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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
hi all
Am looking to put up a stud partition to divide a large bedroom into 2 smaller rooms. In the interests of saving a few square inches, what is the thinnest a partition wall can be and still count as a partition wall? Not fussy about materials - maybe there is a metal option? I am looking for a partition of just less than 4 mtrs in total tia! |
#2
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 1 July, 22:48, "
wrote: hi all Am looking to put up a stud partition to divide a large bedroom into 2 smaller rooms. In the interests of saving a few square inches, what is the thinnest a partition wall can be and still count as a partition wall? Not fussy about materials - maybe there is a metal option? I am looking for a partition of just less than 4 mtrs in total tia! The partitions they use in offices are very thin. Metal with plasterboard each side I think. If you want to comply with building regs, you need mineral wool inside the wall. Someone else may have details of this system. Personally, I would use 75mm studs, PB each side, overall wall 100mm thick. There was a system used by house builders once that was basically several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though. Simon. |
#3
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On Jul 2, 9:48 am, "
wrote: hi all Am looking to put up a stud partition to divide a large bedroom into 2 smaller rooms. In the interests of saving a few square inches, what is the thinnest a partition wall can be and still count as a partition wall? Not fussy about materials - maybe there is a metal option? I am looking for a partition of just less than 4 mtrs in total I made partitions out of 18mm particle board flooring. It was supported firmly at the top and bottom and had steel pins in the joins. Probably entirely illegal, but it lasted until the kids grew up. |
#4
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
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#5
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:23 -0700, Simon wrote:
There was a system used by house builders once that was basically several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though. Do you mean the type that had 2 sheets with cardboard ribs between them (think of corrugated cardboard construction but bigger and plasterboard rather than card for the flat surfaces)? Spawn of the devil. :-( -- John Stumbles Xenophobia? Sounds a bit foreign to me. |
#6
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
I built a wall which is a sandwich
12mm ply 3mm sound insulating foam 12mm ply I first fitted angle iron around the edge of the wall-to-be and then trapped it in the ply sandwich. This has worked fine, is rigid and pretty soundproof and lightweight things can be hung from the wall too. Possible gotchas: - The return of the angle iron is visible on the side walls and needs to be hidden somehow which was easy in my shower room but might require more thought in a bedroom - My wall was not very wide (1.5m). I suppose a wider wall might tend to flex Anna |
#7
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On Jul 2, 12:33*am, (Anna Kettle) wrote:
I built a wall which is a sandwich 12mm ply 3mm sound insulating foam 12mm ply I first fitted angle iron around the edge of the wall-to-be and then trapped it in the ply sandwich. This has worked fine, is rigid and pretty soundproof and lightweight things can be hung from the wall too. Possible gotchas: - The return of the angle iron is visible on the side walls and needs to be hidden somehow which was easy in my shower room but might require more thought in a bedroom - My wall was not very wide (1.5m). I suppose a wider wall might tend to flex Anna If overall thickness of the wall is of great concern; a suggestion. Here, where we use wood frame construction most extensively (almost exclusively) and it is simpler for a non professional carpenter, such a myself; The thinnest I would go with might be 2" by 3" (50 a 75 mm) wood studs and probably install, them 'on the flat' so that wall frame will be only 50 mm thick. Use screws rather than nails; use a single bottom sole 2x3 plate, securely fastened to existing floor and a top plate also securely fastened. Using 2by 3s on edge like that is a bit tricky but can be done, by making them a tight fit and using screws at an angle. Also extra bridging between studs, for stiffness. On each side use either 3/8 inch or half inch plasterboard (fire- code?) . Use plasterboard screws; also consider using construction glue glue to affix the PB to studs to make a stiffer wall. Sound proofing won't be the best because both sides of the wall will be fastened to each wood stud. Although f.glass insulation or acoustic batts may help. A regular 2 by 4 (50 by 100mm) stud wall especially with half inch sheet rock each side and baseboards will have an overall thickness of roughly 5.5 inches 138mm!!!!! More adventurous and lightweight could be to rip 2 by 4s down into 2 by 2s (or buy 2x2 studs) and build a very light weight wall; depending on the PB sheeting each side for stiffness. PS. Someone gave me a bunch 2by8 and 2by6 from a deteriorated old deck and fence; making sure all nails were out I was able to run through bench saw to make usable 2by 6 and 2by4, some of the 'new' 2by6 is now part of two rough work benches (it was free!). The rotten edge off cuts and ones not worth saving are for the old Jotul wood stove. Various 2by4 some more than 8 feet, always useful. |
#8
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
......."There was a system used by house builders once that was basically
several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though." My 1988 house has this construction. The ceiling and the floor had a strip of wood nailed on and then plasterboard was fitted to one side. Scraps of plasterboard were stuck onto the inside face and then another sheet was bonded to it to create the other side. I am not impressed, athough I have had no problems in practice. In my spare room I have a wall mounted cupboard above my PC. It hasn't fallen yet and has all my discs and protographic stuff in it. It is very poor at sound insulation. Is this type of construction still allowed? What was it called? Were there any regulations controlling this type of construction? |
#9
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
"John" wrote in message ... ......"There was a system used by house builders once that was basically several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though." My 1988 house has this construction. The ceiling and the floor had a strip of wood nailed on and then plasterboard was fitted to one side. Scraps of plasterboard were stuck onto the inside face and then another sheet was bonded to it to create the other side. I am not impressed, athough I have had no problems in practice. In my spare room I have a wall mounted cupboard above my PC. It hasn't fallen yet and has all my discs and protographic stuff in it. It is very poor at sound insulation. Is this type of construction still allowed? What was it called? Were there any regulations controlling this type of construction? This was called laminating - I had to do a few houses some 15 years back and found it horrible. Reasonably solid once completed but a pig of a job to carry out. You had to put up ceiling and floor battens first, followed by 20mm square uprights and then try to nail a layer of 12.5mm plasterboard to one side. Next was a layer of plank (19mm plasterboard) laminated to the inner face with a sloppy mix of drywall adhesive and providing cutouts for services (cables, pipes etc) followed by the final layer of 12.5mm plasterboard being both stuck and nailed. I haven't heard of it being done for a while though so probably not done any more. The other method was paramount dry partition - this was 2 layers of plasterboard with a corrugated cardboard type inner section. Almost as horrible to erect as lamnating. This needed a top and bottom track fitted first, followed by an upright fixe to one wall. The paramount was then cut to height and then slid onto between the battens until it fitted over the upright stud. Then another upright stud was hammered halfway into the open side and nailed to fix. The process then continued with the next sheet. To the OP - quite a few new homes still have reasonably thin partition walls - 50mm metal stud with 25mm acoustic partition roll (fibreglass) inbetween. Add 12.5mm plasterboard each side and this will give you a 75mm total thickness. |
#10
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Franko wrote:
"John" wrote in message ... ......"There was a system used by house builders once that was basically several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though." My 1988 house has this construction. The ceiling and the floor had a strip of wood nailed on and then plasterboard was fitted to one side. Scraps of plasterboard were stuck onto the inside face and then another sheet was bonded to it to create the other side. I am not impressed, athough I have had no problems in practice. In my spare room I have a wall mounted cupboard above my PC. It hasn't fallen yet and has all my discs and protographic stuff in it. It is very poor at sound insulation. Is this type of construction still allowed? What was it called? Were there any regulations controlling this type of construction? This was called laminating - I had to do a few houses some 15 years back and found it horrible. Reasonably solid once completed but a pig of a job to carry out. You had to put up ceiling and floor battens first, followed by 20mm square uprights and then try to nail a layer of 12.5mm plasterboard to one side. Next was a layer of plank (19mm plasterboard) laminated to the inner face with a sloppy mix of drywall adhesive and providing cutouts for services (cables, pipes etc) followed by the final layer of 12.5mm plasterboard being both stuck and nailed. I haven't heard of it being done for a while though so probably not done any more. The other method was paramount dry partition - this was 2 layers of plasterboard with a corrugated cardboard type inner section. Almost as horrible to erect as lamnating. This needed a top and bottom track fitted first, followed by an upright fixe to one wall. The paramount was then cut to height and then slid onto between the battens until it fitted over the upright stud. Then another upright stud was hammered halfway into the open side and nailed to fix. The process then continued with the next sheet. To the OP - quite a few new homes still have reasonably thin partition walls - 50mm metal stud with 25mm acoustic partition roll (fibreglass) inbetween. Add 12.5mm plasterboard each side and this will give you a 75mm total thickness. Thats about as thin as it gets in office demountable partitioning, and even there 3 " plus 1" of plasterboard is more common. |
#11
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 2 July, 12:59, wrote:
On 2 Jul, * * * *John Stumbles wrote: On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:23 -0700, Simon wrote: There was a system used by house builders once that was basically several sheets of plasterboard glued together. Forget about hanging shelves on it though. Do you mean the type that had 2 sheets with cardboard ribs between them (think of corrugated cardboard construction but bigger and plasterboard rather than card for the flat surfaces)? Spawn of the devil. :-( Paramount partition? Now called something else. I've a couple of walls of it. Excellent for a thinner than usual wall, and /will/ take shelves, as long as you fit suitable lats behind when constructing. Gyproc laminated partitions are even thinner, comprising the surface layers of plasterboard gliued to a core of 19mm gyproc plank with bonding compound. I've one of those in my kitchen extension, which has had heavy cupboards on it for 25 years without moving, and the downstairs bog is partitioned out of the futility room with them. Both excellent for the purpose, although different to trad construction. How do you fix a door to them ? You must have some kind of frame for door openings - 2" stud ? Simon. |
#12
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas..
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#13
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
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#14
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not I should also be sufficiently sound proofed filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that |
#15
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote:
wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded wall with wooden panelling? I should also be sufficiently sound proofed Ideally yes, but is there any regulation within a single dwelling? filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that And possibly using alternate/different vertical studs for attaching plasterboard either side. |
#16
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
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#17
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Fredxx wrote:
tim... wrote: I should also be sufficiently sound proofed Ideally yes, but is there any regulation within a single dwelling? Yes, reasonable resistance to sound is required between [bedrooms or toilets] and [other rooms] per building regs E2(a) might vary between new build and alterations |
#18
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
The Natural Philosopher wrote in
: On 22/06/2020 13:58, wrote: Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. You can get away, but not eliminate entirely, thinner studs with a plywood/mdf cladding. 6mm or 9 mm mdf makes a pretty good wall over a 2x2 frame All my upstars walls are plasterboard (only) spaced with scraps of platerboard. Sat on a 2 x1 edge on and similar at ceiling. Absolute crap. |
#19
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing in fact we had one here separating the pantry from the kitchen. The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec.
Richard |
#20
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 18:41, Tricky Dicky wrote:
There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing in fact we had one here separating the pantry from the kitchen. The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec. Richard Paramount partition ? .... -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
#21
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Tricky Dicky wrote:
There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing Paramount board, my upstairs internal walls are made from it, it's not so bad, total thickness about 63mm. |
#22
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Tricky Dicky wrote:
The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec. There's an equivalent on sale https://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/honeycomb-panel |
#23
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 16:00, Fredxx wrote:
On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote: wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded wall with wooden panelling? Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#24
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 19:05, Andy Burns wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote: There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing Paramount board, my upstairs internal walls are made from it, it's not so bad, total thickness about 63mm. **** easy to work on and add new stuff to if your measurements are correct. -- Adam |
#26
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 20:07, John Rumm wrote:
Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Does this mean you can no longer have timber panelled walls? Andy |
#27
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On Monday, 22 June 2020 21:57:05 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 22/06/2020 20:07, John Rumm wrote: Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Does this mean you can no longer have timber panelled walls? Andy Could always use intumescent varnish or paint NT |
#28
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 19:05, Andy Burns wrote:
Tricky Dicky wrote: There is a type of plasterboard that allows quite thin walls it is usually seen in late sixties and seventies housing Paramount board, my upstairs internal walls are made from it, it's not so bad, total thickness about 63mm. hey I just said that.... -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com |
#29
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
Andy Burns wrote in news:hlcan6Falk6U2
@mid.individual.net: Tricky Dicky wrote: The wall comes as two sheets of plasterboard separated by a paper honeycomb. At the edges the separator is set back to allow quite thin studding to be inserted. I have not seen this being used in modern housing so may now not be up to spec. There's an equivalent on sale https://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/honeycomb-panel Mine do not have honeycomb. There are scraps of plasterboard used as filling for the sandwich. I am not advocating it - but I did watch the houses being built (1988). I live in one. The outer skin was nailed to a batten on the floor and ceiling. Thin door frames were used. |
#30
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 20:07:15, John Rumm wrote:
On 22/06/2020 16:00, Fredxx wrote: On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote: wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded wall with wooden panelling? Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Thanks, as per: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf..._-_fire_safety Shame that ISO EN 13501 is not published too. I'm left wondering if a wooden studded wall would conform to 'D'. |
#31
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 18:02:16, Andy Burns wrote:
Fredxx wrote: tim... wrote: I should also be sufficiently sound proofed Ideally yes, but is there any regulation within a single dwelling? Yes, reasonable resistance to sound is required between [bedrooms or toilets] and [other rooms] per building regs E2(a) might vary between new build and alterations Thanks, as per: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf...ssage_of_sound But doesn't say what reasonable actually is. Especially when the alternative is no wall, or a wall with a door fitted. |
#32
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 22/06/2020 21:57, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 22/06/2020 20:07, John Rumm wrote: Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Does this mean you can no longer have timber panelled walls? Andy Often wondered how those 'build your house for ÂŁ50K' programs got away with using OSB in place of internal plasterboarding for 'visual effect' ?. How did they get that past the BCO ?. |
#33
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
In article ,
tim... wrote: I should also be sufficiently sound proofed filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that Makes very little difference to the sound insulation. Thicker plasterboard does. -- *Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#34
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 23/06/2020 11:16, Fredxx wrote:
On 22/06/2020 20:07:15, John Rumm wrote: On 22/06/2020 16:00, Fredxx wrote: On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote: wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded wall with wooden panelling? Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Thanks, as per: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf..._-_fire_safety Shame that ISO EN 13501 is not published too. Having just looked at part 1 (there are 6 of them, its not a riveting read!) I'mÂ* left wondering if a wooden studded wall would conform to 'D'. D? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#35
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 23/06/2020 15:56:47, John Rumm wrote:
On 23/06/2020 11:16, Fredxx wrote: On 22/06/2020 20:07:15, John Rumm wrote: On 22/06/2020 16:00, Fredxx wrote: On 22/06/2020 15:07:41, tim... wrote: wrote in message ... Hi guys. I want to put a partition in the kids room.. it's only 11x10. No idea what to choose from.. stud wall or I did think maybe a frame and then 8x4 sheets of finished timber.. but want it to be safe too.. any ideas.. if it's a real "wall" between rooms it needs to have a minimum amount of fire protection double skin plasterboard gives that a timber wall will not Can you cite any regulation that prevents me from building a studded wall with wooden panelling? Building regs approved document B: "Internal fire spread (linings) B2.-(1) To inhibit the spread of fire within the building, the internal linings shall- (a) adequately resist the spread of flame over their surfaces; and (b) have, if ignited, either a rate of heat release or a rate of fire growth, which is reasonable in the circumstances. (2) In this paragraph €śinternal linings€ť means the materials or products used in lining any partition, wall, ceiling or other internal structure." Thanks, as per: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf..._-_fire_safety Shame that ISO EN 13501 is not published too. Having just looked at part 1 (there are 6 of them, its not a riveting read!) I'mÂ* left wondering if a wooden studded wall would conform to 'D'. D? https://tristonesolidsurfaces.uk/fire-ratings Grade D - Combustible materials: Medium contribution to fire |
#36
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Stud partition - how thin can it be?
On 23/06/2020 13:36:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , tim... wrote: I should also be sufficiently sound proofed filling the void with rock wool (or similar) achieves that Makes very little difference to the sound insulation. Thicker plasterboard does. There are a massive range of rockwool sound insulation products on the market. I'm sure plain old rockwool would be far better than nothing. |
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