Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

When I push the file into the handle by hand, it goes in about 10mm
before jamming up. I suspect that the hole in the handle is the right
size for needle files and too small for the tang on the file I have.

I'm thinking I should drill the handle out a bit for about half the
length of the tang, so the hole is "stepped".

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

I've googled for help, but haven't found anything useful. I'm reluctant
to just hammer the handle onto the file in case the file shatters or the
handle splits.

Any advice or comments welcome.
Rumble

Dave Osborne wrote:
Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

When I push the file into the handle by hand, it goes in about 10mm
before jamming up. I suspect that the hole in the handle is the right
size for needle files and too small for the tang on the file I have.

I'm thinking I should drill the handle out a bit for about half the
length of the tang, so the hole is "stepped".

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

I've googled for help, but haven't found anything useful. I'm reluctant
to just hammer the handle onto the file in case the file shatters or the
handle splits.

Any advice or comments welcome.
Rumble
NEVER hammer a file into a handle. Drilling out is Ok if you must but
normally you insert the tang in by hand and then strike the rounded end
of the handle on a hard surface a few times. the inertia of the file
will drive the handle on.
If it works loose in use then just repeat the above.

Heating will not affect the business end of the file as the tang should
be soft.

hth

Bob

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:52:21 +0100, Dave Osborne wrote:

Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

JOOI, why do files lack any kind of useful way of securely attaching a
handle? I keep finding ones with split handles or ones where the handle
just keeps falling off due to wear; why aren't files equipped with a hole
(say) for pinning the handle into place - or one of many other possible
fixing methods?

I assume they're designed that way for a reason...

cheers

Jules

Dave Osborne wrote:

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.


I think you should contact the manufacturer and file a complaint. ;-)

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

On Jun 23, 4:05*pm, David in Normandy
wrote:
Dave Osborne wrote:
I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

I think you should contact the manufacturer and file a complaint. ;-)

Yeah, it's a ******* when the handle falls off.

On 23 June, 12:52, Dave Osborne wrote:

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

Easiest way is to use "Python" handles - wooden handles with an
internal steel spring. Easy to fit and solid (so long as your file
tangs are straight and the correct taper)

Avoid plastic handles - they're nasty and always wobble.

Danish oil is a good finish for wooden file handles.

I'm thinking I should drill the handle out a bit for about half the
length of the tang, so the hole is "stepped".

Very hard to do accurately.

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

Yes. Traditional way.

Wrap the file in leather or cardboard and clamp it upright in a vice,
with the toe resting firmly on the shank of the vice.

Heat the tip of the tang until it just thinks about glowing. Quickly
plunge the handle over this and hold it there while it burns in.
Remove it quickly, before it jams. Don't stab your hand into a red-
hot file tang, it makes you feel a right eejit.

Repeat. Half dozen times. Heating is easier than hammering.

When it fits, drive the handle properly home. Use a mallet, not a
hammer. Only do this if the file is securely anchored against flying
sideways, and the teeth won't get munched. If you don't have a big
enough vice with a flat shank, hold the file loosely in a gloved hand
instead and wallop downwards against a log-end or previously abused
benchtop.

If you burned it enough, you won't split it.

Andy Dingley wrote:


however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

Yes. Traditional way.

Wrap the file in leather or cardboard and clamp it upright in a vice,
with the toe resting firmly on the shank of the vice.

Heat the tip of the tang until it just thinks about glowing. Quickly
plunge the handle over this and hold it there while it burns in.
Remove it quickly, before it jams. Don't stab your hand into a red-
hot file tang, it makes you feel a right eejit.

Repeat. Half dozen times. Heating is easier than hammering.

When it fits, drive the handle properly home. Use a mallet, not a
hammer. Only do this if the file is securely anchored against flying
sideways, and the teeth won't get munched. If you don't have a big
enough vice with a flat shank, hold the file loosely in a gloved hand
instead and wallop downwards against a log-end or previously abused
benchtop.

If you burned it enough, you won't split it.


OK, thanks for that Andy - I might give it a go next time.

I couldn't wait, so I drilled out the handle with a step (3.5mm all the
way then 4.5mm half way, if you're interested) and then "[held] the file
loosely in a gloved hand and wallop[ed] downwards against a [...]
previously abused benchtop." ;-)

So far, so good.

David in Normandy wrote:
Dave Osborne wrote:

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.


I think you should contact the manufacturer and file a complaint. ;-)


Nice one but they would think of you as a bit of a ******* to FILE a
complaint

If you buy a decent handle with a metal ferrule (I know hard to come by
these days but try a proper tool merchant, the sheds are a waste of
time) and one that is the right size for the tang just insert it and
holding the file bang it a few times on a solid surface.

As a 16 year old apprentice I tried to take a short cut and used a metal
hammer to bang it in, learnt my lesson by sitting in A&E for hours to
have the shard removed from my eye, thankfully no permanent damage.

You can also buy plastic handles with a gripping mechanism but a bugger
to remove if like me you have more files than handles and swop them about.

--
Corporal Jones
"I don't like it up me"

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:41:14 UTC, mike wrote:

On Jun 23, 4:05Â*pm, David in Normandy
wrote:
Dave Osborne wrote:
I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

I think you should contact the manufacturer and file a complaint. ;-)

Yeah, it's a ******* when the handle falls off.

LOL! That remark has the tang of long experience...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Dave Osborne wrote:

then "[held] the file
loosely in a gloved hand and wallop[ed] downwards against a [...]
previously abused benchtop." ;-)

The correct technique is to hold the handle, with the file vertical then
bang it down sharply onto something solid (anvil, rear of the bench
vice, work bench if it's a proper one and not the wobbly crap sold in
sheds.

The next trick you need to learn is how to get the handle off.

Jules wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:52:21 +0100, Dave Osborne wrote:

Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

JOOI, why do files lack any kind of useful way of securely attaching a
handle? I keep finding ones with split handles or ones where the
handle just keeps falling off due to wear; why aren't files equipped
with a hole (say) for pinning the handle into place - or one of many
other possible fixing methods?

I assume they're designed that way for a reason...

Good point. You wouldn't buy a screwdriver or chisel like that would you?
Why files?

Why don't they all have moulded plastic handles?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:


Why don't they all have moulded plastic handles?


Without handles, they take up less space and are easier to file away. :-)

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

David in Normandy wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:


Why don't they all have moulded plastic handles?


Without handles, they take up less space and are easier to file away.
:-)

Rasp! :-p


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Jules wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:52:21 +0100, Dave Osborne wrote:

Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.
JOOI, why do files lack any kind of useful way of securely attaching a
handle? I keep finding ones with split handles or ones where the
handle just keeps falling off due to wear; why aren't files equipped
with a hole (say) for pinning the handle into place - or one of many
other possible fixing methods?

I assume they're designed that way for a reason...

Good point. You wouldn't buy a screwdriver or chisel like that would you?
Why files?

Why don't they all have moulded plastic handles?



Seriously, I think the reason files don't come with handles is because
from an industry point of view files are consumable. They become blunt
and, as they can't practically be resharpened, they get discarded.
The handle could, however, last a lifetime...

On 23 June, 19:43, (Steve Firth) wrote:

The correct technique is to hold the handle, with the file vertical then
bang it down sharply onto something solid

Yeah, drove the guy to casualty after that one.

It's OK if the handle is already "almost on". If you're starting
though, especially if you didn't burn it enough, and then you slip;
the file tips sideways the handle misses and you spike your hand on
the tang.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On 23 June, 19:43, (Steve Firth) wrote:

The correct technique is to hold the handle, with the file vertical then
bang it down sharply onto something solid

Yeah, drove the guy to casualty after that one.

It's OK if the handle is already "almost on". If you're starting
though, especially if you didn't burn it enough, and then you slip;
the file tips sideways the handle misses and you spike your hand on
the tang.

One would have to be a bit of plank to cock up like that.

I think it's about time they started to teach metalwork in schools,
again.

"Dave Osborne" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

When I push the file into the handle by hand, it goes in about 10mm before
jamming up. I suspect that the hole in the handle is the right size for
needle files and too small for the tang on the file I have.

I'm thinking I should drill the handle out a bit for about half the length
of the tang, so the hole is "stepped".

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang into
the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect it's
hardness.

I've googled for help, but haven't found anything useful. I'm reluctant to
just hammer the handle onto the file in case the file shatters or the
handle splits.

Any advice or comments welcome.
Rumble

If the handle is the right size for the tang it should go on about 1/2 to
3/4 of the way before needing tapping home. The way to do that is place the
handle end downwards on a wooden surface and tap the end of the file with
another block of wood. You don't do it by holding the handle and banging the
end of the file on a wooden surface. That's a good recipe for the handle
coming off on the upstroke and you impaling your hand on the tang on the
downstroke before the file has fallen over. At a pinch you can hold the file
with a gloved hand and bang the handle downwards on a wooden surface. Golden
rule though is never strike towards the tang with your bare hand.

If the handle doesn't go on far enough to start with then yes you can drill
it out a bit more. The handles are made from soft wood though so they
usually deform enough to let the tang seat fully.
--
Dave Baker

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:52:21 +0100
Dave Osborne wrote:

Hi,

I've just bought a 4" file with a separate 3" wooden handle.

When I push the file into the handle by hand, it goes in about 10mm
before jamming up. I suspect that the hole in the handle is the right
size for needle files and too small for the tang on the file I have.

I'm thinking I should drill the handle out a bit for about half the
length of the tang, so the hole is "stepped".

That's what I'd do, but a proper taper reamer does a better job.

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

must try this, it's a good idea. You could always file up a bit of
metal as a burning tool to avoid drawing the temper on the file. But
the tang should be dead soft anyway - just don't quench it when it's
hot.

I've googled for help, but haven't found anything useful. I'm reluctant
to just hammer the handle onto the file in case the file shatters or the
handle splits.

don't do that whatever! not under any circumstances.

Any advice or comments welcome.
Rumble


I always make my own handles from Ash with a bit of brass or copper pipe
as a ferrule - they are fun to turn too. You need a taper reamer to get
the right round hole, then the edges of the rectangular tang grip well
when the handle is banged on (bang handle on bench - no hammer
allowed). Any tendency to waggle in the short dimension, then use
wedges to centre the tang.

I never make the handle fully round, it always has a flat on one side
so that it doesn't roll. Same with great old chisels bought at car
boot sales, a good grind and a new handle, better than the new ones.

Every new hand tool needs fettling. I would resist buying files with
moulded handles, but that's me.

R.

"Dave Osborne" wrote in message
...


Why don't they all have moulded plastic handles?



Seriously, I think the reason files don't come with handles is because
from an industry point of view files are consumable. They become blunt
and, as they can't practically be resharpened, they get discarded.

Some people prefer small handles and some large handles.

The handle could, however, last a lifetime...

On 24 June, 01:02, (Steve Firth) wrote:

The correct technique is to hold the handle, with the file vertical then
bang it down sharply onto something solid

Yeah, drove the guy to casualty after that one.

One would have to be a bit of plank to cock up like that.

There are two problems with this method:

* Firstly there _are_ planks in circulation. You have to organise a
workshop to keep them moderately safe too.

* Secondly it doesn't work too well. _Use_ the inertia of the heavy
file, so bang the file into the stationary handle instead, or knock
the light handle onto the heavy file. Bashing a heavy file up and
down against a bench whilst hoping the lightweight handle decides to
go on tighter is somewhat contra-Newton.

On 23 June, 23:54, Dave Osborne wrote:

They become blunt
and, as they can't practically be resharpened, they get discarded.

Files certainly can be resharpened - it's an acid etch. One school of
thought (currently fashionable in the USA) is that new files aren't
sharp enough until they've been resharpened, so some people send their
new ones off straight away.

Mostly though you just need to buy decent files, which means Swiss
Grobert ones. US Nicholsons are OK, are are old-stock Sheffield
files, if they're still fresh. Chinese and Brazilian are anything but.

Andy Dingley wrote:



* Secondly it doesn't work too well. _Use_ the inertia of the heavy
file, so bang the file into the stationary handle instead, or knock
the light handle onto the heavy file. Bashing a heavy file up and
down against a bench whilst hoping the lightweight handle decides to
go on tighter is somewhat contra-Newton.

It's also not what I recommended. You seem to have misread/misunderstood
my recommendation. The handle is the thing that strikes the surface, not
the file.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 23 June, 23:54, Dave Osborne wrote:

They become blunt
and, as they can't practically be resharpened, they get discarded.

Files certainly can be resharpened - it's an acid etch. One school of
thought (currently fashionable in the USA) is that new files aren't
sharp enough until they've been resharpened, so some people send their
new ones off straight away.

Mostly though you just need to buy decent files, which means Swiss
Grobert ones. US Nicholsons are OK, are are old-stock Sheffield
files, if they're still fresh. Chinese and Brazilian are anything but.


Nicholsons is where I'm at, although they do have a factory in Brazil...

I take it you don't rate Bahco or CK, then?

Dave Osborne wrote:


I take it you don't rate Bahco or CK, then?

I've got a Bahco adjustable spanner. Quite a good tool, had it for
years. Please don't tell me it is Chinese!

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:23:59 -0500, Jules wrote:
JOOI, why do files lack any kind of useful way of securely attaching a
handle? I keep finding ones with split handles or ones where the handle
just keeps falling off due to wear; why aren't files equipped with a hole
(say) for pinning the handle into place - or one of many other possible
fixing methods?

I assume they're designed that way for a reason...

brainwave...

I suppose the *handles* wear whilst the file tang doesn't - so the only
way to stop the handles loosening over time is to just rely on a friction
fit which can be adjusted as the handle wears (any bolt/collar would
fix the handle in relation to the tang, and it'd wobble all over the place
as it wore)

Handles can be replaced cheaply, I suppose - but if the file's in heavy
use then it would get annoying having to do that regularly.

Could that be it?

cheers

Jules

David in Normandy wrote:

I've got a Bahco adjustable spanner. Quite a good tool, had it for
years. Please don't tell me it is Chinese!

Hardly. They are Swedish.

On 24 June, 15:22, (Steve Firth) wrote:

It's also not what I recommended.

That'll be because you didn't specify which way up you were holding
the file.

On 24 June, 15:45, David in Normandy
wrote:

I've got a Bahco adjustable spanner. Quite a good tool, had it for
years. Please don't tell me it is Chinese!

Not if it's an old one.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On 24 June, 15:22, (Steve Firth) wrote:

It's also not what I recommended.

That'll be because you didn't specify which way up you were holding
the file.

It'll be because you made an assumption and didn't stop to think.

On 24 June, 16:12, (Steve Firth) wrote:
David in Normandy wrote:

I've got a Bahco adjustable spanner. Quite a good tool, had it for
years. Please don't tell me it is Chinese!

Hardly. They are Swedish.

Check the manufacturing location on their recent products

Andy Dingley wrote:

On 24 June, 16:12, (Steve Firth) wrote:
David in Normandy wrote:

I've got a Bahco adjustable spanner. Quite a good tool, had it for
years. Please don't tell me it is Chinese!

Hardly. They are Swedish.

Check the manufacturing location on their recent products

Quinton?

On Jun 25, 3:15 am, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 24 June, 15:22, (Steve Firth) wrote:

It's also not what I recommended.

That'll be because you didn't specify which way up you were holding
the file.

Were you not taught this method of putting a wooden handle on a file
when you were a lad, or at any other time?

On 25 June, 09:25, Matty F wrote:

Were you not taught this method of putting a wooden handle on a file
when you were a lad, or at any other time?

I've been told lots of ways, and I've also seen people using several
others.

The ones that involve banging anything where your hand is near the
tang aren't an example that ought to be copied.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 June, 09:25, Matty F wrote:

Were you not taught this method of putting a wooden handle on a file
when you were a lad, or at any other time?

I've been told lots of ways, and I've also seen people using several
others.

The ones that involve banging anything where your hand is near the
tang aren't an example that ought to be copied.

The practice of putting a file handle on a file and banging the handle
onto some thing hard is common practice in engineering, so why do you
say that it should not be coppied?

If you look at a file handle, you will see that it has a metal ferule at
the file end of it. This is there to prevent the tang from coming out,
through the handle, and biting your hand.

Dave

On 25 June, 18:24, Dave wrote:

The practice of putting a file handle on a file and banging the handle
onto some thing hard is common practice in engineering, so why do you
say that it should not be coppied?

Many people. when prompted to "bang a file" will grab it by the handle
- the obvious thing to grab it by. This may lead to injury. It's also
a poor way to seat the handle.


If you look at a file handle, you will see that it has a metal ferule at
the file end of it.

You know, I'd never noticed that.

This is there to prevent the tang from coming out,
through the handle, and biting your hand.

A tang is perfectly capable of coming out of the back of the handle
(more likely, I would suggest). If the handle splits, and the file has
a long enough tang, there's little to stop it.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 25 June, 18:24, Dave wrote:

The practice of putting a file handle on a file and banging the handle
onto some thing hard is common practice in engineering, so why do you
say that it should not be coppied?

Many people. when prompted to "bang a file" will grab it by the handle
- the obvious thing to grab it by. This may lead to injury. It's also
a poor way to seat the handle.


If you look at a file handle, you will see that it has a metal ferule at
the file end of it.

You know, I'd never noticed that.

This is there to prevent the tang from coming out,
through the handle, and biting your hand.

A tang is perfectly capable of coming out of the back of the handle
(more likely, I would suggest). If the handle splits, and the file has
a long enough tang, there's little to stop it.

Appart from the ferule at the front of the handle.

Tangs are sized to prevent this, as are file handles.

In the 40 years I have spent on the tools and then mentoring others as a
team leader in development, I have never seen a file tange come anywhere
near a hand.

Dave

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Dave Osborne
saying something like:

however, someone in the pub mentioned the idea of "burning" the tang
into the handle, but it seems to me that heating the file might affect
it's hardness.

The tang is soft, so heating it as suggested would be ok.