Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so can't
be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity to
call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct something out
of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier to fix the
surround directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there any reason why
this isn't a good idea?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so
can't be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity
to call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct
something out of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier
to fix the surround directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there
any reason why this isn't a good idea?

Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to fix
straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they invariably had
(and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and the aluminium. How old
is the door which you have acquired?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so
can't be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity
to call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct
something out of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier
to fix the surround directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there
any reason why this isn't a good idea?

Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to fix
straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they invariably had
(and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and the aluminium. How old
is the door which you have acquired?

No idea of the age, except that the glazed panels are 30mm, suggesting
it's fairly recent. It's also in pretty good condition generally.



Not a great picture but it's chucking it down out there

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so
can't be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity
to call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct
something out of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be
easier to fix the surround directly to the masonry top and bottom.
Is there any reason why this isn't a good idea?

Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to
fix straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they
invariably had (and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and
the aluminium. How old is the door which you have acquired?

No idea of the age, except that the glazed panels are 30mm, suggesting
it's fairly recent. It's also in pretty good condition generally.



Not a great picture but it's chucking it down out there


Well it's thermal break - so that's a good start.

However, the frame bit looks like it's basically a C section, which is flat
on the back of the bit shown. Is that correct? If so, it's meant to go into
a hardwood frame. If it was meant to go straight to brickwork it would have
an H section, with the 'legs' contacting the bricks.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:

Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so
can't be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity
to call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct
something out of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be
easier to fix the surround directly to the masonry top and bottom.
Is there any reason why this isn't a good idea?
Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to
fix straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they
invariably had (and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and
the aluminium. How old is the door which you have acquired?
No idea of the age, except that the glazed panels are 30mm, suggesting
it's fairly recent. It's also in pretty good condition generally.


Not a great picture but it's chucking it down out there


Well it's thermal break - so that's a good start.


However, the frame bit looks like it's basically a C section, which is flat
on the back of the bit shown. Is that correct? If so, it's meant to go into
a hardwood frame. If it was meant to go straight to brickwork it would have
an H section, with the 'legs' contacting the bricks.

Yes, it's a c section, but I wonder what the function of the hardwood
frame would be. H section would obviously be more rigid, but I'm sure I
could compensate with enough foam and fixings.
Then again I might just set the frame in a wooden surround with a step.
At least that way I could do most of the work in advance of ripping the
old one out, but then I'll have exterior wood to maintain

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Stuart Noble wrote:


Yes, it's a c section, but I wonder what the function of the hardwood
frame would be.

The wood - or the legs of an H-section frame - provide bending stiffness.
With a wooden frame, the ally will be flat against the wood, and if the
brickwork is irregular, there will be uneven gaps between the wood and the
brick - which you fill with sealant. If you try to screw the ally straight
to the bricks, chances are that it will bend.

Some of my ally windows have more like an F section, with one leg which goes
*almost* to the brickwork - with the wooden frame going all the way, and
with the otherwise exposed bit of wood being covered by sealant - so they're
zero maintenance.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Jun 9, 7:28*pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:


Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to fix
straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they invariably had
(and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and the aluminium. How old
is the door which you have acquired?

Wickes still sell aluminium doors with thin frames that need a wooden
frame.

MBQ

Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jun 9, 7:28 pm, "Roger Mills" wrote:

Most recent aluminium doors come with frames which are designed to fix
straight to brickwork - but previously (20 years ago?) they invariably had
(and needed) hardwood frames between the bricks and the aluminium. How old
is the door which you have acquired?

Wickes still sell aluminium doors with thin frames that need a wooden
frame.

MBQ

The guy that came to quote reckons it needs hardwood, but only to fill
the gaps at the sides i.e. not a frame as such. £150 plus materials.
Worth that just to avoid the d-i-y scenario whereby it's supper time and
we still don't have a working back door.

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:49 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:
Worth that just to avoid the d-i-y scenario whereby it's supper time and
we still don't have a working back door.

:-) I replaced our front door a few weeks ago, which was quite a hassle as
our house wasn't built when they had any particular standards - so all
modern doors are a bit higher than the opening (width-wise it was OK,
thankfully).

All went well, but making an opening taller whilst keeping things
structurally sound and not destroying half the walls seems to be something
of an art.

I've still got to paint the darn thing and seal around the frame and add
some trim to the interior...

I've seen people try to cut doors and frames down to size before, and it
seems to be one of those things that Never Ends Well.

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:53:49 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:
Worth that just to avoid the d-i-y scenario whereby it's supper time and
we still don't have a working back door.

:-) I replaced our front door a few weeks ago, which was quite a hassle as
our house wasn't built when they had any particular standards - so all
modern doors are a bit higher than the opening (width-wise it was OK,
thankfully).

Was this what they call a pre hung door with its own frame etc?


All went well, but making an opening taller whilst keeping things
structurally sound and not destroying half the walls seems to be something
of an art.

The art of staying below the lintel :-)
Height is my problem too. By knocking the plaster off I can see what I
assume is the bottom edge of a wooden lintel above the existing frame,
so in theory the top of the aly could be fixed to the underside of that,
leaving me 30mm to play with at the bottom. I gather this should be a
sill of some kind so that the drainage slots in the frame empty on to a
sloping surface.
With the sides it seems you don't know what wooden framing you need
until you've knocked the old one out. Maybe I'll take out a small cross
section to get the profile of the brickwork.
I'm beginning to see the advantage of upvc doors where framing isn't an
issue.


I've still got to paint the darn thing and seal around the frame and add
some trim to the interior...

I've seen people try to cut doors and frames down to size before, and it
seems to be one of those things that Never Ends Well.

cheers

Jules

Stuart Noble coughed up some electrons that declared:

Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I
might use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so can't
be that old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity to
call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct something out
of wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier to fix the
surround directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there any reason why
this isn't a good idea?

I have removed an ali door that is at leats 20 years old that was fixed
directly to brick. The frame is strong but it's not very thick and clearly
relied on being fixed at regular intervals.

If you use frame packers so doing the screws up tight doesn;t warp the
frame, but allows you to get a good hold with the screws, I see no problems
at all. Run a bit of mortar or PU foam around depending on gap size - that
will firm it up nicely, as I found with my new PVC windows (good fit ith 6
frame screwed, unmovable after foaming in).

Cheers

Tim

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
om...
Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I might
use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so can't be that
old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity to
call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct something out of
wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier to fix the surround
directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there any reason why this isn't
a good idea?

If this is in a kitchen, be prepared for pools of water under it when the
cold weather hits.
We are about to replace an aly door with composite - condensation from ours
is a real issue, although ours is probably 30 years old with knackered seals
etc.

Phil

TheScullster wrote:
"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
om...
Have just acquired an Everest white aluminium door which I thought I might
use to replace my ageing wooden back door. 30mm glazing, so can't be that
old.
It comes with an aly surround, but this doesn't have enough rigidity to
call it a frame. I imagine I'm going to have to construct something out of
wood to take it, but in many ways it would be easier to fix the surround
directly to the masonry top and bottom. Is there any reason why this isn't
a good idea?

If this is in a kitchen, be prepared for pools of water under it when the
cold weather hits.
We are about to replace an aly door with composite - condensation from ours
is a real issue, although ours is probably 30 years old with knackered seals
etc.

Phil


More recent aly doors have thermal breaks. Ie. something non-conductive
between the 2 sides of the door.