cheers

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

cheers

Planning? It may come under permitted development. Best have one that
does not go right to the house foundations - an inner basement - so the
foundations do not move. It needs to be tanked and have air vents . A lot
of mess, but if you are not living there and space is at a premium in your
area then worth going for. The utilities, hobby rooms, storage can all be
there. The staircase will take space from the ground floor. Make sure it
is very well insulated.

You could run a heat pipe around the perimeter of the basement, which will
cool and vent the house. Could be in the earth. Popular in Germany.

Some companies specialise in basements.

On 10 Sep, 13:10, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Jethro" wrote in message

...

totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

cheers

Planning? *It may come under permitted development. * Best have one that
does not go right to the house foundations - an inner basement - so the
foundations do not move. *It needs to be tanked and have air vents . A lot
of mess, but if you are not living there and space is at a premium in your
area then worth going for. *The utilities, hobby rooms, storage can all be
there. *The staircase will take space from the ground floor. *Make sure it
is very well insulated.

You could run a heat pipe around the perimeter of the basement, which will
cool and vent the house. * Could be in the earth. *Popular in Germany..

Some companies specialise in basements.

i was wondering what effect removing that much earth would have on the
rest, especially near the foundations ? I guess you could brace the
resulting void with steel girders ? I presume by tanking you mean
creating a waterproof seal to prevent flooding ? Never heard of a heat
pipe ?

On 10 Sep, 13:21, Jethro wrote:
On 10 Sep, 13:10, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:



"Jethro" wrote in message

....

totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

cheers

Planning? *It may come under permitted development. * Best have one that
does not go right to the house foundations - an inner basement - so the
foundations do not move. *It needs to be tanked and have air vents . A lot
of mess, but if you are not living there and space is at a premium in your
area then worth going for. *The utilities, hobby rooms, storage can all be
there. *The staircase will take space from the ground floor. *Make sure it
is very well insulated.

You could run a heat pipe around the perimeter of the basement, which will
cool and vent the house. * Could be in the earth. *Popular in Germany.

Some companies specialise in basements.

i was wondering what effect removing that much earth would have on the
rest, especially near the foundations ? I guess you could brace the
resulting void with steel girders ? I presume by tanking you mean
creating a waterproof seal to prevent flooding ? Never heard of a heat
pipe ?

Founds need to be underpinned somehow, with concrete piles and a ring
beam, girders etc. Job done a lot in expensive London houses.
It you remove earth within a 45 degree cone under the founds, you are
removing support. An "inner basement" could work it you had big house,
but note there may be internal loadbearing walls with foundations too.
Simon.

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:41:26 -0700, Jethro wrote:

totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-)

Ours runs under most of the house, and is all poured concrete walls of
between 9" and 12" thick with a few 12x12" concrete pillars supporting the
floors above. It's divided into three rooms, so there are also some walls
down there helping to support the house above.

I suspect it'd be a difficult and expensive job to do that to a house
after the fact; Drivel's idea of an 'inner' basement might be a lot easier
to do.

cheers

Jules

In article
,
Jethro wrote:
totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing. And even
then requires what is effectively underpinning. They don't have the height
required by modern regs. A neighbour had this done recently and the total
bill was 80 grand. Including a rather nice kitchen.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jethro wrote:
On 10 Sep, 13:10, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"Jethro" wrote in message

...

totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?
cheers
Planning? It may come under permitted development. Best have one that
does not go right to the house foundations - an inner basement - so the
foundations do not move. It needs to be tanked and have air vents . A lot
of mess, but if you are not living there and space is at a premium in your
area then worth going for. The utilities, hobby rooms, storage can all be
there. The staircase will take space from the ground floor. Make sure it
is very well insulated.

You could run a heat pipe around the perimeter of the basement, which will
cool and vent the house. Could be in the earth. Popular in Germany.

Some companies specialise in basements.

i was wondering what effect removing that much earth would have on the
rest, especially near the foundations ? I guess you could brace the
resulting void with steel girders ? I presume by tanking you mean
creating a waterproof seal to prevent flooding ? Never heard of a heat
pipe ?

I saw my ssisters house being build in germany with te mandatory cellar.

Essentially the cellar was a reinforced cast concrete box, inside a DPM
inside a polystyrene box.


It WAS the footings!!

And therein lies your problem. You need to brace the footings, but also
insulate the walls..and a styrene box inside the footings will not do that.

I would imagine one way to do it would be to dig as for underpinnings,
deep down outside the wall, and add more concrete and some insulation
outside the house, then back fill.

Inside, you need to essentially underpin the footings as you would
normally - i.e. a section at a time, dig below the footings, shove in
insulation, then concerte then DPM then more concrete.


Unless the house is so large that you can dig up a single room less
about 3 feet, and cast a cellar inside that space..

Also, be ware of flooding issues. That German house got filled with raw
sewage. Yes the sewers were below cellar level, but they blocked. People
higher up the hill...

British sewers wont be. By and large, so saniflows to do the dirty work,
and a STRONG possibility that a backed up sewer will render the house
uninhabitable for weeks. Or make it a water free zone.

Personally, if I were building from scratch again, I'd do it for the
hell of it, but retrofit? No WAY Jose..;-(

Simon wrote:
On 10 Sep, 13:21, Jethro wrote:
On 10 Sep, 13:10, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:



"Jethro" wrote in message
...
totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?
cheers
Planning? It may come under permitted development. Best have one that
does not go right to the house foundations - an inner basement - so the
foundations do not move. It needs to be tanked and have air vents . A lot
of mess, but if you are not living there and space is at a premium in your
area then worth going for. The utilities, hobby rooms, storage can all be
there. The staircase will take space from the ground floor. Make sure it
is very well insulated.
You could run a heat pipe around the perimeter of the basement, which will
cool and vent the house. Could be in the earth. Popular in Germany.
Some companies specialise in basements.
i was wondering what effect removing that much earth would have on the
rest, especially near the foundations ? I guess you could brace the
resulting void with steel girders ? I presume by tanking you mean
creating a waterproof seal to prevent flooding ? Never heard of a heat
pipe ?

Founds need to be underpinned somehow, with concrete piles and a ring
beam, girders etc. Job done a lot in expensive London houses.
It you remove earth within a 45 degree cone under the founds, you are
removing support. An "inner basement" could work it you had big house,
but note there may be internal loadbearing walls with foundations too.
Simon.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

And do people really do it? London eh? where horizontal space is
priceless..and people have more money than sense..

On 10 Sep, 13:39, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
* *Jethro wrote:

totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing. And even
then requires what is effectively underpinning. They don't have the height
required by modern regs. A neighbour had this done recently and the total
bill was 80 grand. Including a rather nice kitchen.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

There was mention of this being done in London. I have a cousin
married to one of the 'much money and possibly no sense ' brigade and
they had this done. The guy is an oenophile and not only did they go
down to create a room under the house but he got them to go down yet
further for a wine cellar - only they met the Thames coming in to meet
them !

Rob

"Jethro" wrote in message
...
totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

cheers

Its very fashionable in London,

http://www.findaproperty.com/display...&storyid=10410

but not without the occasional problem, this was just round the corner from
a house I own in Battersea.

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3123350


-

In article
,
Rob G wrote:
Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing. And even
then requires what is effectively underpinning. They don't have the
height required by modern regs. A neighbour had this done recently and
the total bill was 80 grand. Including a rather nice kitchen.


There was mention of this being done in London. I have a cousin
married to one of the 'much money and possibly no sense ' brigade and
they had this done. The guy is an oenophile and not only did they go
down to create a room under the house but he got them to go down yet
further for a wine cellar - only they met the Thames coming in to meet
them !

I could see the reasons for it when prices were sky high - just think of
the costs if selling to buy something that bit bigger. Other thing is most
of the houses round here are a similar size - until you go to the huge
ones. So if you've got kids at a school you like etc or just want to stay
in the area it might make sense.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10 Sep, 18:02, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
* *Rob G wrote:

Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing. And even
then requires what is effectively underpinning. They don't have the
height required by modern regs. A neighbour had this done recently and
the total bill was 80 grand. Including a rather nice kitchen.
There was mention of this being done in London. *I have a cousin
married to one of the 'much money and possibly no sense ' brigade and
they had this done. *The guy is an oenophile and not only did they go
down to create a room under the house but he got them to go down yet
further for a wine cellar - only they met the Thames coming in to meet
them !

I could see the reasons for it when prices were sky high - just think of
the costs if selling to buy something that bit bigger. Other thing is most
of the houses round here are a similar size - until you go to the huge
ones. So if you've got kids at a school you like etc or just want to stay
in the area it might make sense.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

* * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

This one didn't make that sense as they were both retired - the only
sense was accommodating grandchildren !

In article
,
Rob G wrote:
I could see the reasons for it when prices were sky high - just think
of the costs if selling to buy something that bit bigger. Other thing
is most of the houses round here are a similar size - until you go to
the huge ones. So if you've got kids at a school you like etc or just
want to stay in the area it might make sense.


This one didn't make that sense as they were both retired - the only
sense was accommodating grandchildren !

Could be they couldn't afford it till now. ;-)

The house that backs into here is the same. Fabulous loft conversion going
across the rear addition too. Beautifully done - looks like the house was
built with it. Basement conversion too - and a huge architect designed
conservatory. They've spent more on the house than it would be worth
without. And their kids have just left home.

It's unusual round here in having a garage - due to being a corner plot.
And they've converted that into an office or something. The driveway isn't
really long enough to take a car. Although they still park theirs on it.
Overhanging the pavement by a foot or so.

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Owain wrote:
On 10 Sep, 12:41, Jethro wrote:
totally idle curiousity, but what would be involved if you wanted to
have a basement ... obviously a bit of digging :-) but what structural
aspects, and what planning ones ?

If you have a two storey house and you add a basement it becomes a 3-
storey one, and additional fire precautions may apply.

That doesn't make sense since it's exit distance (therefore time) in event
of a fire that matters. And in this respect a basement will be the same as
a first floor?

Owain

--
*Why isn't there mouse-flavoured cat food?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:42:46 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article
,
Rob G wrote:
I could see the reasons for it when prices were sky high - just think
of the costs if selling to buy something that bit bigger. Other thing
is most of the houses round here are a similar size - until you go to
the huge ones. So if you've got kids at a school you like etc or just
want to stay in the area it might make sense.


This one didn't make that sense as they were both retired - the only
sense was accommodating grandchildren !

Could be they couldn't afford it till now. ;-)

Or they had descructive kids, so waited until they'd left before they
invested time and money doing it how they wanted it.

The driveway
isn't really long enough to take a car. Although they still park theirs
on it. Overhanging the pavement by a foot or so.

Hmm, nip round there with a gas-axe and lop off the end 12" or so. That'll
learn 'em. :-)

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:39:27 +0100, a certain chimpanzee, "Dave
Plowman (News)" randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing. And even
then requires what is effectively underpinning. They don't have the height
required by modern regs. A neighbour had this done recently and the total
bill was 80 grand. Including a rather nice kitchen.

Around here, it's also the thing. But 'around here' is the ****ty
parts of a large Northern city, now inhabited by students. The
business model of the owners of the student houses (after removing all
the supporting structure from the roof void to squeeze a couple of
bedrooms up there) is to cram an extra couple of bedrooms into the
sub-floor void by digging down below the foundations, lay a concrete
slab on a notional amount of insulation on a damp-proof membrane, and
slap a thin coat of a waterproof render on the walls. Part of their
business model relies on a) hoping Building Control don't drive past,
and b) not speaking English when they do.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Hugo Nebula wrote:
Plowman (News)" randomly hit the keyboard

Well, converting existing cellars round here is the in thing.

Around here, it's also the thing. But 'around here' is the ****ty
parts of a large Northern city, now inhabited by students. The
business model of the owners of the student houses (after removing all
the supporting structure from the roof void to squeeze a couple of
bedrooms up there) is to cram an extra couple of bedrooms into the
sub-floor void by digging down below the foundations, lay a concrete
slab on a notional amount of insulation on a damp-proof membrane, and
slap a thin coat of a waterproof render on the walls.

I lived in one of those in Leamington. My cellar room was actually not
bad, since I'm not very tall (the other guys in the house had to stoop
when they came in). It was a huge room, being basically the entire floor
area of the house, though I did have the gas meter overhanging one end
of the sofa that was in there. This was also the room I mentioned a
while ago where the NTL installer put the cable in through the extractor
fan.

The bad room in that house was the loft; it had been "converted" with a
bit of plasterboard and a Velux window, but an actual staircase was
apparently too much effort so the hatch and aluminium ladder remained.
The ladder blocked the door into one of the other rooms, so had to be
moved when not in use. There was no real furniture up there (couldn't
get it through the hatch, I guess) so the girl who lived there kept most
of her clothes in the big old wardrobe on the landing and just took up
the next day's stuff when she went to bed. She didn't have the whole
wardrobe to herself though - despite being a freestanding item of
furniture, half of it had been used to contain the hot water tank.

How she never fell off the ladder and down the stairwell after returning
from the pub, I do not know.

Still, it was cheap (my palatial room was £33 a week in 2003 IIRC) and
we had a lot of fun living there.

Pete

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:42:46 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article
,
Rob G wrote:
I could see the reasons for it when prices were sky high - just think
of the costs if selling to buy something that bit bigger. Other thing
is most of the houses round here are a similar size - until you go to
the huge ones. So if you've got kids at a school you like etc or just
want to stay in the area it might make sense.


This one didn't make that sense as they were both retired - the only
sense was accommodating grandchildren !

Could be they couldn't afford it till now. ;-)

Or they had descructive kids, so waited until they'd left before they
invested time and money doing it how they wanted it.

The driveway
isn't really long enough to take a car. Although they still park theirs
on it. Overhanging the pavement by a foot or so.

Hmm, nip round there with a gas-axe and lop off the end 12" or so. That'll
learn 'em. :-)

I had a friend who had a drive like this

the warden would come around about once a week and ticket them

tim

In article ,
tim..... wrote:
Hmm, nip round there with a gas-axe and lop off the end 12" or so.
That'll learn 'em. :-)

I had a friend who had a drive like this

the warden would come around about once a week and ticket them

The privatized 'wardens' round here haven't got the authority to do that.

--
*It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.