I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

TIA

On Aug 12, 9:33*pm, Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like thishttp://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

TIA

cut the cable, install 2 sockets, each cut end goes to one of them,
and add a linking bit of cable. Otherwise you can use a jbox or
crimps. Soldering's also allowed, but with that you should still use a
jbox to enclose it.


NT

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Homer Simpson wrote:

I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but
what is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the
cables - a "traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

TIA

The official party line says that you should only use screwed connections -
such as the junction boxes which you reference - in places which are readily
accessible for maintenance, and that elsewhere (e.g. behind plaster) you
should use crimps or soldered joints.

Wiring under floorboards is somewhat moot. It's probably best to regard it
as 'inaccessible' and use crimps - but I've got a hell of a lot of junction
boxes under mine!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In article ,
Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

Under floorboards is considered accessible so a JB is fine.

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

Under floorboards is considered accessible so a JB is fine.

Ah, that's great, thanks folks )

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

Under floorboards is considered accessible so a JB is fine.

Providing you are able and willing to lift them if needed
during an electrical inspection. So generally, they are
not regarded as accessible because it could mean damaging
any floor covering (which might be applied at a later date).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but
what is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the
cables - a "traditional" junction box like this http://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink?
The joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

Under floorboards is considered accessible so a JB is fine.

Providing you are able and willing to lift them if needed
during an electrical inspection.

If a new installation - or works which have to be checked - then it would
make sense to do this before laying any covering. If a *thorough*
inspection of an existing installation, floorboards would have to be
lifted anyway. If just a test, the existence of a JB or any cable
connector wouldn't show up - unless faulty.

So generally, they are
not regarded as accessible because it could mean damaging
any floor covering (which might be applied at a later date).

Which means some LV transformers etc can't be sited under floorboards
either.

--
*How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"NT" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 9:33 pm, Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like thishttp://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

TIA

cut the cable, install 2 sockets, each cut end goes to one of them,
and add a linking bit of cable. Otherwise you can use a jbox or
crimps. Soldering's also allowed, but with that you should still use a
jbox to enclose it.


Can anyone point me to a recourse about soldering power cables?
I'm not planning doing any myself, but clearly it must involve
more than twisting the wires together and applying the lead-free
equivalent of 60/40.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

If a new installation - or works which have to be checked - then it
would make sense to do this before laying any covering. If a
*thorough* inspection of an existing installation, floorboards would
have to be lifted anyway. If just a test, the existence of a JB or
any cable connector wouldn't show up - unless faulty.

Fair enough for ring mains. But there are other circs in which the
existence of a JB will be manifest. Eg I have a hall light which is
two-way switched using a traditional junction box under the first floor
floorboards. (I wish now I'd re-done it without but there were time
constraints - plus the constraint that the light hangs via a 6x4 joist
and I did not fancy drilling a big enough hole through that to feed a
junction box.) AIUI any PIR which looks at that light will show the
existence of the junction box and expect it to be available for
inspection. So do I have a way now of avoiding the potential need to
lift the boards?

I had wondered about placing the junction box in a further enclosure
which I then fill with a pourable epoxy. (ISTR doing something of the
like with electronics for use underground many moons ago.) But that
still does no prove to the inspector that there were good and tight
connections before the resin was applied - or indeed that the resin is
really there (despite eg photos). The same seems to be true with
soldered joints. So am I basically stuffed (or whatever the correct
term is under BS 7671:2008) unless I can provide access?
--
R

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:53:36 +0100, "Graham." wrote:



"NT" wrote in message
...
On Aug 12, 9:33 pm, Homer Simpson wrote:
I want to break into the ring main and add a couple of sockets but what
is the current best or the recommended method of jointing the cables - a
"traditional" junction box like thishttp://www.tlc-
direct.co.uk/Products/AAJB30.html or to use crimps and heatshrink? The
joints will just be under normal bedroom floorboards.

TIA

cut the cable, install 2 sockets, each cut end goes to one of them,
and add a linking bit of cable. Otherwise you can use a jbox or
crimps. Soldering's also allowed, but with that you should still use a
jbox to enclose it.


Can anyone point me to a recourse about soldering power cables?
I'm not planning doing any myself, but clearly it must involve
more than twisting the wires together and applying the lead-free
equivalent of 60/40.

No need for lead-free - leaded stuff is easier and lower temp to reduce melting of insulation.
Main think is to use an iron (not blowlamp!) that can pump enough heat into the joint quickly
enough.

In article ,
neverwas wrote:

If a new installation - or works which have to be checked - then it
would make sense to do this before laying any covering. If a
*thorough* inspection of an existing installation, floorboards would
have to be lifted anyway. If just a test, the existence of a JB or
any cable connector wouldn't show up - unless faulty.

Fair enough for ring mains. But there are other circs in which the
existence of a JB will be manifest. Eg I have a hall light which is
two-way switched using a traditional junction box under the first floor
floorboards. (I wish now I'd re-done it without but there were time
constraints - plus the constraint that the light hangs via a 6x4 joist
and I did not fancy drilling a big enough hole through that to feed a
junction box.) AIUI any PIR which looks at that light will show the
existence of the junction box and expect it to be available for
inspection. So do I have a way now of avoiding the potential need to
lift the boards?

I had wondered about placing the junction box in a further enclosure
which I then fill with a pourable epoxy. (ISTR doing something of the
like with electronics for use underground many moons ago.) But that
still does no prove to the inspector that there were good and tight
connections before the resin was applied - or indeed that the resin is
really there (despite eg photos). The same seems to be true with
soldered joints. So am I basically stuffed (or whatever the correct
term is under BS 7671:2008) unless I can provide access?

Absolutely. There could be all sorts of hidden nasties on an installation
that only a visual inspection plus tests would show. Including joints made
specifically for where they can't be inspected. ;-)

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Harrison writes:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:53:36 +0100, "Graham." wrote:

Can anyone point me to a recourse about soldering power cables?
I'm not planning doing any myself, but clearly it must involve
more than twisting the wires together and applying the lead-free
equivalent of 60/40.

No need for lead-free - leaded stuff is easier and lower temp to reduce melting of insulation.
Main think is to use an iron (not blowlamp!) that can pump enough heat into the joint quickly
enough.

Soldering isn't commonly used in the field -- it's not
a skill that many installation electricians have nowadays.

I have done it a few times. I've used a normal junction
box to make the connections as you normally would.
Then solder the terminals/conductors, so they're being
held by both the normal screw terminals (which you can't
any longer turn) and the solder. Normal thermosetting
plastic junction boxes will survive soldering temperatures
for plenty long enough to solder the terminals (although
they won't for hours on end, e.g. overheating terminals).

Don't do this unless you are already very competent at
soldering. You'll need a reasonably large iron (I used
a 50W temp controlled). You need to solder quickly to
avoid damaging the insulation, and you need to layout
the conductors in the JB so there's no stresses/forces
on the insulation (e.g. wires not pressing on each other
or anything else, and no tight bends).

Really, unless you are already very competent at soldering
and have exactly the right kit, use crimps. They'll give
better results in less skilled hands, providing you use a
proper ratchet crimper and correct sized crimps.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Can you pull down any of the wires to the existing ring?
- eg, run in capping or oval or loose in holes if behind skirting

In which case break the ring & just extend accordingly.
- so maintaining the ring structure
- so having all junctions directly accessible

Lifting floorboards sounds easy, but not when covered with a heavy
bed, carpet, fitted furniture or wood.

If redecorating it should be a non-issue to do it "properly". If you
do use a JB, note it on the CU re I&T.