Hello,

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same? Many diverters seem
to use a narrow flexible pipe as feed/overflow to/from the water butt.
I remember once seeing an advert for a diverter that used much bigger
pipes, claiming that the narrow pipes got blocked easily or would
become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour. Is this true or was
it marketing spin?

I think that model used standard 32mm waste. Would it be easy to
connect that to a water butt? Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank
connector?

I can't remember the make of that diverter and have not found any from
google. Does anyone know the make and whether it still exits?

I have found pages selling "rain sava". It is not explicitly stated
but I think that sued standard overflow pipe; does it? If so, that
would be useful if someone wanted to customise the installation and
run long pipe runs as pipe and elbows etc. are readily available. Has
anyone got any experience, good or bad, with the rain sava?

I have heard some people pump the water to a header tank in the loft
to flush their toilets. I presume you run the pipe u[p the side of the
house and into the eaves? How do you prevent the butt, pump, and pipe
from freezing in the winter?

I have also read some web pages about people using a pump to deliver
water at one bar so that the toilet fills up faster and apparently it
can be connected to the washing machine if above one bar. How do you
do this; what type of pump is required?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:28:52 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same? Many diverters seem
to use a narrow flexible pipe as feed/overflow to/from the water butt.

I'm taking the other option, and running *all* the drain into the water
barrel, then just having an equal-diameter overflow into the drain below.

(that's partly because I've never seen a diverter on this side of the
Pond anyway - at least not in any local DIY place. Plus I don't want
something that might clog up, and a bit of flow through the barrel seems
like a good idea anyway)

cheers

Jules

On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same? Many diverters seem
to use a narrow flexible pipe as feed/overflow to/from the water butt.
I remember once seeing an advert for a diverter that used much bigger
pipes, claiming that the narrow pipes got blocked easily or would
become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour. Is this true or was
it marketing spin?

I think that model used standard 32mm waste. Would it be easy to
connect that to a water butt? Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank
connector?

Pond supplies are usually a good source of tank connectors and the
like, eg http://www.cdaquatics.co.uk/catalog/..._54_66_68.html

Matt

On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same?

Wickes are good. They have cheaply priced diverters, butt linking kits
and drain taps. Black plastic in green poly bags, near the garden
hoses.

For butts, the guy who sells a vast range of IBCs, mango pickle tubs
et al from the Forest of Dean is very good, if you're local.

There are two sorts of diverter: manual flap valves, and automatic
spill weirs. Don't get a manual, you'll never bother to switch it.
Automatic is also simpler, more reliable and cheaper to make.

Rain in a drainpipe mostly runs down the inner surface of the pipe
(capillary effects), rather than cascading through the middle. The
simplest diverter (which Wickes sell for less than the effort of
making it) is a smaller pipe placed inside a piece of downspout,
constructed to make a circular dam inside this surface. A side outlet
takes water away from this dam and into the butt. If the butt is full,
water in the pipe backs up and the weir of the dam overflows down the
middle to the drainpipe's normal outlet. Similarly if the rain is
torrential and too much for the narrow butt pipe.

If a manual diverter is set to "capture" and it's torrential, you get
an uncontrolled overflow somewhere you don't expect.

One problem with the simple weirs is that they need to be around the
same height as the water level in the butt. This only becomes a
problem if you've no downspout adjacent to the butt, but instead want
to have the butt in one place and the main downspout elsewehere (e.g.
my workshop and its new gutters). With a manual divert valve it's
easy, just place the diverter above the butt in a short stub of
downpipe, then run more gutter sideways to the main downpipe. With an
automatic weir you _can_ also do this, provided that you butt has a
lid on it that's well-enough sealed to cause enough back-pressure in
the hose to it that you can get the weir to overflow when the butt is
full. Otherwise just let the butt overflow, if that's acceptable - it
doesn't happen that often and it was raining heavily anyway!

the narrow pipes got blocked easily

Keep the leaves out.

become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour.

You don't put that much water through them during a deluge. See above.

Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank connector?

Wickes. Plenty of connector and hose bits.

I have found pages selling "rain sava".

Rain Sava is good, but expensive. It's an automatic weir, with a
sliding bit for manual shutoff too (seems pointless IMHO)

I have heard some people pump the water to a header tank in the loft
to flush their toilets.

"Grey water" is a big topic these days. IMHO it needs more storage
volume than I can warrant. My system (planned) is recycling the shower
waste (re-filled daily) so can be smaller than a system that must wait
for rainstorms.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:

SNIP

the narrow pipes got blocked easily

Keep the leaves out.

Came across one a few weeks ago where the downpipe above the weir diverter
was blocked solid with a plug of leaves a good 6" long.

Original call was 'gutter overflowing' but when I looked it was as clear as
a bell. Lady mentioned in passing that despite the recent rain the water
butt was empty, which gave me the clue on where to look.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message
,
Andy Dingley writes
On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same?

Wickes are good. They have cheaply priced diverters, butt linking kits
and drain taps. Black plastic in green poly bags, near the garden
hoses.

For butts, the guy who sells a vast range of IBCs, mango pickle tubs
et al from the Forest of Dean is very good, if you're local.

There are two sorts of diverter: manual flap valves, and automatic
spill weirs. Don't get a manual, you'll never bother to switch it.
Automatic is also simpler, more reliable and cheaper to make.

Rain in a drainpipe mostly runs down the inner surface of the pipe
(capillary effects), rather than cascading through the middle. The
simplest diverter (which Wickes sell for less than the effort of
making it) is a smaller pipe placed inside a piece of downspout,
constructed to make a circular dam inside this surface. A side outlet
takes water away from this dam and into the butt. If the butt is full,
water in the pipe backs up and the weir of the dam overflows down the
middle to the drainpipe's normal outlet. Similarly if the rain is
torrential and too much for the narrow butt pipe.

If a manual diverter is set to "capture" and it's torrential, you get
an uncontrolled overflow somewhere you don't expect.

One problem with the simple weirs is that they need to be around the
same height as the water level in the butt. This only becomes a
problem if you've no downspout adjacent to the butt, but instead want
to have the butt in one place and the main downspout elsewehere (e.g.
my workshop and its new gutters). With a manual divert valve it's
easy, just place the diverter above the butt in a short stub of
downpipe, then run more gutter sideways to the main downpipe. With an
automatic weir you _can_ also do this, provided that you butt has a
lid on it that's well-enough sealed to cause enough back-pressure in
the hose to it that you can get the weir to overflow when the butt is
full. Otherwise just let the butt overflow, if that's acceptable - it
doesn't happen that often and it was raining heavily anyway!

the narrow pipes got blocked easily

Keep the leaves out.

Choose a length of gutter not likely to collect leaves.

become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour.

You don't put that much water through them during a deluge. See above.

Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank connector?

Wickes. Plenty of connector and hose bits.

B+Q do a diverter 7ukp or so. The hose is not a tight fit to the spigots
and will drip when the butt is full.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:03:34 -0500, Jules
wrote:

I'm taking the other option, and running *all* the drain into the water
barrel, then just having an equal-diameter overflow into the drain below.

What size pipes are you using? My problem is how to connect large
pipes to a butt. I have seen tank connectors for 15, 20, and 22 mm
pipe but nothing bigger. How will you connect 40 or 68 mm pipe to and
from the butt? The reply about pond suppliers is interesting, I will
look into that.

Thanks,
Stephen

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:10:22 -0700 (PDT), matthelliwell
wrote:

Pond supplies are usually a good source of tank connectors and the
like, eg http://www.cdaquatics.co.uk/catalog/..._54_66_68.html

Thanks very much. That's exactly what I needed, for someone to turn me
around and point me in a new direction. I had stared and stared at
plumbers merchants and only found connectors for standard 15, 20, and
22 mm pipe. Why did I not think of pond supplies before? The few
filters I have seen look very much like header tanks with 32mm inlets
and outlets. I am sure this will help me.

Thanks again,
Stephen.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:14:35 -0700 (PDT), Andy Dingley
wrote:

There are two sorts of diverter: manual flap valves, and automatic
spill weirs. Don't get a manual, you'll never bother to switch it.

I was thinking of the weir type. I have seen manual diverters but I
hadn't thought of them for rain water, I thought they were more about
choosing whether to recycle or reject bath water.

Rain in a drainpipe mostly runs down the inner surface of the pipe
(capillary effects), rather than cascading through the middle. The
simplest diverter (which Wickes sell for less than the effort of
making it) is a smaller pipe placed inside a piece of downspout,
constructed to make a circular dam inside this surface. A side outlet
takes water away from this dam and into the butt. If the butt is full,
water in the pipe backs up and the weir of the dam overflows down the
middle to the drainpipe's normal outlet. Similarly if the rain is
torrential and too much for the narrow butt pipe.

That last sentence "if the rain is torrential and too much for the
narrow pipe" is what the advertisers used to sell their (still
unknown) diverter with the 32mm waste pipe. Does this mean there is an
advantage to having a larger pipe to the water butt?

Is the pipe to the butt connected below the weir or aligned with it? I
have a diverter for square pipe and would like to buy one that fits
round pipe (I know I could get adaptors but there's no need to make it
look more ugly than it already does!). On this particular diverter,
the tee is aligned with the weir so the pipe could never get more than
half full. This seems to defeat the object of using any diameter of
pipe if half of it never gets used to carry water.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:22:01 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Came across one a few weeks ago where the downpipe above the weir diverter
was blocked solid with a plug of leaves a good 6" long.

Never had leaves in ours - touch wood - but often algae, moss, etc.
Man on ladder scoops it out for us once a year (not brave enough to go
that high myself)

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:48:53 +0100, Stephen wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:03:34 -0500, Jules
wrote:

I'm taking the other option, and running *all* the drain into the water
barrel, then just having an equal-diameter overflow into the drain below.

What size pipes are you using?

It's all (without going out to measure exactly - it's raining! 3x2"
rectangular pipe here for downspouts.

For the spill-over to the drain I'll use 2" dia round plastic pipe (the
internal diameter of which gives slightly more area than the rectangular
3x2") - purely as the fittings are readily available in DIY places (as
plumbing / vent supplies) so I can cut a hole in the water butt and make a
water-tight* join.

* of course the curvature of the barrel makes this more difficult, so I
anticipate application of some goop or other to assist! :-) I suspect
aquarium sealant might be best, as with the barrel full the bottom portion
of the overflow seal will be submerged (and I don't think any of the
conventional DIY sealants are intended for continuous submersion).

The rectangular pipe will just sit slightly into the water butt without
being physically joined to it (although I'll make a regtangular slot in
the cover); it'll be secured to the wall just above.

I think I'll put some mesh right at the top of the downspout in the gutter
just to keep large items (leaves are the main worry) out of things -
I've got scads of glavanised stuff sitting around which should do the
job.

My problem is how to connect large
pipes to a butt. I have seen tank connectors for 15, 20, and 22 mm pipe
but nothing bigger. How will you connect 40 or 68 mm pipe to and from
the butt?

Interesting that there's no 2" equivalent (which is what, 50.8mm?)...

cheers

Jules

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:26:00 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

One inherent problem however is that this type of diverter is a constriction
in the downpipe which means that stuff, like typically a blob of moss, can
be small enough to enter the top of the pipe but big enough to not get past
the fitting.

This is where a larger pipe is better as it is less likely to become
blocked?

I guess the ribbed, flexible pipes are most prone to becoming blocked
because they are not smooth?

I collect a good few cms each year which need to be cleaned out

How do you do that? Do you have to climb into the butt with a trowel?

concrete tiles which spall, so much of it is fine sandy sediment

Ah, so that's where it comes from!

The butt described above is fed from a diverter which I'd love to be able to
buy but which seems no longer to be sold. It is a Y-shaped fitting, sort of
a straight downpipe with another pipe sticking out at about 45 degrees and
pointing downwards IYSWIM. It fits into the side of the butt near the top.
Inside the fitting there is a fixed flat plate in the center line of the 45
degree pipe such that water coming down the pipe is forced out of the exit
pipe and into the butt, when the butt is full water spills under the plate
and down the downpipe into the ground. Obviously it collects every last
drop of water.
Anyone know if they are available anywhere? (The backup plan is to make one
from fittings when I get time).

The picture is not brilliant but is it something like this? It doesn't
have the branch at 45 degrees (or should that be 135 degrees?) but it
does have a 45 degree plate inside.

http://www.combinedharvesters.co.uk/...ory=10#details

Expensive though.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:37:43 -0500, Jules
wrote:

For the spill-over to the drain I'll use 2" dia round plastic pipe (the
internal diameter of which gives slightly more area than the rectangular
3x2") - purely as the fittings are readily available in DIY places (as
plumbing / vent supplies) so I can cut a hole in the water butt and make a
water-tight* join.

How do you avoid overflowing into a drain? That way, you could avoid
paying the water company for rainwater collection. Without digging a
big hole and making a soak away, could you connect the overflow to a
pipe in or on the soil with holes along the length, so that the water
is "poured" over the whole garden, or wouldn't it drain fast enough?

* of course the curvature of the barrel makes this more difficult, so I
anticipate application of some goop or other to assist! :-) I suspect
aquarium sealant might be best, as with the barrel full the bottom portion
of the overflow seal will be submerged (and I don't think any of the
conventional DIY sealants are intended for continuous submersion).

I think aquarium sealant sounds perfect. OTOH if the butt is thin
plastic, wouldn't it deform a little when you tighten the tank
connector, reducing the gap you need to fill?

The rectangular pipe will just sit slightly into the water butt without
being physically joined to it (although I'll make a regtangular slot in
the cover); it'll be secured to the wall just above.

Direct fill seems to have gone out of favour, perhaps that's because
the marketing departments want to sell us diverters? I suppose the
disadvantages are all rubbish ends up in the butt and it can overflow,
but in your case you have got those covered.

Interesting that there's no 2" equivalent (which is what, 50.8mm?)...

I think there is 50mm pipe. I have only ever used 32 and 40 at home
and IIRC the drain pipes are 68 but there is 50mm waste used for some
shower rooms, I think.

I received a new BES catalogue yesterday and sure enough they sell
tank connectors for 32 and 40mm pipe. I could only find the brass
equivalents for 15 and 22mm pipe when I looked on their web site. I
guess I didn't look hard enough, though it's often been said their web
site isn't as good as the paper catalogue.

"Jules" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:48:53 +0100, Stephen wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:03:34 -0500, Jules
wrote:

snip
I can cut a hole in the water butt and make a
water-tight* join.

* of course the curvature of the barrel makes this more difficult, so I
anticipate application of some goop or other to assist! :-) I suspect
aquarium sealant might be best, as with the barrel full the bottom portion
of the overflow seal will be submerged (and I don't think any of the
conventional DIY sealants are intended for continuous submersion).
snip

If they are the standard water butts available in most garden centres the
sides are quite flexible. I did similar to what you describe but used two
butts to increase the water storage. I connected them together about 12
inches from the top with plastic pipe (about inch and a quarter I believe)
and connectors bought from the hardware shop across the road. The sides
are sufficiently flexible that, when the water gets to that depth and runs
into the second butt, there is no leakage from the connections. The
diverter I used was off the shelf from Homebase and uses a similar sized
flexible connection into the side of the first butt near the top. The
setup runs very well.
--
Keith W
Sunbury on Thames
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living)

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:26:00 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

One inherent problem however is that this type of diverter is a
constriction
in the downpipe which means that stuff, like typically a blob of moss, can
be small enough to enter the top of the pipe but big enough to not get
past
the fitting.

This is where a larger pipe is better as it is less likely to become
blocked?

I guess the ribbed, flexible pipes are most prone to becoming blocked
because they are not smooth?


Not really what I meant, you are thinking of the pipe from the diverter to
the butt however the problem is typically within the diverter where the
"straight through" path is constricted by the bit that collects the water
for the butt so you can end up with the straight through path blocked in
which case the water can't go into the butt and can't go to the soakaway.
Look into a diverter from the top and you'll see what I mean it goes down
from 68mm to, I guess, 45mm.

I collect a good few cms each year which need to be cleaned out

How do you do that? Do you have to climb into the butt with a trowel?


Well I don't do it every year, the draw-off from that butt is about a third
of the way up so I let it build up until either I can be bothered to deal
with it or it's been a long hot summer and we are getting the last dregs out
with a bucket.

concrete tiles which spall, so much of it is fine sandy sediment

Ah, so that's where it comes from!

The butt described above is fed from a diverter which I'd love to be able
to
buy but which seems no longer to be sold. It is a Y-shaped fitting, sort
of
a straight downpipe with another pipe sticking out at about 45 degrees and
pointing downwards IYSWIM. It fits into the side of the butt near the
top.
Inside the fitting there is a fixed flat plate in the center line of the
45
degree pipe such that water coming down the pipe is forced out of the exit
pipe and into the butt, when the butt is full water spills under the plate
and down the downpipe into the ground. Obviously it collects every last
drop of water.
Anyone know if they are available anywhere? (The backup plan is to make
one
from fittings when I get time).

The picture is not brilliant but is it something like this? It doesn't
have the branch at 45 degrees (or should that be 135 degrees?) but it
does have a 45 degree plate inside.

http://www.combinedharvesters.co.uk/...ory=10#details

Expensive though.

A little like that internally but where that has a filter mine has a solid
plate. From the outside mine looks just like a 45 degree angled T fitted
upside down (but with the inside/outside mating flanges inverted as you'd
expect so that water stays inside the pipe), much more like an ordinary
fitting. It only cost about the same as an ordinary fitting too but it was
bought many years ago.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:59:43 +0100, Keith W wrote:
If they are the standard water butts available in most garden centres the
sides are quite flexible.

Actually a bit more heavy-duty - it was once a plastic 55gal fuel drum. It
had a good rinse out, then a good 8 months or so to acclimatize a bit,
then I cut the top off the other day (and got rid of the big 'diesel'
lettering on the side so it's now all plain white :-)

It does have some give in it, but the sides are around 1/4" thick
(genuine water butts are probably 1/8th or even 1/16th)

I did similar to what you describe but used two
butts to increase the water storage.

I actually need another one, too, but I'll put that up where our barn is
and collect water from there (and I'm tempted to see if I can hook up a
washing machine pump so I can pump water via underground pipe to where our
veggie garden is - there's no suitable way of collecting water right
where that patch is at)

The sides are sufficiently flexible that, when the water gets to that
depth and runs into the second butt, there is no leakage from the
connections.

I suppose the other thing is that it doesn't need to be perfect - so long
as 99% of the water's going where it should...

cheers

Jules

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:47:16 +0100, Stephen wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:37:43 -0500, Jules
wrote:

For the spill-over to the drain I'll use 2" dia round plastic pipe (the
internal diameter of which gives slightly more area than the rectangular
3x2") - purely as the fittings are readily available in DIY places (as
plumbing / vent supplies) so I can cut a hole in the water butt and make a
water-tight* join.

How do you avoid overflowing into a drain? That way, you could avoid
paying the water company for rainwater collection.

No water company here anyway - we've got a private well for supply, so
the only charge is for the power to run the well pump.

The drain's something I need to add, too, as currently rainwater just
spills across the land around the house and naturally soaks away, but I
want to add something a bit more controlled (I've mentioned it elsewhere
on here before; there's scope for having a 4" pipe or so running from the
gutter outflow, under the driveway, and spilling out into the woodland
beyond)

Without digging a
big hole and making a soak away, could you connect the overflow to a
pipe in or on the soil with holes along the length, so that the water is
"poured" over the whole garden, or wouldn't it drain fast enough?

Actually I noticed the other day that the local DIY shed sells 4" pipe
which is peppered with 1/2" holes all over it, presumably for this kind of
purpose. Might be something to think about...

I think aquarium sealant sounds perfect. OTOH if the butt is thin
plastic, wouldn't it deform a little when you tighten the tank
connector, reducing the gap you need to fill?

See other post; it's a bit more heavy-duty than a standard butt. It does
deform a bit, though (but then probably enough that I'd have to make a
new slightly-non-round lid given that the overflow - and deformation -
would be right at the top)

Direct fill seems to have gone out of favour, perhaps that's because the
marketing departments want to sell us diverters? I suppose the
disadvantages are all rubbish ends up in the butt and it can overflow,
but in your case you have got those covered.

Could me. Maybe direct-fill's a bit noisier too, and that was putting
people off (which might be something I end up having to worry about - the
barrel's right outside a ground-floor bedroom)

Interesting that there's no 2" equivalent (which is what, 50.8mm?)...

I think there is 50mm pipe. I have only ever used 32 and 40 at home and
IIRC the drain pipes are 68 but there is 50mm waste used for some shower
rooms, I think.

OK. Here it's 2" everywhere pretty much - white for venting / grey water,
and black for the more icky stuff. That means there's a good range of
fittings around though, and they cost peanuts.

cheers

Jules

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:33:07 +0000, Huge wrote:
But don't you need to climb up there to clear the strainer once a
year? I have seen some expensive (£40ish) diverters with integral
filters. I guess they save perching on ladders.

Ah, I should have mentioned that this particular gutter is at ground
floor level, so the only "perching" required is on a small stepladder.

Yes, I should mention that mine's that way, too...

On Aug 27, 5:22*pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:

SNIP

the narrow pipes got blocked easily

Keep the leaves out.

Came across one a few weeks ago where the downpipe above the weir diverter
was blocked solid with a plug of leaves a good 6" long.

Original call was 'gutter overflowing' but when I looked it was as clear as
a bell. *Lady mentioned in passing that despite the recent rain the water
butt was empty, which gave me the clue on where to look.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Yes, one of ours at home was like this the other week. What I hadn't
realised was that there was a good few feet of water above the
leaves / moss blockage; so the instant I cleared the blockage the
downpipe emptied onto the top of the water butt then rebounded all
over yours truly. Kept SWMBO amused for a while :-/

airsmoothed wrote:
On Aug 27, 5:22 pm, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 27 Aug, 10:28, Stephen wrote:

SNIP

the narrow pipes got blocked easily

Keep the leaves out.

Came across one a few weeks ago where the downpipe above the weir
diverter was blocked solid with a plug of leaves a good 6" long.

Original call was 'gutter overflowing' but when I looked it was as
clear as a bell. Lady mentioned in passing that despite the recent
rain the water butt was empty, which gave me the clue on where to
look.

--
Dave - The Medway Handymanwww.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Yes, one of ours at home was like this the other week. What I hadn't
realised was that there was a good few feet of water above the
leaves / moss blockage; so the instant I cleared the blockage the
downpipe emptied onto the top of the water butt then rebounded all
over yours truly. Kept SWMBO amused for a while :-/

Funny enough, exactly the same thing happened to me :-) Amused the customer
no end :-(


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same? Many diverters seem
to use a narrow flexible pipe as feed/overflow to/from the water butt.
I remember once seeing an advert for a diverter that used much bigger
pipes, claiming that the narrow pipes got blocked easily or would
become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour. Is this true or was
it marketing spin?

I think that model used standard 32mm waste. Would it be easy to
connect that to a water butt? Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank
connector?

I can't remember the make of that diverter and have not found any from
google. Does anyone know the make and whether it still exits?
snip

Many years ago I bought a rainwater diverter which was basically a piece of
grey pipe with a 'T' connector and a raised outlet in the middle (as
described elsewhere).

I didn't bother with connectors - just cut a hole in the side of the water
butt (there was a recess for an incoming pipe) which was a snug fit for the
pipe and pushed it in.

There is no pressure to contain (well, possibly 5mm head of water) so a
fancy fitting isn't really required.

Never seeen one since, though, and have used RainSava (or similar) which
require unblocking occasionally but do allow more flexible positioning of
the water butt.

HTH

Dave R

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:26:29 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:


"Stephen" wrote in message
.. .
Hello,

I am going to connect my drain pipes to a water butt. What is the best
diverter to use or are they more or less the same? Many diverters seem
to use a narrow flexible pipe as feed/overflow to/from the water butt.
I remember once seeing an advert for a diverter that used much bigger
pipes, claiming that the narrow pipes got blocked easily or would
become overwhelmed if there was a heavy downpour. Is this true or was
it marketing spin?

I think that model used standard 32mm waste. Would it be easy to
connect that to a water butt? Is there such a thing as a 32mm tank
connector?

I can't remember the make of that diverter and have not found any from
google. Does anyone know the make and whether it still exits?
snip

Many years ago I bought a rainwater diverter which was basically a piece of
grey pipe with a 'T' connector and a raised outlet in the middle (as
described elsewhere).

I didn't bother with connectors - just cut a hole in the side of the water
butt (there was a recess for an incoming pipe) which was a snug fit for the
pipe and pushed it in.

There is no pressure to contain (well, possibly 5mm head of water) so a
fancy fitting isn't really required.

Never seeen one since, though, and have used RainSava (or similar) which
require unblocking occasionally but do allow more flexible positioning of
the water butt.

HTH

Dave R


Maybe I have missed something on this thread - but can anyone explain
how these rainwater diverters actually work?

They appear to be a simple T juction with no moving parts, or valves.
So why should rainwater, dribbling down all sides of the downpipe,
elect to enter the water-butt and not continue to fall under gravity?

And what stops the butt overflowing when it is full?

DJ

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:59:31 +0100, David J wrote:
They appear to be a simple T juction with no moving parts, or valves.
So why should rainwater, dribbling down all sides of the downpipe,
elect to enter the water-butt and not continue to fall under gravity?

I think they're more like the following:

from
gutter

| |
--+ |
barrel | |
--+ | | | 'cup'
+--| |--+
| |
| |

to drain

.... there's a narrower small piece of vertical pipe in the middle. The
rain mostly runs down the inside edges of the downspout and collects in
the 'cup' section, where it's free to exit via the side pipe to the rain
barrel.

So long as the top of the barrel is at the same level as the 'cup'
then once the barrel's full, the 'cup' will also fill up, and
excess water then spills through the narrow central pipe and from there to
the drain.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:14:36 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:59:31 +0100, David J wrote:
They appear to be a simple T juction with no moving parts, or valves.
So why should rainwater, dribbling down all sides of the downpipe,
elect to enter the water-butt and not continue to fall under gravity?

I think they're more like the following:

from
gutter

| |
--+ |
barrel | |
--+ | | | 'cup'
+--| |--+
| |
| |

to drain

... there's a narrower small piece of vertical pipe in the middle. The
rain mostly runs down the inside edges of the downspout and collects in
the 'cup' section, where it's free to exit via the side pipe to the rain
barrel.

So long as the top of the barrel is at the same level as the 'cup'
then once the barrel's full, the 'cup' will also fill up, and
excess water then spills through the narrow central pipe and from there to
the drain.

cheers

Jules

OK - many thanks.

With your explanation above it does look feasible. It also explains
why the pipe to the butt has to be fitted horizontally.

DJ

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:14:36 -0500, Jules
wrote:

I think they're more like the following:

from
gutter

| |
--+ |
barrel | |
--+ | | | 'cup'
+--| |--+
| |
| |

to drain

... there's a narrower small piece of vertical pipe in the middle. The
rain mostly runs down the inside edges of the downspout and collects in
the 'cup' section, where it's free to exit via the side pipe to the rain
barrel.

So long as the top of the barrel is at the same level as the 'cup'
then once the barrel's full, the 'cup' will also fill up, and
excess water then spills through the narrow central pipe and from there to
the drain.


How tall is the "cup" section in most diverters? I would have expected
the top of the narrow piece of pipe to be level with the top of the
pipe to the barrel, which is roughly what your sketch shows. This
would allow the whole bore of the pipe to the barrel to be used to
carry water.

But the diverter I have seen in the shop today has the cup only half
the height of the barrel outlet, which means the pipe can only ever be
half full. Surely this is a wasted opportunity as the pipe can only
ever carry water at half its capacity?

"Stephen" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:14:36 -0500, Jules
wrote:

I think they're more like the following:

from
gutter

| |
--+ |
barrel | |
--+ | | | 'cup'
+--| |--+
| |
| |

to drain

... there's a narrower small piece of vertical pipe in the middle. The
rain mostly runs down the inside edges of the downspout and collects in
the 'cup' section, where it's free to exit via the side pipe to the rain
barrel.

So long as the top of the barrel is at the same level as the 'cup'
then once the barrel's full, the 'cup' will also fill up, and
excess water then spills through the narrow central pipe and from there to
the drain.


How tall is the "cup" section in most diverters? I would have expected
the top of the narrow piece of pipe to be level with the top of the
pipe to the barrel, which is roughly what your sketch shows. This
would allow the whole bore of the pipe to the barrel to be used to
carry water.

But the diverter I have seen in the shop today has the cup only half
the height of the barrel outlet, which means the pipe can only ever be
half full. Surely this is a wasted opportunity as the pipe can only
ever carry water at half its capacity?

That's almost certainly true but remember that this type of diverter isn't
very good at collecting 100% of the rainfall anyway and the percentage
collected drops as the rainfall rate increases because it's only collecting
from the wall of the downpipe so I don't think it's ever going to be limited
by the bore of the connecting pipe.

David J wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:14:36 -0500, Jules
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:59:31 +0100, David J wrote:
They appear to be a simple T juction with no moving parts, or valves.
So why should rainwater, dribbling down all sides of the downpipe,
elect to enter the water-butt and not continue to fall under gravity?
I think they're more like the following:

from
gutter

| |
--+ |
barrel | |
--+ | | | 'cup'
+--| |--+
| |
| |

to drain

... there's a narrower small piece of vertical pipe in the middle. The
rain mostly runs down the inside edges of the downspout and collects in
the 'cup' section, where it's free to exit via the side pipe to the rain
barrel.

So long as the top of the barrel is at the same level as the 'cup'
then once the barrel's full, the 'cup' will also fill up, and
excess water then spills through the narrow central pipe and from there to
the drain.

cheers

Jules

OK - many thanks.

With your explanation above it does look feasible. It also explains
why the pipe to the butt has to be fitted horizontally.

DJ

Be aware their resistance to dead leaves is precisely zero

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:55:10 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

That's almost certainly true but remember that this type of diverter isn't
very good at collecting 100% of the rainfall anyway and the percentage
collected drops as the rainfall rate increases because it's only collecting
from the wall of the downpipe

Is there a better type that collects nearer to 100% of the rainfall?

I thought all rain went down the sides of the pipe. I didn't think any
went free fall down the middle?

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:55:10 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

That's almost certainly true but remember that this type of diverter isn't
very good at collecting 100% of the rainfall anyway and the percentage
collected drops as the rainfall rate increases because it's only
collecting
from the wall of the downpipe

Is there a better type that collects nearer to 100% of the rainfall?

My down pipe goes into the water butt and the overflow from the butt into
the drain.

"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:55:10 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

That's almost certainly true but remember that this type of diverter isn't
very good at collecting 100% of the rainfall anyway and the percentage
collected drops as the rainfall rate increases because it's only
collecting
from the wall of the downpipe

Is there a better type that collects nearer to 100% of the rainfall?


As I said in an earlier post I have one which collects all of the rainfall
but it's old and I can't find them on sale anymore. Essentially it forces
all of the rainfall into the butt and allows the butt to overflow back into
the downpipe at about 1/2 bore (ie. a semicircle of 68mm pipe). All in one
neat fitting.

I thought all rain went down the sides of the pipe. I didn't think any
went free fall down the middle?

During heavy rain there are two effects. One is that water will be
cascading down the pipe away from the ways anyway but the other is that it's
falling from, say, 4m so has considerable velocity. Don't expect all of it
to be neatly caught by the internal lip and not bounce. Try fitting a short
length of pipe to the top of a normal diverter and pouring a jug of water
into it and see how much comes out of the side hole and how much out of the
outgoing downpipe.

dennis@home wrote:
My down pipe goes into the water butt and the overflow from the butt into
the drain.

That sounds like a good idea, especially if you can arrange for the
water to feed in at the bottom of the butt so that it keeps the content
fresh rather than stagnant.

Has anyone DIYed a first flush system?

"Calvin Sambrook" wrote in message
...
"Stephen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:55:10 +0100, "Calvin Sambrook"
wrote:

That's almost certainly true but remember that this type of diverter
isn't
very good at collecting 100% of the rainfall anyway and the percentage
collected drops as the rainfall rate increases because it's only
collecting
from the wall of the downpipe

Is there a better type that collects nearer to 100% of the rainfall?


As I said in an earlier post I have one which collects all of the rainfall
but it's old and I can't find them on sale anymore. Essentially it forces
all of the rainfall into the butt and allows the butt to overflow back
into the downpipe at about 1/2 bore (ie. a semicircle of 68mm pipe). All
in one neat fitting.

I thought all rain went down the sides of the pipe. I didn't think any
went free fall down the middle?

During heavy rain there are two effects. One is that water will be
cascading down the pipe away from the ways anyway but the other is that
it's
^^^^
Obvoiusly that should read "walls"
falling from, say, 4m so has considerable velocity. Don't expect all of
it to be neatly caught by the internal lip and not bounce. Try fitting a
short length of pipe to the top of a normal diverter and pouring a jug of
water into it and see how much comes out of the side hole and how much out
of the outgoing downpipe.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
My down pipe goes into the water butt and the overflow from the butt into
the drain.

That sounds like a good idea, especially if you can arrange for the water
to feed in at the bottom of the butt so that it keeps the content fresh
rather than stagnant.

Yes mine goes to the bottom.
I cut it at 45 deg to allow the water to escape and to cause it to circulate
the water.
You could fit a shoe on the bottom, I didn't have one handy.

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:42:05 +0100, dennis@home wrote:



"Jim" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
My down pipe goes into the water butt and the overflow from the butt into
the drain.

That sounds like a good idea, especially if you can arrange for the water
to feed in at the bottom of the butt so that it keeps the content fresh
rather than stagnant.

Yes mine goes to the bottom.
I cut it at 45 deg to allow the water to escape and to cause it to circulate
the water.

I think that's what I'll do too. I think I'll set the bottom of the
downspout a few inches* off the actual bottom of the barrel, then put a
joint in the downspout just above the top of the barrel (which you also
may have done) just so I can easily remove the barrel for cleaning
every few years.

* I'm not sure if it'll gradually fill with sediment either, even with the
circulation.

cheers

Jules