Hi all

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?

Anyone got and peronal experience?

Thanks

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Nicknoxx wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?

Anyone got and peronal experience?

Thanks

Propane-air would just about do brazing, but if the heating is too slow you
might melt out more joint than you make.
If the frame is 531 or better (753 etc.) then don't even try!
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

"Nicknoxx" wrote in message
...
Hi all

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?

Anyone got and peronal experience?

Personally I'd pop it round to a local engineering firm and part with a few
beer tokens to have it brazed properly.
Last thing you want is part of the frame parting company at speed.

On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Nicknoxx
wrote:

Hi all

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?

Anyone got and peronal experience?


What do you mean braze a bicycle frame?

The whole thing from bare tubes and lugs? a brake cable stop? a bottle
cage insert? a dropout? a frame stay?

Many years ago I've used a couple of butane torches for small fitting
repair jobs - not true brazing though as I used silver solder.
Propane-air ought to be up to the job but I've no firsthand experience
of it.

It might be useful to read the Tim Paterek manual on framebuilding -
the old version which is still crammed full of useful info is now
free, the new one is $75, and even then its much better value than
Richard Talbot's 'definitive' book on framebuilding which often
commands stratospheric prices - amazon has it for 212 quid secondhand!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Bu...=cm_lmf_tit_10


Patereks book is downloadable from he

http://www.iinet.com/~tpaterek/paterek.pdf


There are lots of helpful bike builders on the framebuilders mailing
list

http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders

I'll get round to building a steel frame from scratch one day but
until then I build mine from aluminium, glue and carbon fibre


--

On 12 Apr, 23:27, Mike wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Nicknoxx

wrote:
Hi all

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? *Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?

Anyone got and peronal experience?

What do you mean braze a bicycle frame?

The whole thing from bare tubes and lugs? a brake cable stop? a bottle
cage insert? a dropout? *a frame stay?


Yes, the whole thing from bare tubes and lugs. I have considered the
Dave Yates frame building
course but when you include all the costs, including a week's
accommodation, it's pretty expensive.

Option 2 is to have a go myself, option 3 is to have it made by a
local frame builder (about as expensive as the Dave Yates way) and
option 4 is to have it made in titanium in China by XACD.


Many years ago I've used a couple of butane torches for small fitting
repair jobs - not true brazing though as I used silver solder.
Propane-air ought to be up to the job but I've no firsthand experience
of it.

It might be useful to read the Tim Paterek manual on framebuilding -
the old version which is still crammed full of useful info is now
free, the new one is $75, and even then its much better value than
Richard Talbot's 'definitive' book on framebuilding which often
commands stratospheric prices - amazon has it for 212 quid secondhand!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Designing-Bu...meset/dp/09602...


Thanks, I've done a bit of reading and have been searching for a
cheaper copy of Talbot's book for a while.

Patereks book is downloadable from he

http://www.iinet.com/~tpaterek/paterek.pdf

That I didn't know , Thanks

There are lots of helpful bike builders on *the framebuilders mailing
list

http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders

The mtbr frame forum is also quite good and bikeCad is invaluable.

I'll get round to building a steel frame from scratch one day but
until then I build mine from aluminium, glue and carbon fibre

Jpegs?


--

Nicknoxx wrote:
On 12 Apr, 23:27, Mike wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Nicknoxx
wrote:

I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives?

What do you mean braze a bicycle frame?


Option 2 is to have a go myself,

To braze a complete bike frame, you have little choice but to use
oxy-acetylene (or electric TIG). Mapp gas torches, with their air/oxygen
cylinders will be expensive for such use, plus, Mapp gas doesnt get hot
enough IMO, you spend 10 minutes or so warming up the tubes before you
can think of brazing. When I used it many years ago, the oxygen cylinder
would last at most 20 minutes. Took 2 cylinders of oxy to weld a ~6"
square plate on my car.
It has ben sat in the garage since - just too expensive to use.

Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Nicknoxx wrote:
On 12 Apr, 23:27, Mike wrote:
On Sat, 11 Apr 2009 01:11:46 -0700 (PDT), Nicknoxx

wrote:
Hi all
I'd like to be able to braze a bicycle frame. Oxy acetylene is too
expensive for occasional use so what are my alternatives? Limited
research suggests MAPP, Propane or natural gas could be used as fuel
but will I be able to use air rather than oxygen?
Anyone got and peronal experience?
What do you mean braze a bicycle frame?

The whole thing from bare tubes and lugs? a brake cable stop? a bottle
cage insert? a dropout? a frame stay?


Yes, the whole thing from bare tubes and lugs. I have considered the
Dave Yates frame building
course but when you include all the costs, including a week's
accommodation, it's pretty expensive.

Option 2 is to have a go myself, option 3 is to have it made by a
local frame builder (about as expensive as the Dave Yates way) and
option 4 is to have it made in titanium in China by XACD.

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame. Personally, I would go for
the Chinese titanium frame. Having worked with this metal for some time,
you will be amazed at how light and strong it is. Just don't plan on
giving the frame any crash shocks. It won't recover. On the other hand,
steel tubes can sometimes be re formed again.

Many years ago I've used a couple of butane torches for small fitting
repair jobs - not true brazing though as I used silver solder.
Propane-air ought to be up to the job but I've no firsthand experience
of it.

It will probably be as strong as braze as the joint is in sheer. But the
possibility of having a titanium frame will bring down the weight of the
cycle considerably.

Dave

An ex biker of old

Dave wrote:

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame.

Err, ITYF that the vast majority of decent quality bikes are aluminium
framed.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

A.Lee wrote:
Dave wrote:

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame.

Err, ITYF that the vast majority of decent quality bikes are aluminium
framed.

Wont aluminium be soft after brazing?

Dave

Dave wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
Dave wrote:

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame.

Err, ITYF that the vast majority of decent quality bikes are aluminium
framed.

Wont aluminium be soft after brazing?

TIG welded.
Probably heat treated as well after welding. Loads of differing grades
of ally, just like steel - 531/753/853 etc.
Alan.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Dave wrote:
A.Lee wrote:
Dave wrote:

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame.

Err, ITYF that the vast majority of decent quality bikes are aluminium
framed.

Wont aluminium be soft after brazing?

It wont braze without special fluxes anyway.

Dave

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:26:31 +0100, A.Lee wrote:

Dave wrote:

A.Lee wrote:
Dave wrote:

If you are asking about brazing, you can only be using steel tubes.
Aluminium will be too soft for a bike frame.

Err, ITYF that the vast majority of decent quality bikes are aluminium
framed.

Wont aluminium be soft after brazing?

TIG welded.
Probably heat treated as well after welding. Loads of differing grades
of ally, just like steel - 531/753/853 etc.
Alan.

Dave Yates told me about all the courses he had to attend for these alloys.
Not a lot of tolerance in 753 and 853 - easy to bork.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.