On Jun 11, 1:23*pm, "Archie" wrote:
I use good british lumpwood charcoal too - lights easy enough with
firelighters - I've been using these:

*http://www.zipfires.co.uk/zip-natural.html

No parafin smell!

I use a chimney starter and a few of sheets of old newspaper. The charcoal
lights up very quickly.

For the fastest known method for lighting a barbeque see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPxDOEdsX8

On Jun 11, 9:16*am, "Archie" wrote:
Normally cast iron grills are porcelain coated (but not always).

No, they are not.

Try *a google search for Outback porcelain grill

Try a dictionary search for the word "normally".

MBQ

dennis@home wrote:
"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between
the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks - apart
from the 30
min wait.

Ahhhh... But Holy Wars have been fought over less...

I'm in the charcoal camp myself - it's all part of the ritual,
especially if it's a social gathering. Bit like comparing some
mid-europeans to some more north... The midlanders would chat, sip
wine, slowly get together and cook a bit, shrug a bit, eat a bit,
chat, etc.... The northerners: Click, Whoosh, Now Ve Vill Eat. ...
:-) As for the way they cook - yes, heat applied to meat/veg cooks it
more or less the same... As for the flavour - well, there's no
comparison there!!!

In a traditional BBQ the flavour comes from the vaporising fat
dripping on the coals and the smoke from the wood chips.
If you like that taste then gas is no good.

If you like the flavour from a marinade or spray on smoke then gas is
easier.

Almost right Dennipoo's. BBQ food gets its flavour from the smoke from the
fat vapourising when it hits 'either' the hot charcoal or the hot lava rocks
(heated by the gas burner. Since charcoal & lava rocks are completely inert
it matters not what causes the fat to vapourise.

You can just as easily add wood chips to lava rocks if you want hickory
smoked flavour of whatever.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Archie wrote:
I have one. It's crap. It doesn't get hot enough, it blows out too
easily, the cooking area is very small and it came with a totally
inadequate number of lava rocks. I'm going back to charcoal.

Can you justify that rather sweeping statement?
I don't actually have to. You see, I foolishly bought an Outback
barbie, it's crap, therefore I shall never buy another one.

I agree, Gas is crap. You foolishly bought a gas one.

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks -
apart from the 30 min wait.


But there is a complete difference in flavour and taste.

Caused by? Charcoal is inert & doesn't taste or smell of anything -0 thats
why they use it in filters.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I agree, Gas is crap. You foolishly bought a gas one.

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks -
apart from the 30 min wait.

But you smoke, don't you? ;-)

So does my BBQ :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Archie wrote:
I have one. It's crap. It doesn't get hot enough, it blows out
too
easily, the cooking area is very small and it came with a
totally
inadequate number of lava rocks. I'm going back to charcoal.

Can you justify that rather sweeping statement?
I don't actually have to. You see, I foolishly bought an
Outback
barbie, it's crap, therefore I shall never buy another one.

I agree, Gas is crap. You foolishly bought a gas one.

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference
whatsoever
between the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ
cooks -
apart from the 30 min wait.


But there is a complete difference in flavour and taste.

Caused by? Charcoal is inert & doesn't taste or smell of
anything -0 thats
why they use it in filters.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



Inert - I don't think so or it wouldn't burn !

( INERT....' Not readily reactive with other elements; forming few or
no chemical compounds' )

AWEM

..

Andrew Mawson wrote:

But there is a complete difference in flavour and taste.

Caused by? Charcoal is inert & doesn't taste or smell of anything -0
thats why they use it in filters.


Inert - I don't think so or it wouldn't burn !

( INERT....' Not readily reactive with other elements; forming few or
no chemical compounds' )

Oh FFS, it's the Medway Pratt on his mission to prove that he knows
****-all about chemistry, again.

Charcoal is not "inert". And if it were it would be useless for
filtration. The material used for filters is "activated" charcoal. This
is produced either by a chemical treatment (sodium hydroxide followed by
roasting in an oven is one such treatment) or phsyically such as by the
action of steam on charcoal heated to 1200C in an anaerobic oven.

This produces a material with many small pores, a huge surface area and
the ability to absorb some chemicals actively onto the surface. That is,
it is far from inert. It's also not the same material used for
barbecues. No one in their right mind would produce expensive activated
charcoal just to burn it.

Barbecue charcoal retains some organic material other than carbon. The
process doesn't run at high enough temperatures to drive off all the
volatile compounds, as if fairly obvious if one opens a bag of charcoal
and sniffs it.

Charcoal briquettes are something else again, these often contain coal
ash and assorted rubbish bound together with starch paste. I wouldn't
cook food with it.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between
the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks - apart
from the 30
min wait.
Ahhhh... But Holy Wars have been fought over less...

I'm in the charcoal camp myself - it's all part of the ritual,
especially if it's a social gathering. Bit like comparing some
mid-europeans to some more north... The midlanders would chat, sip
wine, slowly get together and cook a bit, shrug a bit, eat a bit,
chat, etc.... The northerners: Click, Whoosh, Now Ve Vill Eat. ...
:-) As for the way they cook - yes, heat applied to meat/veg cooks it
more or less the same... As for the flavour - well, there's no
comparison there!!!
In a traditional BBQ the flavour comes from the vaporising fat
dripping on the coals and the smoke from the wood chips.
If you like that taste then gas is no good.

If you like the flavour from a marinade or spray on smoke then gas is
easier.

Almost right Dennipoo's. BBQ food gets its flavour from the smoke from the
fat vapourising when it hits 'either' the hot charcoal or the hot lava rocks
(heated by the gas burner. Since charcoal & lava rocks are completely inert
it matters not what causes the fat to vapourise.

Charcoal is not inert by any means. There's loads of pyrolised (?)
chemistry in it from the original wood, and its that which gives the
smoky flavour, not the burnt fat.


You can just as easily add wood chips to lava rocks if you want hickory
smoked flavour of whatever.

Well you can, but thats not teh same as carmionised wood tahts been
around a while.

Its like saying that grain alcohol is 'just the same' as vintage wine,
just throw some grape juice and water at it'

If you want an outdoor gas cooker, that's fine. Just don't call it a
barbecue, because it ain't.

Steve Firth wrote:
Andrew Mawson wrote:

But there is a complete difference in flavour and taste.
Caused by? Charcoal is inert & doesn't taste or smell of anything -0
thats why they use it in filters.

Inert - I don't think so or it wouldn't burn !

( INERT....' Not readily reactive with other elements; forming few or
no chemical compounds' )

Oh FFS, it's the Medway Pratt on his mission to prove that he knows
****-all about chemistry, again.

Charcoal is not "inert". And if it were it would be useless for
filtration. The material used for filters is "activated" charcoal. This
is produced either by a chemical treatment (sodium hydroxide followed by
roasting in an oven is one such treatment) or phsyically such as by the
action of steam on charcoal heated to 1200C in an anaerobic oven.

This produces a material with many small pores, a huge surface area and
the ability to absorb some chemicals actively onto the surface. That is,
it is far from inert. It's also not the same material used for
barbecues. No one in their right mind would produce expensive activated
charcoal just to burn it.

Barbecue charcoal retains some organic material other than carbon. The
process doesn't run at high enough temperatures to drive off all the
volatile compounds, as if fairly obvious if one opens a bag of charcoal
and sniffs it.

Charcoal briquettes are something else again, these often contain coal
ash and assorted rubbish bound together with starch paste. I wouldn't
cook food with it.

For once I agree with you.

Briquttes are carp.

Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as well.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as well.

When I'm in Italy we use olive wood from pruning our trees. It's the
best wood for barbecues IMO, especially for lamb. The only negative with
it is that it burns much hotter than oak/beech and it needs experience
to get the best from it. In the UK we use apple and oak. Bagged charcoal
is really one for when I'm in a hurry and I use willow and beech
charcoal produced by a friend of my wife.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
dennis@home wrote:
"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between
the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks - apart
from the 30
min wait.

Ahhhh... But Holy Wars have been fought over less...

I'm in the charcoal camp myself - it's all part of the ritual,
especially if it's a social gathering. Bit like comparing some
mid-europeans to some more north... The midlanders would chat, sip
wine, slowly get together and cook a bit, shrug a bit, eat a bit,
chat, etc.... The northerners: Click, Whoosh, Now Ve Vill Eat. ...
:-) As for the way they cook - yes, heat applied to meat/veg cooks it
more or less the same... As for the flavour - well, there's no
comparison there!!!

In a traditional BBQ the flavour comes from the vaporising fat
dripping on the coals and the smoke from the wood chips.
If you like that taste then gas is no good.

If you like the flavour from a marinade or spray on smoke then gas is
easier.

Almost right Dennipoo's. BBQ food gets its flavour from the smoke from
the fat vapourising when it hits 'either' the hot charcoal or the hot lava
rocks (heated by the gas burner. Since charcoal & lava rocks are
completely inert it matters not what causes the fat to vapourise.

Charcoal is far from inert.
You will find it in (some (I have to insert that because you don't
understand normal English)) safety masks because it is not inert.

You can just as easily add wood chips to lava rocks if you want hickory
smoked flavour of whatever.

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as well.

When I'm in Italy we use olive wood from pruning our trees. It's the
best wood for barbecues IMO,
Pretty damned good for an open fire too, a little goes a long way and
gives good heat

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

A day without sunshine is like... night

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
Andrew Mawson wrote:

But there is a complete difference in flavour and taste.
Caused by? Charcoal is inert & doesn't taste or smell of anything
-0 thats why they use it in filters.

Inert - I don't think so or it wouldn't burn !

( INERT....' Not readily reactive with other elements; forming few
or no chemical compounds' )

Oh FFS, it's the Medway Pratt on his mission to prove that he knows
****-all about chemistry, again.

Its the Firth ****wit again!

Charcoal is not "inert". And if it were it would be useless for
filtration. The material used for filters is "activated" charcoal.
This is produced either by a chemical treatment (sodium hydroxide
followed by roasting in an oven is one such treatment) or phsyically
such as by the action of steam on charcoal heated to 1200C in an
anaerobic oven. This produces a material with many small pores, a huge
surface area
and the ability to absorb some chemicals actively onto the surface.
That is, it is far from inert. It's also not the same material used
for barbecues. No one in their right mind would produce expensive
activated charcoal just to burn it.

Why are you wasting everyones time by trying to prove how clever you are.?
Clue The discussion is about barbeques.


Barbecue charcoal retains some organic material other than carbon.
The process doesn't run at high enough temperatures to drive off all
the volatile compounds, as if fairly obvious if one opens a bag of
charcoal and sniffs it.

BBQ charcoal is 85% to 98% carbon, most of the remainder is ash. 'Inert' in
that it doesn't taste or smell of anything. Thus when the fat from meat
drips on to it, the fat vapourises in exactly the same way as fat dripping
on lava rock. No ****ing difference at all.

****wit.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as
well.

When I'm in Italy we use olive wood from pruning our trees. It's the
best wood for barbecues IMO,

Ooooh look at me, I'm so trendy I use olive wood to BBQ. What a ******.

BBQ's use charcoal, it doesn't matter what ****ing wood it is. Charcoal is
charcoal.

Trying to promote your dodgy olive oil business again? Lidl & Aldi sell
better stuff at half the price.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as
well.
When I'm in Italy we use olive wood from pruning our trees. It's the
best wood for barbecues IMO,

Ooooh look at me, I'm so trendy I use olive wood to BBQ. What a ******.

BBQ's use charcoal, it doesn't matter what ****ing wood it is. Charcoal is
charcoal.


As paint is paint. There's no difference between trade white and farrow
and ball after all.

As wood is wood.. why use oak when you can use spruce?

Trying to promote your dodgy olive oil business again? Lidl & Aldi sell
better stuff at half the price.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...

Steve Firth wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Scarp branches off trees are pretty good. Maple I quite like as
well.

When I'm in Italy we use olive wood from pruning our trees. It's the
best wood for barbecues IMO,

Ooooh look at me, I'm so trendy I use olive wood to BBQ. What a ******.

BBQ's use charcoal, it doesn't matter what ****ing wood it is. Charcoal
is charcoal.

Trying to promote your dodgy olive oil business again? Lidl & Aldi sell
better stuff at half the price.

You don't get far arguing the toss with an opinionated and occasionally
abrasive character like Mr Firth by throwing the baby out with the bath
water and taking the other extreme of talking b*ll*cks, even if the two of
you don't get on!

I suggest he uses olive wood not to be trendy but because he has a lot of
it, which is perfectly reasonable. It is not unreasonable to suppose
different woods have different effects in barbecues and he likes olive wood.
Olive oils vary a lot - that doesn't mean his is the best, or worth the
money he charges, but there are undoubtedly EU promoted labelling mini-scams
and, while Lidl stuff is probably half the price, I wouldn't declare how
good it is without tasting both, which I doubt you have done.

Charcoal briquettes are about the worst thing you can get though.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 14 June, 00:08, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

BBQ's use charcoal, it doesn't matter what wood it is. *

Whilst it's generally true that "barbecues use charcoal" you can get
charcoal by either partially burning it in a clamp or retort first
(i.e. the bagged stuff you buy), or else you can burn wood on the
barbecue until it's burned down to just charcoal. Cooking over burning
wood, before it's down to just the charcoal, makes your food taste of
wood more than of food.

The second only works if you're using a few non-resinous hardwoods.
Beech and fruitwoods are good, oak isn't unless it's in 6" cubes and
you've a few hours to wait. Ash burns too quickly and doesn't leave
enough charcoal behind. Softwoods are useless - all the heat they have
to offer was in that resin. If your larch is still hot enough to cook
over, your sausage will taste, literally, of turpentine.

Never tried olive. But it's a slow-growing dense timber, so I'd expect
it to burn like English fruitwoods. Give it longer to burn up before
you cook, but then it's fine.

Charcoal is charcoal.

Charcoal varies a lot, according to the species it's made from and how
carefully it's made.

Andy Dingley wrote:

Never tried olive. But it's a slow-growing dense timber, so I'd expect
it to burn like English fruitwoods. Give it longer to burn up before
you cook, but then it's fine.

It produces good coals when burned, it is a very dense wood ideal for
carving, it's also unusual in being a wood that will burn easily when
green. It doesn't take long to burn down to charcoal and then it will
smoulder for a long time and as John Mulrooney said earlier a little
goes a long way and it produced a good heat. I don't know of any olive
farmers who use anything else for a barbecue. The smoke from burning
green leaves can be used to add flavour to the food, just as people add
hickory wood chips to charcoal fires in the USA.

In message , Steve Firth
writes
Andy Dingley wrote:

Never tried olive. But it's a slow-growing dense timber, so I'd expect
it to burn like English fruitwoods. Give it longer to burn up before
you cook, but then it's fine.

It produces good coals when burned, it is a very dense wood ideal for
carving, it's also unusual in being a wood that will burn easily when
green.

Yes, but where's the cheapest car hire place in Naples?



--
geoff

geoff wrote:

Yes, but where's the cheapest car hire place in Naples?

****nose, only a loony would go to Napoli.

Oh hang on, I've seen the ads in the local paper for car hire in Napoli.
You err probably wouldn't want the *cheapest* car hire place. IIRC you
don't even need a driving licence.

Yup.

Malbes Service Station, Cagliari. Eur 23 per day for a Ligier.

In message , Steve Firth
writes
geoff wrote:

Yes, but where's the cheapest car hire place in Naples?

****nose, only a loony would go to Napoli.

Wedding, no choice

I have my violin case


Oh hang on, I've seen the ads in the local paper for car hire in Napoli.
You err probably wouldn't want the *cheapest* car hire place. IIRC you
don't even need a driving licence.

Yup.

Malbes Service Station, Cagliari. Eur 23 per day for a Ligier.

5 up ?


--
geoff

geoff wrote:

In message , Steve Firth
writes
geoff wrote:

Yes, but where's the cheapest car hire place in Naples?

****nose, only a loony would go to Napoli.

Wedding, no choice

I have my violin case

You'll need more than that. A suit of armour is more useful.

Oh hang on, I've seen the ads in the local paper for car hire in Napoli.
You err probably wouldn't want the *cheapest* car hire place. IIRC you
don't even need a driving licence.

Yup.

Malbes Service Station, Cagliari. Eur 23 per day for a Ligier.

5 up ?

You didn't say that first time around, you just asked for cheap.

You're looking at around EUR 50 per day minimum. I'd recommend booking
in advance and using Avis. If you have a Tesco Clubcard they'll give you
points, their rates are usually lower than the local companies and the
cars are much better. They also seem to give free upgrades at the drop
of a hat.

They're showing a Focus at £320 a week, a Nissan Note at £280 from the
airport.

If you want to try cheaper, www.rent.it are showing £215 a week for a
Picasso.

There are no supercool cheap local deals IMO.

You can save quite a bit on the insurance by taking out an
Insurance4carhire policy to cover the excess. Much cheaper than the hire
company insurance.

Invisible Man wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Gordon Henderson" wrote in message
...

Rubbish. Gas is the way forward. There is no difference whatsoever
between
the way a gas BBQ cooks and the way a charcoal BBQ cooks - apart
from the 30
min wait.

Ahhhh... But Holy Wars have been fought over less...

I'm in the charcoal camp myself - it's all part of the ritual,
especially
if it's a social gathering. Bit like comparing some mid-europeans to
some
more north... The midlanders would chat, sip wine, slowly get together
and cook a bit, shrug a bit, eat a bit, chat, etc.... The northerners:
Click, Whoosh, Now Ve Vill Eat. ... :-)

As for the way they cook - yes, heat applied to meat/veg cooks it
more or
less the same... As for the flavour - well, there's no comparison
there!!!


In a traditional BBQ the flavour comes from the vaporising fat
dripping on the coals and the smoke from the wood chips.
If you like that taste then gas is no good.

If you like the flavour from a marinade or spray on smoke then gas is
easier.
Gordon

Our gas barbie has heated metal sheets the fat drops on to. Result is
pretty much the same as a charcoal barbie.
The metal plates also keep the rain off the burners so it is possible to
continue cooking through showers - whilst the guests all shelter under
gazebos.

The "metal plates" you describe are actually "heat tents".