I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

cheers

Jules

On Aug 8, 3:42*pm, Jules
wrote:
I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

cheers

Jules

I think the simplest answer is to add a second pump and wire it up to
the one inside the machine. WM pumps are switched by triacs these days
with lmited current handling abilities, so best use a relay so the WM
triac doesnt see the extra pump power.


NT

Jules wrote:

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

In many US basements, there's a slop sink/washtub, and the drain hose
from the washer is simply clipped to the (in)side of it. I take you
don't have that?

Jules has brought this to us :

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one,
but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height
it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water
in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a
none return valve would be needed.

Could you mount the machine high, rather than on the floor?

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jules has brought this to us :

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and
it'd be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains
through pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but
that's all 50 year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap
into the more modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling
height (drains for the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above).
Can a washing machine pump hope to lift water that high, though, or
is some additional pump mechanism typically used?

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one,
but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height
it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water
in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a
none return valve would be needed.

Could you mount the machine high, rather than on the floor?

A door at waist level or higher would be an advantage.

Though just hope you don't have an off-balance load where it falls off it's
table!!

"Jules" wrote in message
news


I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

There are pumps like saniflow that will push the hot water from washers
about 7 meters up if you get desperate.
Make sure they will pump *hot* water though, many can't.


cheers

Jules

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:54 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Jules has brought this to us :

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one,
but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height
it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water
in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a
none return valve would be needed.

Funnily enough I've just had my Hotpoint in bits today to clean out soap
residue and clumps of fibres after it developed an odour and I found that
the pump has a floating ball non-return valve on the inlet and a rubber
flap tye valve on the outlet as standard.

SteveW

On Aug 8, 6:01*pm, Steve Walker wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:54 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jules has brought this to us :

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one,
but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height
it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water
in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a
none return valve would be needed.

Funnily enough I've just had my Hotpoint in bits today to clean out soap
residue and clumps of fibres after it developed an odour and I found that
the pump has a floating ball non-return valve on the inlet and a rubber
flap tye valve on the outlet as standard.

SteveW

Those reduce the amount of foul water from the drain hose entering the
wash tub, but as non return valves they have patchy effectiveness, and
I certainly wouldnt count on them acting effectively against a head of
water.


NT

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

I think the simplest answer is to add a second pump and wire it up to
the one inside the machine. WM pumps are switched by triacs these days
with lmited current handling abilities, so best use a relay so the WM
triac doesnt see the extra pump power.

Not sure about directly connected (plumbing wise) series pumps. If
they suck/blow at different rates I can envisage problems. Probably
not for simple impellor type pumps, they don't particulary object to
running dry, but worth bearing in mind. You may want slighly
different timing for the additional pump as well so that it clears as
much as it can after the machine pump has switched off.

Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting from
the floor to the ceiling.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:01:47 +0100, wrote:

On 8 Aug,
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

I think the simplest answer is to add a second pump and wire it up to
the one inside the machine. WM pumps are switched by triacs these days
with lmited current handling abilities, so best use a relay so the WM
triac doesnt see the extra pump power.

Not sure about directly connected (plumbing wise) series pumps. If
they suck/blow at different rates I can envisage problems. Probably
not for simple impellor type pumps, they don't particulary object to
running dry, but worth bearing in mind. You may want slighly
different timing for the additional pump as well so that it clears as
much as it can after the machine pump has switched off.

Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting from
the floor to the ceiling.

To use a rude word, Saniflo do a device for this very purpose.

ISTR that a Miele will pump to a reasonable head and has a non-return
valve, but that's one bloody expensive way of doing it.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:37:17 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

On Aug 8, 6:01*pm, Steve Walker wrote:
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:23:54 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Jules has brought this to us :

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

Unlikely the built in pump would cope with even the chest height one,
but you could easily test it by adding pipe and seeing to what height
it could pump. Keep in mind that once it stops running, that the water
in the pipe will flow back into the machine - so even if it works, a
none return valve would be needed.

Funnily enough I've just had my Hotpoint in bits today to clean out soap
residue and clumps of fibres after it developed an odour and I found that
the pump has a floating ball non-return valve on the inlet and a rubber
flap tye valve on the outlet as standard.

SteveW

Those reduce the amount of foul water from the drain hose entering the
wash tub, but as non return valves they have patchy effectiveness, and
I certainly wouldnt count on them acting effectively against a head of
water.


NT

I was just surprised to see them at all - my previous 2 machines and the
various ones I've had in bits over the years for other people have never
had any valves and for the amount they are likely to hold back I would
think them rather unnecessary. Even the slightest leakage would be likely
to empty the outlet pipe completely between washes - if anything, the
outlet valve would be more likely to seal well with a highish head in the
pipework as it would force the flap tight against the seat. My personal
preference would be a separate sump and pump.

SteveW

On 8 Aug, 15:42, Jules
wrote:
I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

cheers

Jules

I know it is mentioned elsewhere, but a saniflow is an answer

I know saniflo is a bit of a dirty word on this site, and they can
sometimes be a bugger if you don't know what you are doing.
But there is a system designed for this purpose (vite)
Fairly straightforward DIY job, but please fit a drain outlet just
above the unit, otherwise you get soaked every time you try to work on
it.

The advantage of this is that it is completely self contained,
relatively maintenace free, and reparable if there are any problems.
And you can add a sink beside the washing machine (always useful)
running into the same unit.

They come with 32mm out, but I have reduced mine down to 15mm pipe
running in the basement ceiling cavity. This suffices easily for the
washing machine. The rise is abot 7ft
And the discharge from the WM is plumbed directly into the saniflo
input pipe with another reducer (so that the WM discharge piep ends
above the water level in the saniflo, to avoid syphoning)

On Aug 8, 7:11*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

I think the simplest answer is to add a second pump and wire it up to
the one inside the machine. WM pumps are switched by triacs these days
with lmited current handling abilities, so best use a relay so the WM
triac doesnt see the extra pump power.

Not sure about directly connected (plumbing wise) series pumps. If
they suck/blow at different rates I can envisage problems. Probably
not for simple impellor type pumps, they don't particulary object to
running dry, but worth bearing in mind.

Series pumps wont pump at different rates, assuming the difference in
power isn't large. Troublesome cavitation or pipe collapse aren't
going to happen on a small low head pump.


You may want slighly
different timing for the additional pump as well so that it clears as
much as it can after the machine pump has switched off.

I see no advantage

Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting from
the floor to the ceiling.

yes - but an open container full of drain waste? not for me. Perhaps
you could seal it and vent it to the waste pipe.

A saniflo has also been suggested - its a heck of an expensive way to
buy a pump.


NT

dennis@home wrote:


"Jules" wrote in message
news


I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains
through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's
all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height (drains for
the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a washing machine
pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is some additional pump
mechanism typically used?

There are pumps like saniflow that will push the hot water from washers
about 7 meters up if you get desperate.
Make sure they will pump *hot* water though, many can't.


Indeed - I had a quote (about £300 IIRC) from a plumber to do exactly
this. He spent a while figuring out if the front drain could take dirty
water, or if it was rain water only. Apparently it's both, simplifying
the job considerably.

Rob

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:27:30 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have
a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting
from
the floor to the ceiling.

yes - but an open container full of drain waste? not for me. Perhaps
you could seal it and vent it to the waste pipe.

A saniflo has also been suggested - its a heck of an expensive way to
buy a pump.

I was thinking more of a 25 gallon or so ordinary water tank with lid
and a small sump pump. It is waste water but from a washing machine
so relatively clean, bung it under the unit with the sink that has
also been mentioned as useful addition.

A Saniflow is an off the shelf solution designed for the job. Fairly
sure you can get them without the bog inlet...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 20:36:02 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Even the slightest leakage would be likely to empty the outlet pipe
completely between washes - if anything, the outlet valve would be more
likely to seal well with a highish head in the pipework as it would
force the flap tight against the seat.

Until a bit of fluff got tangled round the flap...

My personal preference would be a separate sump and pump.

Aye, think of the trouble you would be in should the management find
the machine with a hint of waste water in it or worse just do a spin
cycle and find the clothes muckier afterwards. I get enough grief
when our machine fails to pump clear 'cause of a blocked filter or
button in the pump and that's clean water from the last rinse that
hasn't been out of the machine.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 09:42:03 -0500, Jules wrote:
I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and it'd
be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Ok, thanks all - sounds like a tank with a float valve and additional pump
(plus some sort of drain cock, non-return valve etc.) is the way to go;
even if the current machine's pump would cope on its own, there's no
guarantee a future replacement would.

I suspect I can find a suitable tank and float easily enough for next to
nothing, and the plumbing bit's straightforward enough. Not sure how
easily I can get a pump, though - will have to have a look around.
The local farm supply place almost certainly does basement sump
pumps, but they're perhaps overkill for what I need (and therefore
expensive both to buy and run!)

cheers

J.

Rob wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Jules" wrote in message
news


I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and
it'd be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains
through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's
all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height
(drains for the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a
washing machine pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is
some additional pump mechanism typically used?

There are pumps like saniflow that will push the hot water from
washers about 7 meters up if you get desperate.
Make sure they will pump *hot* water though, many can't.


Indeed - I had a quote (about £300 IIRC) from a plumber to do exactly
this. He spent a while figuring out if the front drain could take
dirty water, or if it was rain water only. Apparently it's both,
simplifying the job considerably.

I've seen several uesd in attached garages with the waste discharging into
the grid outside the garage doors. To my mind its a rainwater soakaway, but
people don't seem bovvered.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Aug 9, 11:40*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:27:30 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:
Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have
a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting
from
the floor to the ceiling.

yes - but an open container full of drain waste? not for me. Perhaps
you could seal it and vent it to the waste pipe.

A saniflo has also been suggested - its a heck of an expensive way to
buy a pump.

I was thinking more of a 25 gallon or so ordinary water tank with lid
and a small sump pump. It is waste water but from a washing machine
so relatively clean, bung it under the unit with the sink that has
also been mentioned as useful addition.

stick your nose near a 5 year old washing machine's outlet, I think
you might change your mind.

A Saniflow is an off the shelf solution designed for the job. Fairly
sure you can get them without the bog inlet...

Yes. So's a central heating pump.


NT

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:23:38 UTC, Jules
wrote:

Ok, thanks all - sounds like a tank with a float valve and additional pump
(plus some sort of drain cock, non-return valve etc.) is the way to go;
even if the current machine's pump would cope on its own, there's no
guarantee a future replacement would.

And another level switch (set high) to turn it ALL off if something
fails....

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Jules wrote :
I suspect I can find a suitable tank and float easily enough for next to
nothing, and the plumbing bit's straightforward enough. Not sure how
easily I can get a pump, though - will have to have a look around.
The local farm supply place almost certainly does basement sump
pumps, but they're perhaps overkill for what I need (and therefore
expensive both to buy and run!)

Unless you are making the sump good and deep, the pumps built on float
switch tend to hang up on their flex. Much more reliable are the pumps
where the float is built into the side of the handle, where it cannot
tangle up due to the flex.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:16:30 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:23:38 UTC, Jules
wrote:

Ok, thanks all - sounds like a tank with a float valve and additional pump
(plus some sort of drain cock, non-return valve etc.) is the way to go;
even if the current machine's pump would cope on its own, there's no
guarantee a future replacement would.

And another level switch (set high) to turn it ALL off if something
fails....

Heh, yes, that sounds like a good plan :-)

As another thought though, given the amount of plumbing running through
the basement - and that the well pump is in there - I wonder about just
going whole-hog and fitting a proper sump-pump anyway, and just draining
the washing machine's outlet into it. It might be a useful thing to have,
and saves on the cost/complexity of having two systems.

cheers

Jules

In article . com,
Jules writes:
On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:16:30 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:23:38 UTC, Jules
wrote:

Ok, thanks all - sounds like a tank with a float valve and additional pump
(plus some sort of drain cock, non-return valve etc.) is the way to go;
even if the current machine's pump would cope on its own, there's no
guarantee a future replacement would.

And another level switch (set high) to turn it ALL off if something
fails....

Heh, yes, that sounds like a good plan :-)

As another thought though, given the amount of plumbing running through
the basement - and that the well pump is in there - I wonder about just
going whole-hog and fitting a proper sump-pump anyway, and just draining
the washing machine's outlet into it. It might be a useful thing to have,
and saves on the cost/complexity of having two systems.

When we lived in the US, the washing machine used to spew out
onto the basement floor in the general direction of a drain
grille, which was the low point of the floor. The whole basement
floor was effectively a wet room.

Being a US washing machine, the outlet water was often very hot
(which was a concern as the basement was also the play room),
and there's many times more water than you get out of a european
machine, although it all went down the drain without any problem.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:13:15 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:

On Aug 9, 11:40*am, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:27:30 -0700 (PDT), NT wrote:
Another solution is to dump the washer waste into a tank and have
a
sump pump with float switch. That won't have any trouble lifting
from
the floor to the ceiling.

yes - but an open container full of drain waste? not for me. Perhaps
you could seal it and vent it to the waste pipe.

A saniflo has also been suggested - its a heck of an expensive way to
buy a pump.

I was thinking more of a 25 gallon or so ordinary water tank with lid
and a small sump pump. It is waste water but from a washing machine
so relatively clean, bung it under the unit with the sink that has
also been mentioned as useful addition.

stick your nose near a 5 year old washing machine's outlet, I think
you might change your mind.

Indeed, hence why I had our machine in bits the other day. We had small
quantities of fibres caught up around the pump inlet and gooey soap residue
around the pump, waste pipework and drum outlet, the result was an awful
stench on the washing and in the kitchen if the machine door was left open
after a wash. After a manual clean out, followed by a 95° wash and then a
60° wash with a washing machine cleaning tablet, all is sweet smelling -
hopefully for a few years.

SteveW

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:02:29 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Rob wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Jules" wrote in message
news

I've heard of it done a lot, at least on this side of the Pond, and
it'd be nice to get ours out of the kitchen...

Getting hot and cold water *to* the machine is easy - I could do the
plumbing in a matter of minutes.

What's involved on the drain side, though? Our sewer system drains
through
pipework in the basement running at about chest height - but that's
all 50
year old cast iron stuff and it'd be far easier to tap into the more
modern PVC which runs through the basement at ceiling height
(drains for the sinks, bath etc. on the ground floor above). Can a
washing machine pump hope to lift water that high, though, or is
some additional pump mechanism typically used?

There are pumps like saniflow that will push the hot water from
washers about 7 meters up if you get desperate.
Make sure they will pump *hot* water though, many can't.


Indeed - I had a quote (about £300 IIRC) from a plumber to do exactly
this. He spent a while figuring out if the front drain could take
dirty water, or if it was rain water only. Apparently it's both,
simplifying the job considerably.

I've seen several uesd in attached garages with the waste discharging into
the grid outside the garage doors. To my mind its a rainwater soakaway, but
people don't seem bovvered.

It depends on the area and the age of the water company's system. Here we
have combined drains - sewage and rainwater go down the same sewer, hence
it is fine, and in fact the norm, to discharge washing machines into the
grids around the house.

SteveW