I'm not sure if this is entirely the right group, but here goes...

We've got this old chapel, and the roof (most of which is overhang) is
barely insulated, certainly nothing near any standard. The only way to
do it is to take the tiles off. It needs doing, and unfortunately as
there's virtually no loft, there aren't any grants (or not that any of
the grants people are telling us).

Also, I thought the VAT level on work primarily for insulation (and
thus carbon reduction) was 5%? But the quotes are at 15%.

Anyway, we had one quote we can blow straight out with a good laugh of
£23,000. However, the only other two that can really do much before
winter are coming in at £16,000 and £18,000 including VAT.

This is WAY more than we were expecting - but the fact that the two
were so close...does that suggest that basically, that's what the
price is?

If you're feeling bored or brave, I've posted the spec that went out
for quotes. Yes, there's a lot to do - they think about a month - but
still .... £16,000?!? (That's assuming we can actually borrow that
much!). We were thinking £10k inc, max. Or were we living in cloud
cuckoo land?

Anyway.....

Starting with rear roof, strip down to top of outshot and save good
small slates for front surface of roof.

Remove top few rows of slates at top of outshot roof to ascertain
insulation levels below. If insulation is inadequate [TBA] then whole
surface to be stripped and new insulation fitted as below. Price to be
submitted for this as a separate item.

Check all structural timbers for rot or worm and treat or replace bad
areas as necessary.

Replace facias and barge boards as necessary. New or existing facias
to be topped off with 25mm deep [or as required – see 6 below]
ventilation strip. This increase in height will facilitate the fitting
of counter battens on the roof surface and a tilting fillet. New
facias and barge boards should be naturally durable timber such as
Western Red Cedar, Douglas Fir or European Larch.

Insulation on main roof:

Above sloping ceilings fit maximum possible thickness of rigid closed
cell foam insulation such as Kingspan, i.e. to depth of rafters. This
must be tightly fitted and any gaps between insulation edges and
rafters filled with foam or mastic to prevent heat loss as a result of
small convection currents. Insulation to extend over tops of walls.

On horizontal ceilings insulation will be installed to a depth of
250mm when roof is watertight. Insulation to be mineral fibre or
equivalent 'non-itch' type or Warmcell. Latter would have to be
installed by specialist contractor. Please provide prices for all
options. Insulation should not extend under tanks or pipe runs. These
should be insulated above and on the sides with appropriate materials.

All roof space and sloping ceiling electrics to be checked by
qualified electrician and remedial work carried out before insulation
is installed. New cable runs for e.g. new light positions, to be
discussed with clients and installed. Electrician's written statement
to be provided when work is compete.
Breathable membrane to be fitted over entire roof surface and held
with vertical treated battens.

Fit horizontal treated battens at spacing required for slate type as
described below. Tilting fillet to be provided for first course.
Dormers??

Slating. Good small slates as existing to be used for front elevation.
Utilise those salvaged from rear and purchase additional s/hand as
required. Fix with copper nails. Rear roof can have larger slates to
match those on outshot. Purchase new or s/hand as necessary. .
Vented ridge. Type TBA.

Soffits – FSC ply or as agreed.

Paint all facias and soffits. Paint type and colour TBA.

Rainwater goods. If minimal replacement required then use existing
type. If extensive replacement required then type is TBA.

Lead valleys and flashings. Use Code 4. Valley lengths not to exceed
1200mm. Chimney cover flashings to be held in place with lead rolls
and suitably pointed.

Check and renew chimney pointing, haunching and cowls as necessary.

"lardconcepts" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure if this is entirely the right group, but here goes...

We've got this old chapel, and the roof (most of which is overhang) is
barely insulated, certainly nothing near any standard. The only way to
do it is to take the tiles off.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can this be "the only way". There must be an accessible "inside" roof
that you can access.

Can you not put up insulated plasterboard?

Perhaps the property is listed?

tim

We've got this old chapel, and the roof (most of which is overhang) is
barely insulated, certainly nothing near any standard. The only way to
do it is to take the tiles off. It needs doing, and unfortunately as
there's virtually no loft, there aren't any grants (or not that any of
the grants people are telling us).

In my *very* limited experience the price will depend heavily on:

a. the size of the chapel - should we be thinking St George's Windsor
or .....?
b. where you are - central London or .....?
c. the roof covering - you mention tiles, then slates: real slates =
cost; small slates = more work.

You could speak to one of the trade bodies if you think you are being
had. But the figures you quote did not strike me as outrageous -
thought I am going by, as indicated, precious little experience and that
all of "ordinary" little houses.
--
R

On Aug 24, 1:22*pm, "tim....." wrote:

How can this be "the only way". *There must be an accessible "inside" roof
that you can access.

Can you not put up insulated plasterboard?

Well, here's the things - rooms not so big anyway. And this "internal
insulation" stuff would have to be 8" thick to get the required 0.3 u
value. It's very heavy, but more than that, the roof is 7' high at
highest, I'm 6'4", with 8" board that's going to be a lot of head-
tilting

Perhaps the property is listed?

Nah, but apparently the inspector will have to come several times as
it'll involved x% of the roof.

On Aug 24, 3:35 pm, "neverwas" wrote:

a. the size of the chapel - should we be thinking St George's Windsor

No, just yer standard little chapel with an extension to the side and
back, but not "big".

b. where you are - central London or .....?

mid-Wales

c. the roof covering - you mention tiles, then slates: real slates =
cost; small slates = more work.

Real slates

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
lardconcepts wrote:

I'm not sure if this is entirely the right group, but here goes...

We've got this old chapel

I looked into having all the slates taken off and replaced on a small
Cumbrian cottage roof a few years ago. The quote was £15,000 which
included an allowance for breakage and replacement.

As I was going to do the structural repair myself it sounded expensive,
so I didn't buy the place. Glad I didn't - horrible neighbours

On the other hand a chap I know just came to replace five broken thick
Honister green slates today and he only changed me £30, which included
the new slates and his time.

R.

"lardconcepts" wrote in message
...
....
Also, I thought the VAT level on work primarily for insulation (and
thus carbon reduction) was 5%? But the quotes are at 15%.

The reduced rate of VAT only applies to residental buildings and buildings
used for non-business charitable purposes.

Anyway, we had one quote we can blow straight out with a good laugh of
£23,000. However, the only other two that can really do much before
winter are coming in at £16,000 and £18,000 including VAT.

It depends entirely upon the size of the chapel, but to me that sounds
reasonable for a building not a lot bigger than a detached house, given the
specfication.

Colin Bignell

On Aug 24, 6:38*pm, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname here.me.uk
wrote:

The reduced rate of VAT only applies to residental buildings and buildings...

Thanks! That spurred me on to look further - seems pretty clear to
me!

HMRC Reference:Notice 708/6 (August 2006)
Energy-saving materials
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ument#P55_2764
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_000514
(PDF)

The reduced rate applies to installations of:
insulation (see paragraph 2.8);

2.8
The reduced rate applies to installations of insulation for:
roofs or lofts

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/b...truction.htm#3
Installing energy-saving materials
You may be able to charge VAT at the reduced rate of 5 per cent when
you supply and install certain energy-saving materials.
The reduced rate only applies to specified energy-saving materials.
And it only applies when you install them in certain types of
building.
Situations when the reduced rate would - and wouldn't - apply
You can charge the reduced rate of VAT on work you do to install
qualifying energy-saving materials, and on the price of the materials
themselves. But if you only supply the materials then you must always
charge the standard rate of VAT on them.
If you have to do any minor work as part of the installation then you
can charge the reduced rate on that too. This could include, for
example, cutting down doors and windows or painting and plastering the
area you've worked on to make good. But if installing the energy-
saving materials is incidental to another job - such as building an
extension or replacing a roof - then you can't charge the reduced rate
on any of the work. If the standard rate of VAT applies to the main
job then you'll have to charge it on the whole of the work.
Materials you can charge the reduced rate on
You can charge the reduced rate of VAT when you install the following
energy-saving materials in a qualifying building:
insulation
Premises where you can charge the reduced rate on an installation
You can only charge the reduced rate of VAT on qualifying energy
saving materials when you install them in one of the following:
residential accommodation

HMRC Reference:Notice 708 (February 2008) Building materials
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...0513#P123_8706
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...HMCE_CL_000513
(PDF)

2.2
Retailers and builders’ merchants charge VAT at the standard rate on
most items they sell.
Builders, however, charge VAT on ‘building materials’ that they supply
and incorporate in a building (or its site) at the same rate as for
their work. So, if their work is zero-rated or reduced-rated, then so
are the ‘building materials’. However, some items are not ‘building
materials’ and remain standard-rated.