I actually went for a short walk on Thursday, the first outing since
October, so I thought I would bore you all with a trip report. Then I
thought why bother? No one ever comments on my reports these days so I
thought I would whinge about my current in-car Sat Nav instead and then
pose a question.

Now the whinge. I usually set the Sat Nav these days just in case I get
lost ignoring its time consuming short cuts. Thursday's destination was
the minor road between Fountains Fell and Pen-y-Ghent and and
predictably the Sat Nav tried to lead me off the A65 even before I
entered Gargrave. The A65 had a set of temporary traffic lights before
the Settle turnoff which must have cost me at least a couple of minutes
and rush hour traffic prevented any overtaking but even so I arrived at
my destination just 5 minutes after the pre Gargrave ETA.

On the way back with plenty of time to spare I thought I might as well
see how stupid the programmers at Garmin had been and followed the Sat
Nav directions. Apart from the 9 minutes the ETA receded before I
finally reached the A65 again I was also treated to 2 junctions where
there were no verbal directions and the sun made viewing the screen
impossible. Now the first of those junctions was at an acute angle to a
major road (almost an oxymoron when applied to a minor country lane) and
the way on seemed obvious but the second was the opposite way round and
I followed the major road while the Sat Nav had expected me to go
straight on onto an even more minor road rather than bearing left.

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.



--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.

My old TomTom GO700 will let you specify destinations using an address,
postcode, a remembered favourite, a point indicated on its map, and a
latitude+longitude grid reference.

Having said that, being able to spec the destination (for for that
matter "via" points) using grid refs does not prevent it routing you
somewhere you would rather not go.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:57:52 +0000, Roger wrote:
Now the whinge. I usually set the Sat Nav these days just in case I get
lost ignoring its time consuming short cuts.

Getting lost is the best way of finding the really interesting stuff, IME
:-)

Roger wrote:
I actually went for a short walk on Thursday, the first outing since
October, so I thought I would bore you all with a trip report. Then I
thought why bother? No one ever comments on my reports these days so I
thought I would whinge about my current in-car Sat Nav instead and
then pose a question.

Now the whinge. I usually set the Sat Nav these days just in case I
get lost ignoring its time consuming short cuts. Thursday's
destination was the minor road between Fountains Fell and Pen-y-Ghent
and and predictably the Sat Nav tried to lead me off the A65 even
before I entered Gargrave. The A65 had a set of temporary traffic
lights before the Settle turnoff which must have cost me at least a
couple of minutes and rush hour traffic prevented any overtaking but
even so I arrived at my destination just 5 minutes after the pre
Gargrave ETA.

On the way back with plenty of time to spare I thought I might as well
see how stupid the programmers at Garmin had been and followed the Sat
Nav directions. Apart from the 9 minutes the ETA receded before I
finally reached the A65 again I was also treated to 2 junctions where
there were no verbal directions and the sun made viewing the screen
impossible. Now the first of those junctions was at an acute angle to
a major road (almost an oxymoron when applied to a minor country
lane) and the way on seemed obvious but the second was the opposite
way round and I followed the major road while the Sat Nav had
expected me to go straight on onto an even more minor road rather
than bearing left.

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy
way of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am
absolutely fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every
time it directs me down a single track road.

I've got the same toy with the same faults, ( I bought it for the the hands
free phone facility as much as anything else.). The most amusing one for me
local to home. If coming off the motorway, it sends me off at the third exit
to the roundabout5 rather than the first and outlines a route that must be
at least a couple of miles longer and uses similar grade roads. If I ignore,
which is always the best for SWMBO'd, she becomes all petulant and goes off
recalculating. "Continue on existing route 0.8 miles to roundabout" Bollox
to that, I'm turning right at the trafficlights just ahead. She doesn't
recognise these for some reason though they have been there for the best
part of ten years.

I have to say, that when I do this and she realises that I have made a smart
move she avoids going into "Recalculating" mode and silently shows me the
next part of the route. Immediately prior to home, she ignores one road to
the left as far too trivial to advise me about, assuming I know that and I
should be turning left at the second junction. We are almost there, passed
the school and the church and she tells me to turn right. Oh silly woman,
that's a turn too early. So yet again I ignore her and do my own thing: she
starts the "Recalculating" routine and then realises we are there, cutting
herself off in mid word and going into arrival routine.

Having travelled extensively over the country for many years without her, I
do not fall into the traps.

To be fair, there was one weekend recently when the police had completely
closed off the A55 after an accident, where I knew full well the direction
and roughly the roads to use but was not 100% confident having not used them
for close on 40 years when she was spot-on.

One of my kids has TomTom. He also has no geographic sense either. Currently
living in the NW - Manchester way the TomTom rightfully told him to head
south on the M6. At the Stoke junction, which is the logical turnoff to get
to Leics., the junction was blocked. TomTom told him to go down to the
new(ish) M6 by-pass and turn east skipping the shorter and more logical
route along the A5.

Another son has a friend living in Salop. That lad's SatNav told him how to
get to our address carefully avoiding the logical direct route, sending him
down the M54, M6, M42 and then cut across to Leics. It didn't even recognise
that the M6 Toll Road existed. Additional mileage must have been circa 30 on
a roughly 100 mile route.

Doncha just luv 'em?

PS I get the feeling that they are much of a much - we'll see....

Clot wrote:

Another son has a friend living in Salop. That lad's SatNav told him how to
get to our address carefully avoiding the logical direct route, sending him
down the M54, M6, M42 and then cut across to Leics. It didn't even recognise
that the M6 Toll Road existed. Additional mileage must have been circa 30 on
a roughly 100 mile route.

Doncha just luv 'em?

You do realise that many of them have route preference options... so if
you say you really like motorways, are not so fond of A roads, and hate
B roads they will quite often go out of your way to avoid the obvious in
favour of your stated preferences...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , John Rumm
scribeth thus
Clot wrote:

Another son has a friend living in Salop. That lad's SatNav told him how to
get to our address carefully avoiding the logical direct route, sending him
down the M54, M6, M42 and then cut across to Leics. It didn't even recognise
that the M6 Toll Road existed. Additional mileage must have been circa 30 on
a roughly 100 mile route.

Doncha just luv 'em?

You do realise that many of them have route preference options... so if
you say you really like motorways, are not so fond of A roads, and hate
B roads they will quite often go out of your way to avoid the obvious in
favour of your stated preferences...


Do they teach -anyone- how to read a map these days?...
--
Tony Sayer

Thanks for the input folks but actually I intended the message for
uk.rec.walking so don't be surprised if those who frequent both groups
see it turning up there later. I appreciate the depth of experience in
this ng but wanting to drive to somewhere that hasn't a name or postcode
is very much a minority interest.

--
Roger Chapman

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:18:36 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.

My old TomTom GO700 will let you specify destinations using an address,
postcode, a remembered favourite, a point indicated on its map, and a
latitude+longitude grid reference.

Do you mean lat+longitude, or NGR?

My TomTom GO710 won't (AFAIK) deal with NGR, which is why I had to get
a proper GPS receiver (which of course also shows tracks and other
features which a SatNav doesn't). I frequently walk disused railway
tracks.

--
Frank Erskine

Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.


My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road, but I suspect it has most of the same weaknesses as other SatNav
systems. The devil is in the detail - the mapping is often poor and is
usually responsible for the silliest errors, some of which can be quite
dangerous.

I am thoroughly fed up of being diverted down single track roads with
grass growing in between two tarmac wheel tracks, only to find that they
save a few tens of metres over using a 60 mph A or B road and therefore
waste many minutes. And this is in the Chilterns - hardly a remote and
sparsely populated area.

The message
from John Rumm contains these words:

You do realise that many of them have route preference options... so if
you say you really like motorways, are not so fond of A roads, and hate
B roads they will quite often go out of your way to avoid the obvious in
favour of your stated preferences...

My unit has 2 main preferences - fastest and shortest. Unfortunately it
appears that those clever clogs at Garmin have no idea of the difference
between single track and single carriageway roads. From the way in which
the ETA recedes into the distance it appears to me that they have a
target average of 40 mph for single track roads which might be ok for
some of the long straight roads in Northern Scotland (assuming they
haven't been upgraded to dual carriageways since I was last there) but
for twisty lanes with high banks or hedges 40 mph is the height of
absurdity and even a 20 mph average would often be optimistic.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road, but I suspect it has most of the same weaknesses as other SatNav
systems. The devil is in the detail - the mapping is often poor and is
usually responsible for the silliest errors, some of which can be quite
dangerous.

Tom-Tom claim to be the best so if they can't deal with single track
roads it looks as if I am stuck with what I have got and must review
every route before I set off so I know where to ignore the directions.

Lat/long is a bit of a pain. You can't just read it off a map like a
grid reference.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from tony sayer contains these words:

Do they teach -anyone- how to read a map these days?...

I doubt if it is in the National Curriculum and in any case a hand held
gps removes the need to know anything about navigation particularly if
used in conjunction with a mobile phone. :-)

I however am a hill walker of the old school having spent some 40 years
relying on map and compass work (often alone and often as not in poor
visibility) before surrendering to temptation and buying a handheld gps.
I haven't as yet left the stone age completely behind as I still lack
that other modern essential, a mobile phone.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road, but I suspect it has most of the same weaknesses as other SatNav
systems. The devil is in the detail - the mapping is often poor and is
usually responsible for the silliest errors, some of which can be quite
dangerous.

Tom-Tom claim to be the best so if they can't deal with single track
roads it looks as if I am stuck with what I have got and must review
every route before I set off so I know where to ignore the directions.


If TomTom is the best, I dread to think what the worst is like. I have
crawled at 10-15 mph up narrow, single track lanes with the sump guard
on my car scraping the gravel in the centre of the road just to save a
couple of hundred metres that would have been on a first class A road.

I have two TomTom systems, one on a PDA and one standalone. The
software versions are slightly different and there are some
inconsistencies between the directions they give. But both have made
the same potentially dangerous errors at the same locations.

I almost bought my partner a cheap Medion system for £49 but was warned
off by a friend who had one and threw it into a river as a result of the
sheer frustration it caused him. ;-)


Lat/long is a bit of a pain. You can't just read it off a map like a
grid reference.


That's true. But if it is somewhere you go regularly, on your first
trip you can save the GPS position as a Favourite and easily call it up
for all future visits.

Frank Erskine wrote:
On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:18:36 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.
My old TomTom GO700 will let you specify destinations using an address,
postcode, a remembered favourite, a point indicated on its map, and a
latitude+longitude grid reference.

Do you mean lat+longitude, or NGR?

lat+longitude...

My TomTom GO710 won't (AFAIK) deal with NGR, which is why I had to get
a proper GPS receiver (which of course also shows tracks and other
features which a SatNav doesn't). I frequently walk disused railway
tracks.

More to the point, the sat nave GPS will always try to map you onto a
known road if it can. Hence if you are but off road but close to one it
will assume that you are on the road, and it has just got a measurement
error.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Bruce formulated on Saturday :
If TomTom is the best, I dread to think what the worst is like. I have
crawled at 10-15 mph up narrow, single track lanes with the sump guard
on my car scraping the gravel in the centre of the road just to save a
couple of hundred metres that would have been on a first class A road.

I have both TomTom and Garmin. Both do make mistakes sometimes really
major ones, but I find my Garmin makes fewer and is the better/ more
reliable of the two and often takes me right to the door.

My Garmin has made two spectacular errors in the four years I have had
it. It once took me down a farm track, which ended in a disused and
impassable pack horse bridge and more recently took me down a back
street to the gates of a locked scrap yard backing onto a canal. It
seemed to think I could go through the scrap yard and there was a none
existent bridge over the canal.

The TomTom often has me going around in repeated circles several times.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road, but I suspect it has most of the same weaknesses as other SatNav
systems. The devil is in the detail - the mapping is often poor and is
usually responsible for the silliest errors, some of which can be quite
dangerous.

Tom-Tom claim to be the best so if they can't deal with single track
roads it looks as if I am stuck with what I have got and must review
every route before I set off so I know where to ignore the directions.


If TomTom is the best, I dread to think what the worst is like. I have
crawled at 10-15 mph up narrow, single track lanes with the sump guard
on my car scraping the gravel in the centre of the road just to save a
couple of hundred metres that would have been on a first class A road.

Do you set it to use the shortest route?
It does state that it may take roads you might not want to use on that
setting.
I use quickest route and it seldom uses any single track roads.
It does tend to want to use motorways a lot though.

Frank Erskine wrote:

I frequently walk disused railway
tracks.
s'funny I walk the used ones ;-)
AJH

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Bruce formulated on Saturday :
If TomTom is the best, I dread to think what the worst is like. I have
crawled at 10-15 mph up narrow, single track lanes with the sump guard
on my car scraping the gravel in the centre of the road just to save a
couple of hundred metres that would have been on a first class A road.

I have both TomTom and Garmin. Both do make mistakes sometimes really
major ones, but I find my Garmin makes fewer and is the better/ more
reliable of the two and often takes me right to the door.

My Garmin has made two spectacular errors in the four years I have had
it. It once took me down a farm track, which ended in a disused and
impassable pack horse bridge and more recently took me down a back
street to the gates of a locked scrap yard backing onto a canal. It
seemed to think I could go through the scrap yard and there was a none
existent bridge over the canal.

The TomTom often has me going around in repeated circles several times.


I must admit I would like to try a different brand because I am fed up
with TomTom's inconsistencies. For the top brand SatNav it really isn't
as good as it should be. Even of another brand has a similar number of
problems, I could forgive that because I sense a degree of arrogance and
complacency at TomTom that I find disturbing in the light of so many
elementary errors.

Faulty mapping is no longer an excuse because TomTom bought the mapping
company (TeleAtlas?) in 2008 so it is all now in-house.

The worst of the many errors I have found occurred when approaching a
roundabout at which I needed to turn right. It was foggy with about
40-50 yards visibility.

TomTom directed me to turn right about 70 yards before the roundabout;
the turn was clearly shown on the unit's map. But that right turn was
actually a protected left turn lane for traffic coming the other way
down the road I intended to exit into. It is therefore one way in the
other direction. TomTom expected me to cross a lane of oncoming traffic
and proceed the wrong way up this one way protected turn lane.

Fortunately I has made this turn before and remembered just in time to
go to the roundabout and take the third exit. I was so shocked by
TomTom's error that I went back three times to check TomTom's
directions. On each of the four occasions, the instructions were
precisely the same.

There are many minor irritations such as getting wrong the number of
exits from a roundabout, and being asked to "cross the roundabout" when
what is clearly needed is a "go left on the roundabout" or a "go right
on the roundabout". There are also some terrible inconsistencies when a
major road turns left or right at a junction with another road;
sometimes TomTom stays quiet and on other occasions it instructs a left
or right turn when all you are doing is following a main road.

There is a system for TomTom users to report inconsistencies and these
updates can be loaded onto your SatNav using the TomTom Home software on
your home PC. But there is a great leap of faith involved in accepting
some or all of the modifications suggested by amateurs, when what is
needed is for TomTom to employ people to check out these inconsistencies
and errors on the ground.

So I might try Garmin next time. As the No.2 in the market they must
surely have to try harder than the No.1. I hope. ;-)

"Bruce" wrote in message
...

8

The worst of the many errors I have found occurred when approaching a
roundabout at which I needed to turn right. It was foggy with about
40-50 yards visibility.

TomTom directed me to turn right about 70 yards before the roundabout;
the turn was clearly shown on the unit's map. But that right turn was
actually a protected left turn lane for traffic coming the other way
down the road I intended to exit into. It is therefore one way in the
other direction. TomTom expected me to cross a lane of oncoming traffic
and proceed the wrong way up this one way protected turn lane.

Fortunately I has made this turn before and remembered just in time to
go to the roundabout and take the third exit. I was so shocked by
TomTom's error that I went back three times to check TomTom's
directions. On each of the four occasions, the instructions were
precisely the same.

Its a computer.. unless you edited the map it will produce the same output.
At least its easy to edit a simple error like that.
It is somewhat harder to add a new road.

dennis@home submitted this idea :
Do you set it to use the shortest route?
It does state that it may take roads you might not want to use on that
setting.
I use quickest route and it seldom uses any single track roads.
It does tend to want to use motorways a lot though.

I use both, depending why I am travelling. I do find the 'shortest'
setting finds me some very interesting roads, which I cannot even find
on my paper maps and usually they are very usable.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:58:51 +0000, Bruce wrote:

Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the highly
unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some other easy way
of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere? I am absolutely
fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi every time it directs
me down a single track road.


My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road,

Some of us like to get away from roads though...

:-)
--
Frank Erskine

Roger wrote:
I actually went for a short walk on Thursday, the first outing since
October, so I thought I would bore you all with a trip report. Then I
thought why bother? No one ever comments on my reports these days so I
thought I would whinge about my current in-car Sat Nav instead and
then pose a question.

Now the whinge. I usually set the Sat Nav these days just in case I
get lost ignoring its time consuming short cuts.

SNIP

Why don't you just walk to the local pub & save all those problems?



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Roger" wrote in message
k...

On the way back with plenty of time to spare I thought I might as well
see how stupid the programmers at Garmin had been and followed the Sat
Nav directions. Apart from the 9 minutes the ETA receded before I
finally reached the A65 again I was also treated to 2 junctions where
there were no verbal directions and the sun made viewing the screen
impossible. Now the first of those junctions was at an acute angle to a
major road (almost an oxymoron when applied to a minor country lane) and
the way on seemed obvious but the second was the opposite way round and
I followed the major road while the Sat Nav had expected me to go
straight on onto an even more minor road rather than bearing left.

So where did it take you? (my neck of the woods, I'm just curious :-) )

Bruce wrote:
Roger wrote:

And now the question - are there any in-car unitsother than the
highly unsatisfactory Garmins that take grid references or some
other easy way of specifying a destination in the middle of nowhere?
I am absolutely fed up with having to second guess my current nuvi
every time it directs me down a single track road.


My TomTom will accept a lat/long position and guide you to the nearest
road, but I suspect it has most of the same weaknesses as other SatNav
systems. The devil is in the detail - the mapping is often poor and
is usually responsible for the silliest errors, some of which can be
quite dangerous.

I am thoroughly fed up of being diverted down single track roads with
grass growing in between two tarmac wheel tracks, only to find that
they save a few tens of metres over using a 60 mph A or B road and
therefore waste many minutes. And this is in the Chilterns - hardly
a remote and sparsely populated area.

I fail to understand why anyone believes in the things. They all "lie" and
will forever. Learn what geography is and a knowledge of directions.Depart
from the Chattering Class and get a life?

The message
from Bruce contains these words:

Snip

There are many minor irritations such as getting wrong the number of
exits from a roundabout, and being asked to "cross the roundabout" when
what is clearly needed is a "go left on the roundabout" or a "go right
on the roundabout". There are also some terrible inconsistencies when a
major road turns left or right at a junction with another road;
sometimes TomTom stays quiet and on other occasions it instructs a left
or right turn when all you are doing is following a main road.

snip

So I might try Garmin next time. As the No.2 in the market they must
surely have to try harder than the No.1. I hope. ;-)

You won't see much change there. Getting the route of the major road
wrong is almost routine with Garmin. I am beginning to wonder if,
underneath all the the superficial differences, there is just one basic
software product.

--
Roger Chapman

The message
from "Clive George" contains these words:

"Roger" wrote in message
k...

On the way back with plenty of time to spare I thought I might as well
see how stupid the programmers at Garmin had been and followed the Sat
Nav directions. Apart from the 9 minutes the ETA receded before I
finally reached the A65 again I was also treated to 2 junctions where
there were no verbal directions and the sun made viewing the screen
impossible. Now the first of those junctions was at an acute angle to a
major road (almost an oxymoron when applied to a minor country lane) and
the way on seemed obvious but the second was the opposite way round and
I followed the major road while the Sat Nav had expected me to go
straight on onto an even more minor road rather than bearing left.

So where did it take you? (my neck of the woods, I'm just curious :-) )

About a mile before Stainforth, by Sannet Hall Farm, I turned left. The
first of the silent junctions was just a mile and a half further on and
the second (by Higher Tren House Farm) a similar distance further on. On
the map that second junction is a crossroads rather than a Y and not
shaped as I remembered it as a straight on right turn (IYSWIM). From
there the route went Malham, Airton, Eshton, Gargrave. A mixture of
single track and just about single carriageway roads and by no means as
bad as the worst of the roads I have been routed along in the wilds of
Wales.

From Sannet Hall Farm to Gargrave this way the distance is 12.8 miles.
Via Settle and the A65 it is 15.5 miles.

I have to say in defence of Sat Navs that in general it has proved a
boon. Navigating while driving alone on minor roads in unfamilar
territory can be a nightmare with a paper map. What is infuriating is
where an extra few miles can save 10s of minutes as well as avoiding the
added stress of for ever driving round blind bends.

--
Roger Chapman

On Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:54:57 +0000, andrew wrote:

Frank Erskine wrote:

I frequently walk disused railway
tracks.
s'funny I walk the used ones ;-)
AJH

good training.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

Roger wrote:

Lat/long is a bit of a pain. You can't just read it off a map like a
grid reference.

http://www.dorcus.co.uk/carabus/jscalculators.html

Enter NGR and get Lat/Long or vice versa. The calculation is done in
Javascript on your browser so if you save the page locally you don't need
to be online to use it.
--
Dave

Roger wrote:
Bruce wrote:

So I might try Garmin next time. As the No.2 in the market they must
surely have to try harder than the No.1. I hope. ;-)

You won't see much change there. Getting the route of the major road
wrong is almost routine with Garmin. I am beginning to wonder if,
underneath all the the superficial differences, there is just one basic
software product.


I think the underlying problems come from the mapping. And there are
only two main sources of mapping, one of which - TeleAtlas - is now
owned by TomTom. The other - NavTeq - is still independent but supplies
mapping to Garmin and several other smaller SatNav manufacturers.

So I think my next SatNav will be from Garmin.

"Clot" wrote:

I fail to understand why anyone believes in the things.


Because, despite all their failings, they are incredibly useful tools.

I always carry a map too.

Bruce wrote:

The other - NavTeq - is still independent


Sorry, it isn't independent. NavTeq is owned by Nokia.

The message
from Dave Pickles contains these words:

Lat/long is a bit of a pain. You can't just read it off a map like a
grid reference.

http://www.dorcus.co.uk/carabus/jscalculators.html

Enter NGR and get Lat/Long or vice versa. The calculation is done in
Javascript on your browser so if you save the page locally you don't need
to be online to use it.

Thanks for that Dave.

BTW are you the Dave Pickles I met on a uk.rec.walking meet some years
ago? If so well hello again.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger wrote:

BTW are you the Dave Pickles I met on a uk.rec.walking meet some years
ago? If so well hello again.

Indeed so, and hello.

Dave

It happens that Clot formulated :
I fail to understand why anyone believes in the things. They all "lie" and
will forever. Learn what geography is and a knowledge of directions.Depart
from the Chattering Class and get a life?

A very strange comment to make!

I started using sat nav a number of years before it was actually
combined into one unit. I started with a home made receiver plugged
into a laptop which carried the maps - at which time you could buy
portable units, but they only provided you with a lat/long - not a map.

It was wonderful to be relieved of the duty of both driving and trying
to navigate. When the small sat nav's came out with a built in map,
search facilities, directions and a small screen - I bought one. I have
used it (still use the same one) almost exclusively and ignoring the
paper maps. I now have three sat nav's, one fitted to each of my
vehicles I make very good use of them.

I was brought up on paper maps, I am very capable of working out road
routes, I am very capable of using OS maps and a compass - but I choose
to use sat nav as my first choice.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Why don't you just walk to the local pub & save all those problems?


In my local pub, my _son_ says _he_ feels old. The next one along is a
_great_ place to get advice on fixing your motorbike. Next after that
has giant-screen footie...

I really must move to a different area!

Andy