Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

Fred wrote:
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

There's loads of PCB design packages out there. Generally they are
priced on the basis of how many pins/nets they are authorised for, so if
you are only making small PCB's, you can get a fully-featured
professional package for a low price (or even free).

You can make your own single-sided PCB's if you've got basic kit. Double
sided is tricky to do at home.

You can send off for PCB's to be made or visit your local PCB
manufacturer, bearing in mind that some PCB makers focus on the budget
end of the market and some are more high-end/high-volume, so will not be
cost effective for small quantities.

PCB Softwa

http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/i...le=TARGET_3001!

http://www.seetrax.com/

http://www.numberone.com/

there are loads more...

PCBs:

http://www.pcb-pool.com

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

See here for excellent advice: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

Jb

Fred wrote:
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA
Haven't used it myself, but how about Kicad?

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/

below are some tutorials

http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/kicad

Have a look at PCB Pool for board manufacturing. I think they even have
free to use design software.

http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppuk/index.html

Hope that helps

In article ,
Fred wrote:
Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Not easier than using Veroboard. But likely 'nicer'.

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

I make my own from start to finish - but not usually if only one required.
Still use Vero for that.

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

I've looked at quite a few and most ain't easy to use. I still make mine
using !Draw on this old machine - I have my own library of the common
layouts like say an op amp. But then I quite enjoy working out a layout by
'hand' as it's a hobby rather than a profession.

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Jb wrote:
See here for excellent advice: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

IMHO a bit over the top for amateur use.

I've had excellent results printing to transparency using an ink jet
printer. But then I don't do SM stuff at home.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Fred wrote:
Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Not easier than using Veroboard. But likely 'nicer'.

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

I make my own from start to finish - but not usually if only one required.
Still use Vero for that.

I mostly use veroboard, usually the type where each strip is cut
between every 3rd hole, as I'm almost always using some DIL chips.

_Very_ occasionally, I'll etch a board, but to give some idea just
how occasionally, I'm still using the last bottle of ferric chloride
I bought from a local chemist shop ~30 years ago! (I doubt you can
still do that.)

If you want some paper to design your layout on this board, send the
following piece of postscript I knocked up to a postscript printer
or print it via ghostscript to some other type of printer (cut the
file so it starts with the %!PS-Adobe-2.0 line and ends with the
%%EOF line)...

%!PS-Adobe-2.0
%%Creator: Andrew Gabriel
%%CreationDate: 30th March 1994
%%DocumentData: Clean7bit
%%DocumentFonts:
%%LanguageLevel: 1
%%Orientation: Portrait
%%Pages: 1
%%EndComments

72 10 div dup scale % set units to 1/10ths inch

%%BeginProlog

% Constants

/radius 0.1 def % radius of hole
/track 0.3 def

%................................................. ..............................

/drawhole
{
/y exch def
/x exch def
x radius add y moveto
newpath x y radius 0 360 arc closepath

y 3 mod 0 eq {
x track sub y 0.5 sub moveto
x track sub y 0.5 add lineto
x track add y 0.5 sub moveto
x track add y 0.5 add lineto
} { y 3 mod 1 eq {
x track sub y 0.5 sub moveto
x track sub y track add lineto
track 2 mul 0 rlineto
0 track 0.5 add neg rlineto
} {
x track sub y 0.5 add moveto
x track sub y track sub lineto
track 2 mul 0 rlineto
0 track 0.5 add rlineto
} ifelse
} ifelse

0.01 setlinewidth
stroke
} def

%................................................. ..............................

%%EndProlog
%%Page: 1 1

10 10 translate

1 1 63 {
/y exch def
1 1 39 {
y drawhole
} for
} for

showpage % print sheet

%%EOF

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On May 28, 12:29*pm, Fred wrote:
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

Cadsoft Eagle http://www.cadsoft.de/ is free for small double sided
boards for non-commercial use. It's very good and easy to use.

Having them made by someone else can be expensive for small quantities
due to the tooling charges but look at Toptec http://www.top-tec-pcb.com/
for on-line quotes and they will take the Eagle file direct, with no
need to mess about with Gerber files.

You can make your own UV exposure unit with tubes and control gear
from RS, etc. I've successfully fabricated SMD boards down to .65mm
lead pitch at home this way.

You can even make your own bubble etch tank to speed up the etching.
Use google for that.

MBQ

Hi Andrew

Thanks for the .ps file - very handy. I also use the three-way
prototyping boards and this is a useful design aid.

Another vote here for Cadsoft Eagle, BTW. It runs on Linux as well!

My only beef is the limits on their 'Eagle Standard' product. It can
use up to 4 layers on a single-sized Eurocard board (100mm x 160mm).
I'd rather have the limit two layers on a larger board. But that is
because I'm used to home etching and up to two layers ... maybe I
should think about using one of these PCB pools.

Regards
Jon N

On Thu, 28 May 2009 12:29:47 +0100, Fred wrote:

Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

SteveW

On Thu, 28 May 2009 12:29:47 +0100, Fred wrote:

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

I've done my own simple enough.

What software is best to design PCBs?

Software! for a small one off? Pencil and paper to draft the layout then
use etch resistant transfers direct onto clean board. Or even the Dalo
etch restsiant marker and draw you design, though TBH the transfers are
better unless you ensure that the marker pen line is absolutely solid
filled with ink.

The UV based photographic system is a faff for a one off. Much better if
you are making more than a couple of boards to the same layout.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If you want some paper to design your layout on this board, send the
following piece of postscript I knocked up to a postscript printer

Ah, now that takes me back... knocking out diagrams etc by hand crafting
postscript ;-)

For them without a PS rendering capability, here is a Distilled PDF
version (not sure about the clipping mind):

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/downloads/track.pdf


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

I've seen this advertised but not used it. Quite expensive. Any gotchas
with it apart from price?

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If you want some paper to design your layout on this board, send the
following piece of postscript I knocked up to a postscript printer

Ah, now that takes me back... knocking out diagrams etc by hand crafting
postscript ;-)

I've always thought it to be a much underrated printing language.
In the past, I've done loads of interesting things with it.
I think one of the best was printing CD labels, where I have
very stange shaped text bounding boxes to allow for the circular
edge of the CD and the centre hole, with variable length text
depending on the CD contents. The postscript program inside the
printer works out how to fit the text in, do all the line
wrapping, etc, and what the largest point size it can use is.
No faffing around with WYSIWYG word processors trying to get
the text in and point size chosen by trial and error, which is
totally unsuitable for a production line.

For them without a PS rendering capability, here is a Distilled PDF
version (not sure about the clipping mind):

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/downloads/track.pdf

Looks fine with acrobat reader. Looked very faint with evince,
but prints properly. There is no clipping issue -- the top and
bottom edges are cut in a funny place because that's how I
needed it done for one project, to make components on the board
line up with the case cutouts. You can change the 63 and 39 in
the file to print a different number of columns and rows.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thu, 28 May 2009 11:29:47 UTC, Fred
wrote:

Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

This is an interesting little book, and comes with the basic version of
Eagle. Explains about layers (inc. silkscreen and solder mask). Talks
about different PCB fabrication techniques, including amateur ones.

I've been looking at: http://pcb.gpleda.org

which is highly functional and free. Limited Windows support, but I use
FreeBSD...guess a UNIX wannabe like Linux would be OK.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Thu, 28 May 2009 17:24:33 UTC, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Thu, 28 May 2009 11:29:47 UTC, Fred
wrote:

Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

(reposted with the URL!!!)


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/..._ya_oh_product

This is an interesting little book, and comes with the basic version of
Eagle. Explains about layers (inc. silkscreen and solder mask). Talks
about different PCB fabrication techniques, including amateur ones.

I've been looking at: http://pcb.gpleda.org

which is highly functional and free. Limited Windows support, but I use
FreeBSD...guess a UNIX wannabe like Linux would be OK.



--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Dave Liquorice coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Thu, 28 May 2009 12:29:47 +0100, Fred wrote:

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

I've done my own simple enough.

What software is best to design PCBs?

Software! for a small one off? Pencil and paper to draft the layout then
use etch resistant transfers direct onto clean board. Or even the Dalo
etch restsiant marker and draw you design, though TBH the transfers are
better unless you ensure that the marker pen line is absolutely solid
filled with ink.

Eagle PCB is free (for limited layers and boad sizes), runs on lots of
platforms and is quite capable:

http://www.cadsoftusa.com/nonprofit.htm


The UV based photographic system is a faff for a one off. Much better if
you are making more than a couple of boards to the same layout.


Cheers

Tim

Dave Plowman (News) coughed up some electrons that declared:

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

I've seen this advertised but not used it. Quite expensive. Any gotchas
with it apart from price?


I used it once. It's fiddly and you need access to a decent laser.

But with care it can produce quite nice results with very little aggravation
and expense.

The two bits that might go wrong a laser printing is bad - but that takes
seconds to spot and do again; most of the fiddliness is in the iron on
stage. Just take your time, peek carefully and if it hasn't taken, replace
and keep ironing.

I had to have two goes the first time, but the end result was more or less
perfect.

Cheers

Tim

Fred coughed up some electrons that declared:

Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)


I don't think anyone's mentioned http://www.pcb-pool.com/

They are almost de-facto for one off PCB production, if you want to send
away and have a perfect board in a week. For a hobby board, it's expensive
(30 quid range give or take) but for that you can have a dogs
******** "proper" multlayer board with vias, mask, silkscreen and
everything. Nice if you were making something you wanted to be proud of for
a long time perhaps, or something especially complicated and fiddly.

For the actual DIY making of PCBs, Iron n peel's been mentioned.

I've heard of some people who will take the output from Eagle (or whatever)
as PS or PDF to a local print shop and have it produced as film, then do
the normal UV + etch at home. Probably the most reliable and cost effective
option, once you get set up with a suitable print shop.

I've seen web articles about people who claim to have used inkjets to make a
UV mask directly, either onto inkjet film (OHP sheets) or very heavy guage
tracing paper - they claim the trick is to use cyan (for it's built in UV
blockers) and yellow (good UV absoption) together (ie print phot quality in
a particulare shade of green). Then follow the UV process.
You'd need to google for this ("inkjet PCB" or something like that). Never
tried it, but it would barely be much of a waste of time and materials to
give it a shot.

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

eagle PCB for the software - costs nothing for non commercial use. Pretty
professional for light to medium complexity work IMO (I assume you don't
want to put down 6 million pin BGAs?!!!. Easy to make new components
(library parts) and lots of 3rd party libs too.

HTH

Tim

On Thu, 28 May 2009 16:58:20 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

I've seen this advertised but not used it. Quite expensive. Any gotchas
with it apart from price?

The ironing stage is the fiddly bit, but for the odd board where it's not
worth investing in a UV box and photoresist spray or boards, it's fine.
Cost wise, I've certainly only used it for a few one offs that were
slightly wider than my rather small UV box.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote:
On Thu, 28 May 2009 12:29:47 +0100, Fred wrote:

Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

Why doesn't the ink get stripped off by the laser printer?

Dave

Dave coughed up some electrons that declared:

Steve Walker wrote:

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

Why doesn't the ink get stripped off by the laser printer?

Dave

It doesn't work like that.

The blue sheet is almost waxy, but just good enough to receive the toner and
survive the fusion bar. There's no ink besides the toner.

So the blue sheet comes out with an image of the tracks just adhering to it.

When pressed to a copper board with a hot iron, the toner melts and finds it
get's on better with the copper so it sticks to that instead and releases
from the blue sheet.

The toner, being basically plastic gunk resists the etchant well and thus a
PCB is born.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
Dave coughed up some electrons that declared:

Steve Walker wrote:

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.
Why doesn't the ink get stripped off by the laser printer?

Dave

It doesn't work like that.

The blue sheet is almost waxy, but just good enough to receive the toner and
survive the fusion bar. There's no ink besides the toner.

I shouldn't have used the word ink, I meant toner, but thanks for that.

So the blue sheet comes out with an image of the tracks just adhering to it.

When pressed to a copper board with a hot iron, the toner melts and finds it
get's on better with the copper so it sticks to that instead and releases
from the blue sheet.

The toner, being basically plastic gunk resists the etchant well and thus a
PCB is born.

I wonder how those iron on tee shirt paper sheets would work with this.

Dave

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

This brings back memories. 45 years back I needed to make 12 pcbs
(electronic organ). Made 12 copies of the layout on a diazo?/ammonia copier,
covered the copper boards with masking tape, attached the diazo and cut
around it and through the masking tape with craft knife, peeled out the
masking tape tracks and sprayed with car paint, removed the rest of the tape
and etched. Bloody nightmare Still working.
Last pcb, I used a photoplotter, a tad better.

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Dave coughed up some electrons that declared:

Steve Walker wrote:

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

Why doesn't the ink get stripped off by the laser printer?

Dave

It doesn't work like that.

The blue sheet is almost waxy, but just good enough to receive the toner
and
survive the fusion bar. There's no ink besides the toner.

So the blue sheet comes out with an image of the tracks just adhering to
it.

When pressed to a copper board with a hot iron, the toner melts and finds
it
get's on better with the copper so it sticks to that instead and releases
from the blue sheet.

The toner, being basically plastic gunk resists the etchant well and thus
a
PCB is born.

Anyone tried modifying a laser so the PCB runs through the transfer roller
to pickup the plastic toner and then cook it in an oven?

In message , "dennis@home"
writes
Anyone tried modifying a laser so the PCB runs through the transfer
roller to pickup the plastic toner and then cook it in an oven?
Very much doubt it would work with bare PCB material because the laser
printer relies on the toner/media being able to hold an electric charge
so copper clad board would conduct/dissipate the charge.

Using an old fuser assembly from a laser printer sounds like an ideal
way of transferring press n peel layouts though, I might have a go at
this if I can find a fuser with a solid roller instead of the flimsy
film type that seems to be widely used these days.
--
Clint Sharp

On May 29, 1:37*pm, Clint Sharp wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writesAnyone tried modifying a laser so the PCB runs through the transfer
roller to pickup the plastic toner and then cook it in an oven?

Very much doubt it would work with bare PCB material because the laser
printer relies on the toner/media being able to hold an electric charge
so copper clad board would conduct/dissipate the charge.

Using an old fuser assembly from a laser printer sounds like an ideal
way of transferring press n peel layouts though, I might have a go at
this if I can find a fuser with a solid roller instead of the flimsy
film type that seems to be widely used these days.

Laminating machine, if you can find one that will take the thickness
of PCB material. There is a recommendation for a particular model
(probably long obsolete now) out there somewhere.

MBQ

Fred wrote:
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.

TIA

If you dont have all the facilities, its usually quicker to use an
alternative to an etched pcb, as long as the projects not too big.
Veroboard, or copper pads only board with added wires work for many
circuits.

Pad and wires boards can simulate a multilayer pcb btw, you just put
your first layer of wires in place, using very fine gauge, then a
layer of paper, then the next set of wire tracks. And handle gently.
Once theyre in, place the components. Obviously bending the wire ends
over where everything goes thru is essential.

For very small circuits one can go with something like ugly bug
construction. I even tried a cardboard pcb once - I needed to make a
tool there and then - ok with very light components, but anything as
bulky as a 1000uf lytic is a no-no on such a weak board.


NT

In message
, Man
at B&Q writes
Using an old fuser assembly from a laser printer sounds like an ideal
way of transferring press n peel layouts though, I might have a go at
this if I can find a fuser with a solid roller instead of the flimsy
film type that seems to be widely used these days.

Laminating machine, if you can find one that will take the thickness
of PCB material. There is a recommendation for a particular model
(probably long obsolete now) out there somewhere.

MBQ

Good idea.. But I'd have to buy one. Fuser assemblies I can get hold of
much more easily and they're almost 100% guaranteed to be able to melt
the toner (with certain exceptions) so I may have try an experiment with
the next one I lay my hands on.
--
Clint Sharp

dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:



"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Dave coughed up some electrons that declared:

Steve Walker wrote:

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.

Why doesn't the ink get stripped off by the laser printer?

Dave

It doesn't work like that.

The blue sheet is almost waxy, but just good enough to receive the toner
and
survive the fusion bar. There's no ink besides the toner.

So the blue sheet comes out with an image of the tracks just adhering to
it.

When pressed to a copper board with a hot iron, the toner melts and finds
it
get's on better with the copper so it sticks to that instead and releases
from the blue sheet.

The toner, being basically plastic gunk resists the etchant well and thus
a
PCB is born.

Anyone tried modifying a laser so the PCB runs through the transfer roller
to pickup the plastic toner and then cook it in an oven?

Not sure, but someone has definately tried making little PCBs in the CD tray
in an inkjet, possibly with modified ink - you'd have to google for it.
Either that, or they were printing the UV mask directly onto photo
sensitive board. It was a while ago and I mostly ignored the article
because I don't have a CD tray.

coughed up some electrons that declared:


Pad and wires boards can simulate a multilayer pcb btw, you just put
your first layer of wires in place, using very fine gauge, then a
layer of paper, then the next set of wire tracks. And handle gently.
Once theyre in, place the components. Obviously bending the wire ends
over where everything goes thru is essential.

For very small circuits one can go with something like ugly bug
construction. I even tried a cardboard pcb once - I needed to make a
tool there and then - ok with very light components, but anything as
bulky as a 1000uf lytic is a no-no on such a weak board.


NT

If you can stretch to a decent gun, wire-wrap is good. Very solid, quick and
the results can be neat - or a total ratsnest.

In message , Clint Sharp
writes
In message
,
Man at B&Q writes
Using an old fuser assembly from a laser printer sounds like an ideal
way of transferring press n peel layouts though, I might have a go at
this if I can find a fuser with a solid roller instead of the flimsy
film type that seems to be widely used these days.

Laminating machine, if you can find one that will take the thickness
of PCB material. There is a recommendation for a particular model
(probably long obsolete now) out there somewhere.

MBQ

Good idea.. But I'd have to buy one. Fuser assemblies I can get hold of
much more easily and they're almost 100% guaranteed to be able to melt
the toner (with certain exceptions) so I may have try an experiment
with the next one I lay my hands on.


Can you get hold of an Epson C1000 fuser assy ?


--
geoff

Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:


Pad and wires boards can simulate a multilayer pcb btw, you just put
your first layer of wires in place, using very fine gauge, then a
layer of paper, then the next set of wire tracks. And handle gently.
Once theyre in, place the components. Obviously bending the wire ends
over where everything goes thru is essential.

For very small circuits one can go with something like ugly bug
construction. I even tried a cardboard pcb once - I needed to make a
tool there and then - ok with very light components, but anything as
bulky as a 1000uf lytic is a no-no on such a weak board.


NT

If you can stretch to a decent gun, wire-wrap is good. Very solid, quick and
the results can be neat - or a total ratsnest.

I never really got into wire wrap. Does it work ok on round component
legs, or does it need the thick square legs I've always seen it on?


NT

In message , Fred
wrote
Hello,

Is there a group better suited to electronic queries, preferably a UK
based one?

I haven't dabbled with building my own circuits for a few years. I
used to use strip board from Maplins. I'm wondering about having
another go, but this time I wondered whether PCBs would be easier?

Do you make your own PCBs or send the diagram to someone else to etch
it for you? (If so, to whom?)

What software is best to design PCBs? Since I will only be doing it
occasionally as a hobby I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds if
possible.


Download some free software, use a laser printer and a (clothes) iron to
transfer the design to a copper clad board before etching.
See
http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

For some free basic software try
http://www.expresspcb.com/

Etching chemicals
http://cpc.farnell.com/_/600-011/fer...50g/dp/PC00031
--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In message , Steve Walker
wrote

For very occasional use, you can buy a laser printable, iron-on sheet
called Press-n-Peel. Simply print your pcb layout in reverse, iron onto
your board, peel off and etch. It's fine for simple one offs.


So is the free paper that the junk mail merchants put through your
letter box
http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

coughed up some electrons that declared:


I never really got into wire wrap. Does it work ok on round component
legs, or does it need the thick square legs I've always seen it on?


NT

The square legs are critical to it working - the wire bites into the corners
forming a gas tight seal - so good wire wrap can last forever, more of
less.

The usual way is to use special wire wrap chip sockets, and solder
everything else to special pins, after inserting said pin.

HTH

Tim

Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:

I never really got into wire wrap. Does it work ok on round component
legs, or does it need the thick square legs I've always seen it on?


NT

The square legs are critical to it working - the wire bites into the corners
forming a gas tight seal - so good wire wrap can last forever, more of
less.

thats what I thought

The usual way is to use special wire wrap chip sockets, and solder
everything else to special pins, after inserting said pin.

but then surely you've lost any advantage of wire wrap. And it has a
pretty big downside, the task of following what 'tracks' go where is
almost hopeless. Plus its so easy to miss a connection during
construction. Horrid system!


HTH

Tim

coughed up some electrons that declared:


but then surely you've lost any advantage of wire wrap. And it has a
pretty big downside, the task of following what 'tracks' go where is
almost hopeless. Plus its so easy to miss a connection during
construction. Horrid system!

That's true enough. But you can achieve very high connection densities in a
fairly robust way. Densities that would be very difficult on veroboard or
it's variants (and would take longer to solder all the wires as well as all
the components).

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
Tim S wrote:
but then surely you've lost any advantage of wire wrap. And it has a
pretty big downside, the task of following what 'tracks' go where is
almost hopeless. Plus its so easy to miss a connection during
construction. Horrid system!

That's true enough. But you can achieve very high connection densities
in a fairly robust way. Densities that would be very difficult on
veroboard or it's variants (and would take longer to solder all the
wires as well as all the components).

My foray into wire wrapping some years ago said not.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , geoff
writes

Can you get hold of an Epson C1000 fuser assy ?


Do you know, I've don't think I've ever worked on an Epson laser that I
can remember, mainly Lexmark/IBM and HP machines, the odd Oki one here
and there... Are you having a problem finding one or is it just that
they're expensive?
--
Clint Sharp