Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

ta
Jim

"jim" wrote in message
...
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

A horse will be able to step over four of five 18" high "fences" across the
path.
Bikes will have to be carried over each one.

dennis@home wrote:


"jim" wrote in message
...
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

A horse will be able to step over four of five 18" high "fences" across
the path.
Bikes will have to be carried over each one.

I've had this down our green lane - legal for motor vehicles. I removed
them all. I don't want to trip over them at dusk.,

I also found talking to the lads involved and reminding them where they
could, and couldn't play, served to actually keep them in bounds. After
admiring the bikes of course. No sense in antagonising what may be
simple thoughtlessness.

On 25 Apr, 21:27, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

A horse will be able to step over four of five 18" high "fences" across
the path.
Bikes will have to be carried over each one.

I've had this down our green lane - legal for motor vehicles. I removed
them all. I don't want to trip over them at dusk.,

I also found talking to the lads involved and reminding them where they
could, and couldn't play, served to actually keep them in bounds. After
admiring the bikes of course. No sense in antagonising what may be
simple thoughtlessness.

the softly approach has worked with the younger ones (say upto 14) -
possibly with a line about "the policemen I spoke to told me to take
pictures - so smile please"
The 20+ category are altogether a different (and sometimes menacing)
breed - I spoke to the first lot and explained twas a bridleway - and
was totally ignored!
(didn't fancy producing me camera and snapping em there and then - to
be honest ;))

jim

Local bikers on the footpaths where I walk the dogs get me into grumpy old
man mode, but to be fair the main issue is noise rather than confrontation
or physical danger, and it's not that frequent.

Do you think they bother anyone else, or just you?

How close is "next to your house"? Close enough to get photographic
evidence, either stills or via concealed CCTV? With evidence, you might be
able to get some response from the police, particularly if you can show that
these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.
Similarly the local Council rights of way person, especially if quads or
4x4s are tearing up the surface which have the responsibility to maintain.

If it's a "real" bridleway (still regularly used by horses) try the BHS
county access officer, even if you don't ride yourself. Which county?

On 25 Apr, 22:47, "newshound" wrote:
Local bikers on the footpaths where I walk the dogs get me into grumpy old
man mode, but to be fair the main issue is noise rather than confrontation
or physical danger, and it's not that frequent.

For me so far it's noise, mind you that goes with the speed they ride
without any consdiersation for other legitimate users - walkers (with
kids), horses cyclists etc.


Do you think they bother anyone else, or just you?

to get to and from the bridleway they have to pass other properties
and ride on public roads to a greater or lesser degree depending which
end they "start" at....

How close is "next to your house"? Close enough to get photographic
evidence, either stills or via concealed CCTV?

Yes within 30 feet!

With evidence,

what constitutes "evidence" in these circumstances - simple CCTV? or
are we talking CCTV with date & time stamps? I can probly get "simple"
cctv rigged up.....

you might be
able to get some response from the police, particularly if you can show that
these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.

Similarly the local Council rights of way person, especially if quads or
4x4s are tearing up the surface which have the responsibility to maintain.

Well it's a pretty rough surface except the bit we use for access
which I have single handedly patched upo ver the years (grrr all for
these tw*ts to go hell for leather along! grrr etc) - I've never known
the council do anything for maintenance.

If it's a "real" bridleway (still regularly used by horses) try the BHS
county access officer, even if you don't ride yourself. Which county?

It is indeed regulalrly used by horses - I'd say daily judging by the
excrement- county = west yorks

thanks to all so far
jim

"jim" wrote in message
...
On 25 Apr, 22:47, "newshound" wrote:
Local bikers on the footpaths where I walk the dogs get me into grumpy
old
man mode, but to be fair the main issue is noise rather than
confrontation
or physical danger, and it's not that frequent.

For me so far it's noise, mind you that goes with the speed they ride
without any consdiersation for other legitimate users - walkers (with
kids), horses cyclists etc.


Do you think they bother anyone else, or just you?

to get to and from the bridleway they have to pass other properties
and ride on public roads to a greater or lesser degree depending which
end they "start" at....

How close is "next to your house"? Close enough to get photographic
evidence, either stills or via concealed CCTV?

Yes within 30 feet!

With evidence,

what constitutes "evidence" in these circumstances - simple CCTV? or
are we talking CCTV with date & time stamps? I can probly get "simple"
cctv rigged up.....

you might be
able to get some response from the police, particularly if you can show
that
these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.

A bridleway is a public road

Similarly the local Council rights of way person, especially if quads or
4x4s are tearing up the surface which have the responsibility to
maintain.

Well it's a pretty rough surface except the bit we use for access
which I have single handedly patched upo ver the years (grrr all for
these tw*ts to go hell for leather along! grrr etc) - I've never known
the council do anything for maintenance.

If it's a "real" bridleway (still regularly used by horses) try the BHS
county access officer, even if you don't ride yourself. Which county?

It is indeed regulalrly used by horses - I'd say daily judging by the
excrement- county = west yorks

thanks to all so far
jim

"Donwill" popple @diddle .dot wrote in message
...

"jim" wrote in message
...
On 25 Apr, 22:47, "newshound" wrote:
Local bikers on the footpaths where I walk the dogs get me into grumpy
old
man mode, but to be fair the main issue is noise rather than
confrontation
or physical danger, and it's not that frequent.

For me so far it's noise, mind you that goes with the speed they ride
without any consdiersation for other legitimate users - walkers (with
kids), horses cyclists etc.


Do you think they bother anyone else, or just you?

to get to and from the bridleway they have to pass other properties
and ride on public roads to a greater or lesser degree depending which
end they "start" at....

How close is "next to your house"? Close enough to get photographic
evidence, either stills or via concealed CCTV?

Yes within 30 feet!

With evidence,

what constitutes "evidence" in these circumstances - simple CCTV? or
are we talking CCTV with date & time stamps? I can probly get "simple"
cctv rigged up.....

you might be
able to get some response from the police, particularly if you can show
that
these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.

A bridleway is a public road


Not true.

Depending on it's classification it remains restricted to certain types of
access. See news story was first published in Horse & Hound (18 May, '06)

A loophole that allowed 4x4s and trail bikes to use bridleways has been
closed by the government

The government has quashed a legal loophole that enabled recreational
motorists - with 4x4s, trail, quad and scrambler bikes - to use illegally
public rights of way, citing "higher rights" anchored to historical use by
horse-drawn vehicles.

New provisions under the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006
"extinguish all unrecorded public rights of way for motor vehicles" subject
to certain exceptions, including private access to land or property.

Also referenced at
http://www.naturenet.net/row/rowdefi...html#Bridleway

Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, R wrote:


A bridleway is a public road

Not true.

Depending on it's classification it remains restricted to certain types of
access. See news story was first published in Horse & Hound (18 May, '06)

A loophole that allowed 4x4s and trail bikes to use bridleways has been
closed by the government

Don't you mean "A legal right to use the contryside was cynically stolen"?

Can I come and set up a tent in your suburban back garden?


The government has quashed a legal loophole that enabled recreational
motorists - with 4x4s, trail, quad and scrambler bikes - to use illegally
public rights of way, citing "higher rights" anchored to historical use by
horse-drawn vehicles.

Don't you mean "The hooray-henrys shouted louder. Don't want those nasty
4x4 owners using our countryside"?


Its not the 4x4 owners, its the townies who come out for a day
off-roading' and haven't a clue what they are doing.

The hooray henry's have been using 4x4;'s for years to navigate the odd
green road. If necessary.

Donwill wrote:

these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.

A bridleway is a public road


No, its a public right of way, but its not necessarily legal for
motorised traffic, which is IIRC the definition of a road..

Essentially off tarmac,there are 'green roads' bridleways and footpaths.

Being legal for motorised vehicles, horses and pedestrians respectively.

But all motorised vehicles on a green road need licenses/insurance too..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Essentially off tarmac,there are 'green roads' bridleways and footpaths.


4 classes of road now.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/em2006/uksiem_20061177_en.pdf

Andy

you might be
able to get some response from the police, particularly if you can show
that
these uninsured and unlicensed vehicles are also using public roads.

A bridleway is a public road

OK I know that, I should have been more precise, but the police are less
likely to chase off-road vehicles for lack of tax and insurance. A
prosecution on a normal, public, metalled road used legally by motor
vehicles should be easy. (They might be road-legal of course).

On 25 Apr, 22:47, "newshound" wrote:


If it's a "real" bridleway (still regularly used by horses) try the BHS
county access officer, even if you don't ride yourself. Which county?

Why would a BHS bod be interested in helping me?

Perhaps cynically I would expect all they would be interested in is
stopping me from attempting to dissuade quads/bikes as from their sole
point of view it *may* also allegedly impede horsey types....?


You asked which county & I replied - did you have some information to
pass on?

ta
Jim

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember jim
saying something like:

Why would a BHS bod be interested in helping me?

To sell you some t-shirts, of course.

"jim" wrote in message
...
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

Any form of obstruction which *may* cause an incident would be classed as
illegal.
As a horse rider myself I have had to negotiate many "man made" obstacles on
bridleways in the past. Naturally for a confident rider a small leap over is
fine, but for the beginners.novices this can be quite daunting, especially
if you are unfortunate to come off.
Perhaps approaching the local counil and reminding them of their legal
obligations under http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000..._20000037_en_1
might assist in preventing the problem escalating into something more
dangerous and illegal.
Your case specifically see
SCHEDULE 7 Driving of mechanically propelled vehicles elsewhere than on
roads
National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 (c. 97)

"jim" wrote in message
...
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

ta
Jim

It might be interesting to ask this question on a legal group such as
uk.legal.moderated, It might clarify the position in law before you approach
the council.

Another thing you could do is to approach the other neighbours or even
walking groups in the area and see if you can organise a collective walk at
a time when the track is most used by bikers. The obstruction and nuisance
to motorbikes caused by lots of walkers could persuade them to go elsewhere.
Don

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?


If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited. Putting
obstructions out is not a good idea as this is illegal as well. The primary
responsibility rests with the Highways authority and the police.
Unfortunately you face an uphill struggle to get either to take any action.

Peter Crosland

On 26 Apr, 10:02, "Peter Crosland" wrote:

The primary
responsibility rests with the Highways authority and the police.
Unfortunately you face an uphill struggle to get either to take any action.

Precisely- hence the post - hoping for some pragmatic practical ideas
that have worked (or not worked) elsewhere or even how to shame/
encourage/assist those fine august bodies mentioned (that I help to
finance heavily of course) to do their flamin' jobs..

jim

Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, Peter Crosland wrote:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Aha! So its you annoying Jim is it?

:-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 26 Apr, 11:29, Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, The Medway Handyman wrote:

Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, Peter Crosland wrote:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Aha! So its you annoying Jim is it?

If I am, I want to WTF he's doing there.

)

why target practice of course ;)

Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, Peter Crosland wrote:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.


Then its not a bridleway, its a green road.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, Peter Crosland wrote:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.
Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Then its not a bridleway, its a green road.


If Huge owns the land (or has permission to drive over the land I guess)
on which the bridleway passes then he is at liberty to drive along it.

Though in a sense the ROW status is irrelevant here.
--
Chris French

The message
from chris French contains these words:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.
Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Then its not a bridleway, its a green road.


If Huge owns the land (or has permission to drive over the land I guess)
on which the bridleway passes then he is at liberty to drive along it.

Though in a sense the ROW status is irrelevant here.

Yes, my drive is a public footpath and i would have real problems if I
couldn't drive on it.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:
The message
from chris French contains these words:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.
Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Then its not a bridleway, its a green road.


If Huge owns the land (or has permission to drive over the land I guess)
on which the bridleway passes then he is at liberty to drive along it.

Though in a sense the ROW status is irrelevant here.

Yes, my drive is a public footpath and i would have real problems if I
couldn't drive on it.

Special status. Wayleave and so on. Or is it an easment.. Never can
remember.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2009-04-26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2009-04-26, Peter Crosland wrote:

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.


Then its not a bridleway, its a green road.

There is no such thing as a "green road". The term is meaningless, it has
no legal definition.

And it most assuredly *is* a bridleway. I've seen the Definitive Map.

Pretty much irrelevant to a lot of people though.
Driving along a bridleway is safe most of the time so the law can be ignored
just like speed limits can be ignored.

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.


Care to explain why you are exempt from the law?

Peter Crosland

On 26 Apr, 14:35, "Peter Crosland" wrote:
If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Care to explain why you are exempt from the law?

Peter Crosland

Expect that, same as for me, he's either the owner of the track that
also has a "public bridleway" right of way along it and can therefore
drive what he wants along it; or he has permission from the owners of
said track to drive on it??

jim

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Care to explain why you are exempt from the law?

Peter Crosland

Expect that, same as for me, he's either the owner of the track that
also has a "public bridleway" right of way along it and can therefore
drive what he wants along it; or he has permission from the owners of
said track to drive on it??


Which is fair enough, but very much the exception rather than the general
rule. The poster was being deliberately contradictory for the sake of it
rather than making a constructive comment. In fact the law has been changed
in the last few years so that a loophole which allowed powered vehicles on
many bridleways has been closed. It is also worth mentioning that there is
considerable confusion about the exact legal status of some "ways" of
different kinds.

Peter Crosland

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.

Care to explain why you are exempt from the law?

Peter Crosland

Expect that, same as for me, he's either the owner of the track that
also has a "public bridleway" right of way along it and can therefore
drive what he wants along it; or he has permission from the owners of
said track to drive on it??


Which is fair enough, but very much the exception rather than the rule. I
suspect that the poster was being deliberately provocative rather, than
making a relevant contribution to the discussion. In fact the law has been
changed in recent years to close a loophole that allowed motorised vehicles
to use many bridleways. This does not seem to be widely known and neither
does the difference between the various kinds of "ways" even amongst some so
called professionals.

Peter Crosland

If it really is a bridleway then motorised vehicles are prohibited.

Untrue. I drive down a bridleway, entirely legally, most days.


Care to explain why you are exempt from the law?

I'm not "exempt from the law". Like I said, my access is entirely legal.
Your
understanding of the law is wrong.


I am quite willing to accept that there are specific circumstances where
there are exceptions to the general rule which is very clear i.e. that
motorised vehicles are not normally allowed to use bridleways. The OP
stated that the people using the bridleway were not likely to be covered by
an exception. Making a statement that contradicts another without any
explanation of why is not constructive. If you can justify your assertion
with some facts then please do so.

Peter Crosland

On 25 Apr, 20:34, jim wrote:
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

ta
Jim

Crossbow bolt through the neck as they tear along!

On 25 Apr, 20:34, jim wrote:
Seems the silly season is officially upon us again.

Twice in 2 days we have had unregistered (and doubtless untaxed,
uninsured) quad bikes and scrambler bikes with accompanying foul
mouthed yobs riding up and down the bridleway next to our house -
grrr!

Anyone have any experience in "dissuading" them from returning? NB
thinking of man made obstructions rather than garotting wires,
shotguns, homemade explosives etc altho sometimes.........

I've had limited success with piles of largish logs, ugly old concrete
lumps etc making a "pinch point" that they have to get off and
dismantle to get past - still leaves me to go and rebuild it everytime
tho!

Complicating factor is of course bridleway status which means I have
to leave enough room to get a horse through.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas how I can dissuade 'em?

Part of the problem is that the ramblers association have successfully
campaigned to get so many dirt roads closed to vehicals that there are
aren't many legal places they can run. I don't think you'll have much
success building obstructions. Anything a horse can get around, a bike
will be able to get around as well. If you put a few 18" fences as
suggested by someone else, they'll just put a plank or two on them as
use them as jump practice.

I would try and contact your local TRF branch (http://
www.trf.org.uk/). They don't like illegal bike riders any more than
anybody else and they might have some constructive ideas.

If you contact the police, point out the bikes aren't road legal
(probably illegal exhaust, not road-approved tyres, may be no lights
etc) as well as riding illegally. The police around me have the
occassional clamp down on illegal riders so you might get lucky.

Matt