Hi

I have a wall in my bathroom, on which I would like to place an illuminated
mirror. The nearest source of water is a bog pan on the adjacent 90 degree
wall, probably around 1.5m away, as the crow flies. The basin is to the left
of that, so farther away, and the bath even further, being against the
opposite wall. I have seen a mirror I like, which says that it's approved
for use in zone 3. Does it sound like my proposed location *is* zone 3. I
looked at the diagram at

http://www.allupandon.co.uk/lighting.../bathroomzones

and that appears to show a lit mirror above a basin, half in zone 2 and half
in zone 3. The notes with this diagram don't seem to make an awful lot of
sense. Is there a simple formula for what is considered safe in which
locations ?

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:
Hi

I have a wall in my bathroom, on which I would like to place an illuminated
mirror. The nearest source of water is a bog pan on the adjacent 90 degree
wall, probably around 1.5m away, as the crow flies. The basin is to the left
of that, so farther away, and the bath even further, being against the
opposite wall. I have seen a mirror I like, which says that it's approved
for use in zone 3. Does it sound like my proposed location *is* zone 3. I

Your proposed location is "outside the zones". (note Zone 3 does not
exist any more - it vanished in the 17th edition of BS7671)

So your mirror is fine in that location.


looked at the diagram at

http://www.allupandon.co.uk/lighting.../bathroomzones

and that appears to show a lit mirror above a basin, half in zone 2 and half
in zone 3. The notes with this diagram don't seem to make an awful lot of
sense. Is there a simple formula for what is considered safe in which
locations ?

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news
Arfa Daily wrote:
Hi

I have a wall in my bathroom, on which I would like to place an
illuminated mirror. The nearest source of water is a bog pan on the
adjacent 90 degree wall, probably around 1.5m away, as the crow flies.
The basin is to the left of that, so farther away, and the bath even
further, being against the opposite wall. I have seen a mirror I like,
which says that it's approved for use in zone 3. Does it sound like my
proposed location *is* zone 3. I

Your proposed location is "outside the zones". (note Zone 3 does not exist
any more - it vanished in the 17th edition of BS7671)

So your mirror is fine in that location.


looked at the diagram at

http://www.allupandon.co.uk/lighting.../bathroomzones

and that appears to show a lit mirror above a basin, half in zone 2 and
half in zone 3. The notes with this diagram don't seem to make an awful
lot of sense. Is there a simple formula for what is considered safe in
which locations ?

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones




--
Cheers,

John.


Thanks for that John. I knew one of you lads would be able to put me
straight in short order ... !

Arfa

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:41:01 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones

Not about the mirror - but there seems to be no mention of lighting on that
page. We just have a bare 100w bulb in a bayonet socket as fitted originally.
You can stand in/on the bath to change the bulb.
Any new rules broken here?


--
Geo

Geo wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:41:01 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones

Not about the mirror - but there seems to be no mention of lighting on that

Good point - I will add a section on lighting.

page. We just have a bare 100w bulb in a bayonet socket as fitted originally.
You can stand in/on the bath to change the bulb.

It sounds as if you lamp is in Zone 1 or 2 then (depending on the height
of the ceiling). So the light fitting must be IPX4 or better (a bayonet
fitting is not). If the fitting is in zone 1, then it ought to be SELV
as well.

Any new rules broken here?

Not new ones, just some fairly old ones ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:45:46 GMT someone who may be Geo
wrote this:-

Not about the mirror - but there seems to be no mention of lighting on that
page. We just have a bare 100w bulb in a bayonet socket as fitted originally.
You can stand in/on the bath to change the bulb.
Any new rules broken here?

To add to what has been said, assuming that lampholder is within
2.5m of the bath then provided it is fitted with a so-called Home
Office skirt then no old rules were broken. It could also have been
totally enclosed.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:09:11 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Geo wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:41:01 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones

Not about the mirror - but there seems to be no mention of lighting on that

Good point - I will add a section on lighting.

page. We just have a bare 100w bulb in a bayonet socket as fitted originally.
You can stand in/on the bath to change the bulb.

It sounds as if you lamp is in Zone 1 or 2 then (depending on the height
of the ceiling). So the light fitting must be IPX4 or better (a bayonet
fitting is not). If the fitting is in zone 1, then it ought to be SELV
as well.

Any new rules broken here?

Not new ones, just some fairly old ones ;-)

apologies to OP for hijack

From one site I get:-
"Zone 1: the area around the bathtub or shower basin up to a height of 2.25m
above the floor ..."

and from another:-
"Zone 1: The area directly above zone 0 limited vertically to 2.25m above the
bottom of the bath or shower. "

and a third says zone two exists above zone 1:-

"Zone 1 is the area above Zone 0, up to a height of 2.25 m above the floor. Zone
2 is the area above Zone 1 up to a height of 3 m"

Getting confused now about the location (21cm horizontally from the bath edge)
and 2380mm from the floor (not bottom of bath).


--
Geo

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:57:41 +0100, David Hansen
wrote:

To add to what has been said, assuming that lampholder is within
2.5m of the bath then provided it is fitted with a so-called Home
Office skirt then no old rules were broken. It could also have been
totally enclosed.

Thanks - yes it does have the HO skirt.

--
Geo

Geo wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:09:11 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Geo wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:41:01 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Yup, as described he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones
Not about the mirror - but there seems to be no mention of lighting on that
Good point - I will add a section on lighting.

page. We just have a bare 100w bulb in a bayonet socket as fitted originally.
You can stand in/on the bath to change the bulb.
It sounds as if you lamp is in Zone 1 or 2 then (depending on the height
of the ceiling). So the light fitting must be IPX4 or better (a bayonet
fitting is not). If the fitting is in zone 1, then it ought to be SELV
as well.

Any new rules broken here?
Not new ones, just some fairly old ones ;-)

apologies to OP for hijack

From one site I get:-
"Zone 1: the area around the bathtub or shower basin up to a height of 2.25m
above the floor ..."

and from another:-
"Zone 1: The area directly above zone 0 limited vertically to 2.25m above the
bottom of the bath or shower. "

and a third says zone two exists above zone 1:-

"Zone 1 is the area above Zone 0, up to a height of 2.25 m above the floor. Zone
2 is the area above Zone 1 up to a height of 3 m"

Getting confused now about the location (21cm horizontally from the bath edge)
and 2380mm from the floor (not bottom of bath).

From the horses mouth: BS7671 16th edition: (not got the 17th in an
easy to cut'n'paste form)


"Zone 0 is the interior of the bath tub or shower basin. In a location
containing a shower without a basin, zone 0 is limited by the floor and
by the plane 0.05 m above the floor. In this case:

(i) where the shower head is demountable and able to be moved around in
use, zone 0 is limited by the vertical plane(s) at a radius of 1.2 m
horizontally from the water outlet at the wall, or
(ii) where the shower head is not demountable, zone 0 is limited by the
vertical plane(s) at a radius of 0.60 m from the shower head.

Zone 1 is limited by:
(i) the upper plane of zone 0 and the horizontal plane 2.25 m above the
floor, and
(ii) (a) by the vertical plane(s) circumscribing the bath tub or shower
basin and includes the space below the
bath tub or shower basin where that space is accessible without the use
of a tool, or
(b) for a shower without a basin and with a demountable shower head able
to be moved around in use, the
vertical plane(s) at a radius of 1.2 m from the water outlet at the wall, or
(c) for a shower without a basin and with a shower head which is not
demountable, the vertical plane(s) at a
radius 0.60 m from the shower head.

Zone 2 is limited by:
(i) the vertical plane(s) external to zone 1 and parallel vertical
plane(s) 0.60 m external to zone 1, and
(ii) the floor and the horizontal plane 2.25 m above the floor."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 17 Aug, 18:19, Geo wrote:
From one site I get:-
"Zone 1: the area around the bathtub or shower basin up to a height of 2.25m
above the floor ..."

and from another:-
"Zone 1: * The area directly above zone 0 limited vertically to 2.25m above the
bottom of the bath or shower. "

and a third says zone two exists above zone 1:-

"Zone 1 is the area above Zone 0, up to a height of 2.25 m above the floor. Zone
2 is the area above Zone 1 up to a height of 3 m"

Getting confused now about the location (21cm horizontally from the bath edge)
and 2380mm from the floor (not bottom of bath).


The 17th edition regulations say:

quote

701.32.2 Description of zone 0

Zone 0 is the interior of the bath tub or shower basin (see Figures
701.1 and 701.2).

For showers without a basin, the height of zone 0 is 0.10 m and its
surface extent has the same horizontal extent as zone 1 (see Figure
701.2).

701.32.3 Description of zone 1

Zone 1 is limited by:

i) the finished floor level and the horizontal plane corresponding to
the highest fixed shower head or water outlet or the horizontal plane
lying 2.25 m above the finished floor level, whichever is higher

ii) the vertical surface:

a) circumscribing the bath tub or shower basin (see Figure 701.1)
b) at a distance of 1.20 m from the centre point of the fixed water
outlet on the wall or ceiling for showers without a basin (see Figure
701.1(e) and (f)).

Zone 1 does not include zone 0.

The space under the bath tub or shower basin is considered to be zone
1. However, if the space under the bath tub or shower basin is only
accessible with a tool, it is considered to be outside the zones.

701.32.4 Description of zone 2

Zone 2 is limited by:

(i) the finished floor level and the horizontal plane corresponding to
the highest fixed shower head or water outlet or the horizontal plane
lying 2.25 m above the finished floor level, whichever is higher

(ii) the vertical surface at the boundary of zone 1 and the parallel
vertical surface at a distance of 0.60 m from the zone 1 border (see
Figure 701.1).

For showers without a basin, there is no zone 2 but an increased zone
1 is provided by the horizontal dimension of 1.20 m mentioned in
Regulation 701.32.3(ii)b)(see Figure 701.1(e) and (f).

end of quote

John

apologies to OP for hijack
Geo

No probs old boy. Go right ahead. All interesting stuff, and all potentially
relevant to the complete bathroom refit I'm currently doing.

Arfa

On Aug 17, 1:34*am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
Hi

I have a wall in my bathroom, on which I would like to place an illuminated
mirror. The nearest source of water is a bog pan on the adjacent 90 degree
wall, probably around 1.5m away, as the crow flies. The basin is to the left
of that, so farther away, and the bath even further, being against the
opposite wall. I have seen a mirror I like, which says that it's approved
for use in zone 3. Does it sound like my proposed location *is* zone 3. I
looked at the diagram at

http://www.allupandon.co.uk/lighting.../bathroomzones

and that appears to show a lit mirror above a basin, half in zone 2 and half
in zone 3. The notes with this diagram don't seem to make an awful lot of
sense. Is there a simple formula for what is considered safe in which
locations ?

Arfa

The wiki on this currently seems to say that all lighting in zones
0,1,2 must be selv. Surely not?


NT