Just thought I would report back on the use of the three network USB
dongle when I finally got the Linux laptop to an area where there was
internet broadband mobile coverage.

Basically it did work. But for some reason the DNS did not. Three
offered the right DNS servers, but despite use of the 'usepeerdens' in
what I think were the right places, it refused to use them. Fortunately
I discovered it was running BIND anyway, and do just told it to use
localhost, whatever.

(Linux/debian lenny ppp etc etc)

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Can anyone explain why this is?

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Just thought I would report back on the use of the three network USB
dongle when I finally got the Linux laptop to an area where there was
internet broadband mobile coverage.

Basically it did work. But for some reason the DNS did not. Three
offered the right DNS servers, but despite use of the 'usepeerdens' in
what I think were the right places, it refused to use them. Fortunately
I discovered it was running BIND anyway, and do just told it to use
localhost, whatever.

(Linux/debian lenny ppp etc etc)

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Can anyone explain why this is?

Kids home from school;?...
--
Tony Sayer

Brian Morrison wrote:
On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

3G W-CDMA suffers from a phenomenon called "cell breathing". This
occurs because unlike GSM where each logical link has its own timeslot,
in 3G all the signals overlay each other on a single frequency but the
different spreading codes allocated to each separate them in a similar
way. The link power is accurately controlled so that all the signals
arriving at the base station are at the same level (within 0.2dB I
think) to ensure that no one signal can overload the analogue to digital
converters in the receiver.

If there are many signals, the effective sensitivity of the receiver
reduces a little; think of it as the wanted-to-interferer power ratio
decreasing, the bit error rate goes up a bit. So, if you are at a fair
distance from the node, you get better performance when there are few
other users but as the user numbers increase things get worse. Taken to
its logical conclusion, it may well cause you to be unable to connect
at all if you are at just beyond the minimum cell radius for the path
loss between you and the node.

Take the above with a small pinch of salt, you may be seeing a different
effect, but the one I have described definitely exists.

Ah..so as people start turning up, with phones, that's likely to bugger
the connection.The reduced S/N in the presence of many spread spectrums
devices makes PERFECT sense, thanks.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Take the above with a small pinch of salt, you may be seeing a different
effect, but the one I have described definitely exists.

Ah..so as people start turning up, with phones, that's likely to bugger
the connection.The reduced S/N in the presence of many spread spectrums
devices makes PERFECT sense, thanks.

Also, if you are right at the edge of the cell coverage, foliage and
atmospherics play a part in killing (or helping) the signal.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Take the above with a small pinch of salt, you may be seeing a different
effect, but the one I have described definitely exists.

Ah..so as people start turning up, with phones, that's likely to bugger
the connection.The reduced S/N in the presence of many spread spectrums
devices makes PERFECT sense, thanks.

Also, if you are right at the edge of the cell coverage, foliage and
atmospherics play a part in killing (or helping) the signal.

Not much foliage in an airfield..

In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Take the above with a small pinch of salt, you may be seeing a different
effect, but the one I have described definitely exists.

Ah..so as people start turning up, with phones, that's likely to bugger
the connection.The reduced S/N in the presence of many spread spectrums
devices makes PERFECT sense, thanks.

Also, if you are right at the edge of the cell coverage, foliage and
atmospherics play a part in killing (or helping) the signal.

Yes we're some 900 metres from a 3 and Vodafone main site. 3 is almost
useless indoors and not to good outdoors and Voodo fone is marginal
inside and OK outside but rarely more then a bar of level on the meter.

And all that gets worse in summer;(...
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 02 May 2009 13:50:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Not much foliage in an airfield..

You've not been to Ed's then - 80 foot hedge an 120 foot trees...

--
Geo

In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus
On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

3G W-CDMA suffers from a phenomenon called "cell breathing". This
occurs because unlike GSM where each logical link has its own timeslot,
in 3G all the signals overlay each other on a single frequency but the
different spreading codes allocated to each separate them in a similar
way. The link power is accurately controlled so that all the signals
arriving at the base station are at the same level (within 0.2dB I
think) to ensure that no one signal can overload the analogue to digital
converters in the receiver.


Thats interesting how they see to it that it does that!..

If there are many signals, the effective sensitivity of the receiver
reduces a little; think of it as the wanted-to-interferer power ratio
decreasing, the bit error rate goes up a bit. So, if you are at a fair
distance from the node, you get better performance when there are few
other users but as the user numbers increase things get worse. Taken to
its logical conclusion, it may well cause you to be unable to connect
at all if you are at just beyond the minimum cell radius for the path
loss between you and the node.

Take the above with a small pinch of salt, you may be seeing a different
effect, but the one I have described definitely exists.

So why would this get worse as the day goes on when the cell traffic
reduces , well mobile voice does a bit tho the net is possibly likely to
go up...

And thats all with a pinch of snuff..
--
Tony Sayer

On 2 May, 14:55, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus



On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Might be worth coinsidering getting a USB extension cable and
hanging your important bits out the window - or otherwise
positioning them advantageously.

USB cables are limited in length.

I read recently of wireless routers that would also
take 3G USB. Could then stick that well away from the
computer and use 802.11 or ethernet or combination thereof
for the link to it.


http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
would work too I would imagine.

"bod43" wrote in message
...
On 2 May, 14:55, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus



On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about
a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked
like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Might be worth coinsidering getting a USB extension cable and
hanging your important bits out the window - or otherwise
positioning them advantageously.

Can't you get arrested for that?
;-)

George

On Sat, 2 May 2009 10:27:59 -0700 (PDT), bod43 wrote:

I read recently of wireless routers that would also
take 3G USB. Could then stick that well away from the
computer and use 802.11 or ethernet or combination thereof
for the link to it.

3 do one for the usb 3G dongles.

http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/?router=1

A friend had a problem with the signal at times and he bought a usb
wi-fi dongle for his PC and put the router+3G dongle upstairs on the
top of his wardrobe and is very happy with it.


--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail ngpsm4 (at) infohitsystems (dot) ltd (dot) uk

bod43 wrote:
On 2 May, 14:55, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus



On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.
Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!
Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Might be worth coinsidering getting a USB extension cable and
hanging your important bits out the window - or otherwise
positioning them advantageously.

USB cables are limited in length.

I read recently of wireless routers that would also
take 3G USB. Could then stick that well away from the
computer and use 802.11 or ethernet or combination thereof
for the link to it.


http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
would work too I would imagine.


Well its to run a sales terminal in a tent in the middle of an airfield,
so getting altitude is not easy, except for the model planes. Nor is
mains power..running off a genny.

But all is OK, they are running off the copy database and not using the
'link back home' Too unreliable.

Especially with a load of 2.4Ghz R/C gear around splattering the wifi bands

On Sat, 02 May 2009 22:11:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Especially with a load of 2.4Ghz R/C gear around splattering the wifi
bands

Use 802.11a if you can get the kit - it works at 5GHz. Only band B is
strictly allowed for outdoor use.

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
bod43 wrote:
On 2 May, 14:55, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus



On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.
Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!
Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Might be worth coinsidering getting a USB extension cable and
hanging your important bits out the window - or otherwise
positioning them advantageously.

USB cables are limited in length.

I read recently of wireless routers that would also
take 3G USB. Could then stick that well away from the
computer and use 802.11 or ethernet or combination thereof
for the link to it.


http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
would work too I would imagine.


Well its to run a sales terminal in a tent in the middle of an airfield,

Just the one airfield?..

so getting altitude is not easy, except for the model planes. Nor is
mains power..running off a genny.

But all is OK, they are running off the copy database and not using the
'link back home' Too unreliable.

Especially with a load of 2.4Ghz R/C gear around splattering the wifi bands


Go 5.8 then)..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Sat, 02 May 2009 22:11:21 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Especially with a load of 2.4Ghz R/C gear around splattering the wifi
bands

Use 802.11a if you can get the kit - it works at 5GHz. Only band B is
strictly allowed for outdoor use.


Yes .. "outdoor nomadic" use they rather quaintly term it...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
bod43 wrote:
On 2 May, 14:55, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian
Morrison scribeth thus



On Sat, 02 May 2009 08:12:52 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The other odd thing was when I arrived on site to set it up, late
afternoon, we got good throughput..I didn't check, but it seemed about a
couple of hundred kbps.

Later on, at dusk, we seemed to be on 'crap dialup speeds' - looked like
a 9600 modem!

Finally, after dusk,we got no connection at all. A friend with a 3G
phone saw exactly the same degradation..

Might be worth coinsidering getting a USB extension cable and
hanging your important bits out the window - or otherwise
positioning them advantageously.

USB cables are limited in length.

If you can't get a single cable long enough, you can interpose a router
or three.

--
-eben P royalty.mine.nu:81

Q: What kind of modem did Jimi Hendrix use?
A: A purple Hayes.

On Sat, 02 May 2009 13:50:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Not much foliage in an airfield..

But you have a damp tent...

By tent do you mean a domestic camping tent or gazeebo or a marque?

Just poking the dongle through the hole in canvas of a marque at the
support pole will make quite a difference. Getting up there might not be
so easy but even in free air on the pole has high as possible may well
make a difference compared to stuck into the back of a laptop on a table
surrounded by bags of water (people).

--
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Hactar)
saying something like:

USB cables are limited in length.

If you can't get a single cable long enough, you can interpose a router
or three.

Or an active 5m cable and daisy-chain them up to 25m.
You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Hactar)
saying something like:

USB cables are limited in length.
If you can't get a single cable long enough, you can interpose a router
or three.

Or an active 5m cable and daisy-chain them up to 25m.
You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Why not go the whole hog and unreel a glass fibre cable extension cable
all the way back to Telehouse?
Sheesh. some people.

In article , Grimly
Curmudgeon scribeth thus
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember (Hactar)
saying something like:

USB cables are limited in length.

If you can't get a single cable long enough, you can interpose a router
or three.

Or an active 5m cable and daisy-chain them up to 25m.
You can also get


USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:20 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..


Lindy etc. do the expensive version (£50+).

EBay is your best bet for a cheap one (£15ish),
e.g. http://search.ebaycom/260388526777


Most of them are only USB 1.1 (12Mb/s) but for connecting to an ADSL
router/dongle that should be enough.

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:20 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..


Lindy etc. do the expensive version (£50+).

EBay is your best bet for a cheap one (£15ish),
e.g. http://search.ebaycom/260388526777


Most of them are only USB 1.1 (12Mb/s) but for connecting to an ADSL
router/dongle that should be enough.





Cheers.. If you know .. does that just extend the wire conductors as it
were, or does it do a USB to Ethernet conversion so you can put it
through a switch like an ethernet signal?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:15:58 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:20 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..


Lindy etc. do the expensive version (£50+).

EBay is your best bet for a cheap one (£15ish), e.g.
http://search.ebaycom/260388526777


Most of them are only USB 1.1 (12Mb/s) but for connecting to an ADSL
router/dongle that should be enough.





Cheers.. If you know .. does that just extend the wire conductors as it
were, or does it do a USB to Ethernet conversion so you can put it
through a switch like an ethernet signal?..

I'm pretty sure it just uses the twisted pairs as wires - wrapping it in
all the IP headers etc would be a lot more expensive. You'd need the
transmitter end to have a USB hub, CPU etc. all of it's own.

Also, USB is quite sensitive to latency - I've seen mention of treating
every 10m extension as 'a hub' and you're only allowed so many hubs,
hence the 50m or so limit over cat5.

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:15:58 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:20 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..


Lindy etc. do the expensive version (£50+).

EBay is your best bet for a cheap one (£15ish), e.g.
http://search.ebaycom/260388526777


Most of them are only USB 1.1 (12Mb/s) but for connecting to an ADSL
router/dongle that should be enough.





Cheers.. If you know .. does that just extend the wire conductors as it
were, or does it do a USB to Ethernet conversion so you can put it
through a switch like an ethernet signal?..

I'm pretty sure it just uses the twisted pairs as wires - wrapping it in
all the IP headers etc would be a lot more expensive. You'd need the
transmitter end to have a USB hub, CPU etc. all of it's own.

Also, USB is quite sensitive to latency - I've seen mention of treating
every 10m extension as 'a hub' and you're only allowed so many hubs,
hence the 50m or so limit over cat5.



Right.. Suppose for that price you couldn't expect it;!..
--
Tony Sayer

On Mon, 04 May 2009 15:33:18 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 13:15:58 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , PCPaul
scribeth thus
On Mon, 04 May 2009 11:47:20 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Do you know anyone who sells them?..


Lindy etc. do the expensive version (£50+).

EBay is your best bet for a cheap one (£15ish), e.g.
http://search.ebaycom/260388526777


Most of them are only USB 1.1 (12Mb/s) but for connecting to an ADSL
router/dongle that should be enough.





Cheers.. If you know .. does that just extend the wire conductors as it
were, or does it do a USB to Ethernet conversion so you can put it
through a switch like an ethernet signal?..

I'm pretty sure it just uses the twisted pairs as wires - wrapping it in
all the IP headers etc would be a lot more expensive. You'd need the
transmitter end to have a USB hub, CPU etc. all of it's own.

Also, USB is quite sensitive to latency - I've seen mention of treating
every 10m extension as 'a hub' and you're only allowed so many hubs,
hence the 50m or so limit over cat5.



Right.. Suppose for that price you couldn't expect it;!..

Well USB-ethernet print servers aren't much

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=165


Otherwise you can always buy a
http://www.three.co.uk/Mobile_Broadb...ei_D100_Router

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Or an active 5m cable and daisy-chain them up to 25m.
You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.

Why not go the whole hog and unreel a glass fibre cable extension cable
all the way back to Telehouse?
Sheesh. some people.

You miss the point.
You can extend the dongle up onto a pole, either on its own or in front
of a small parabolic dish.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

Or an active 5m cable and daisy-chain them up to 25m.
You can also get USB-Ethernet converters and go mad, but it's not
particularly cheap.
Why not go the whole hog and unreel a glass fibre cable extension cable
all the way back to Telehouse?
Sheesh. some people.

You miss the point.
You can extend the dongle up onto a pole, either on its own or in front
of a small parabolic dish.

Already did that. The pole, anyway

It was the mention of miles of cable and extra electronics needing power
that triggered the sarcasm.

On Mon, 04 May 2009 21:12:14 +0100, Owain wrote:

tony sayer wrote:
Cheers.. If you know .. does that just extend the wire conductors as it
were, or does it do a USB to Ethernet conversion so you can put it
through a switch like an ethernet signal?..

Most of them just extend the wires, but Lindy do a USB-over-IP
converter.


A few places do them, for a price. Also you can get 'USB device sharing
IP hubs' which are USB hubs with ethernet out which are intended to share
USB devices to multiple computers over properIP.

I've not used those - I assume you need a driver at the PC end to handle
the back-to-USB conversion and the allocation of devices to computers, so
I guess they will only work for some devices and some OSes.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
saying something like:

It was the mention of miles of cable and extra electronics needing power
that triggered the sarcasm.

Try it and see, you'd be surprised.
http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
This is wi-fi, but the principle holds good for 3G dongles too.