Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed from
the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large round
decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to feed over
them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the ceiling
without damaging the molding and without taking the floor boards up? Could
you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the edge of the molding and
feed it through to the light fitting hole?

"Jack Sprat" wrote in message
...
Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed
from the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large
round decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to feed
over them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the ceiling
without damaging the molding and without taking the floor boards up? Could
you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the edge of the molding
and feed it through to the light fitting hole?



Depends where you drill the hole in relation to where the joists are. An
un-bent wire coathanger is your friend for tasks like this. But one other
thing occurs to me. I'm not a sparky, but is it actually legal to 'steal' a
feed from a lighting circuit to power an item of fixed non-lighting
equipment ?

Arfa

In article ,
Jack Sprat wrote:
Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed
from the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large
round decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to
feed over them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the
ceiling without damaging the molding and without taking the floor
boards up? Could you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the
edge of the molding and feed it through to the light fitting hole?

Seems to me the most difficult place to pickup power from - the middle of
the ceiling. Why not a spur off the final ring circuit? Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

--
*Gaffer tape - The Force, light and dark sides - holds the universe together*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jack Sprat wrote:
Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed from
the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large round
decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to feed over
them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the ceiling
without damaging the molding and without taking the floor boards up? Could
you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the edge of the molding and
feed it through to the light fitting hole?

If you consider the construction of the floor/ceiling structure, the
question should answer itself. Usually one has lots of parallel timber
joists with flooring sheet or planks on top, and plasterboard fixed
underneath. So parallel with the joists one can feed the wire
unimpeded, and have it come out of a hole almost anywhre. And if
running across the oists one just needs to drill a hole through one
from where the light is fitted.


NT

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jack Sprat wrote:
Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed
from the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large
round decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to
feed over them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the
ceiling without damaging the molding and without taking the floor
boards up? Could you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the
edge of the molding and feed it through to the light fitting hole?

Seems to me the most difficult place to pickup power from - the middle of
the ceiling. Why not a spur off the final ring circuit? Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.


Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

Arfa

In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?

--
Mike Barnes

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Jack Sprat" wrote in message
...
Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed
from the live side of our ceiling lights. Some of the lights have large
round decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to feed
over them as it will look awful.

We can't take the floor boards up above them so is it possible to take a
feed from the lights to the outside edge of the molding above the ceiling
without damaging the molding and without taking the floor boards up?
Could you take the light fitting down, drill a hole at the edge of the
molding and feed it through to the light fitting hole?



Depends where you drill the hole in relation to where the joists are. An
un-bent wire coathanger is your friend for tasks like this. But one other
thing occurs to me.





I'm not a sparky, but is it actually legal to 'steal' a
feed from a lighting circuit to power an item of fixed non-lighting
equipment ?

Arfa


As long as you do not overload the circuit with what you add (an alarm will
only be a few watts)then there is nothing illegal in taking a feed from the
lights. It may not be best practice but it may be the most convenient non
destructive way of getting power.

Adam

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?

--
Mike Barnes

I can assure you that CFLs can take out an MCB when they fail.

Adam

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?

--
Mike Barnes

It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ... d;~}

Arfa

In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
d...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?


It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ... d;~}

Quite so. My CFLs have never failed that way, but the dramatic drop in
the frequency of over-current trips is perhaps also due to the normal
load on the circuit now being so far below its limit.

By the way, you can now get golf-ball CFLs. I'm sure you're delighted to
hear that. :-)

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
d...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?


It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ... d;~}

Quite so. My CFLs have never failed that way, but the dramatic drop in
the frequency of over-current trips is perhaps also due to the normal
load on the circuit now being so far below its limit.

By the way, you can now get golf-ball CFLs. I'm sure you're delighted to
hear that. :-)

presumably not with enough light output though. Sometimes golfball
fittings will take the smallest size of 100watter too.


NT

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
id...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog
happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and
they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?


It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do
it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a
combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ...
d;~}

Quite so. My CFLs have never failed that way, but the dramatic drop in
the frequency of over-current trips is perhaps also due to the normal
load on the circuit now being so far below its limit.

You are talking ******** and you have never seen a fuse/MCB trip chart.


Adam

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
id...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog
happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and
they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?


It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do
it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a
combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ...
d;~}

Quite so. My CFLs have never failed that way, but the dramatic drop in
the frequency of over-current trips is perhaps also due to the normal
load on the circuit now being so far below its limit.

By the way, you can now get golf-ball CFLs. I'm sure you're delighted to
hear that. :-)

--
Mike Barnes

I am Mike ! Not ... ;-)

Arfa

In uk.d-i-y, ARWadsworth wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
d...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
lid...
In uk.d-i-y, Arfa Daily wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Apart from
anything else, lighting circuits often trip when a bulb fails.

Indeed they do ! Just on Saturday night, I was sitting in the bog
happily
reading a sci-fi novel, when all the lights went out. There followed a
wail
from the missus that she had just switched on the bedroom light, and
they
had all fused ...

That would be one of those old-school incandescent lamps, then?


It would, but some of the failure modes of the new-fangled CFLs will do
it,
too. As it happens, it was one of three golf-ball bulbs that are in a
combo
light / ceiling fan, so I couldn't realistically change them to CFLs, even
if I wanted to which, as I'm sure you are alluding to having seen my views
on them, I was never going to be doing in a million years, anyway ...
d;~}

Quite so. My CFLs have never failed that way, but the dramatic drop in
the frequency of over-current trips is perhaps also due to the normal
load on the circuit now being so far below its limit.

You are talking ********

Which part in particular? I'm talking of my own experience and I'm
surprised to hear that you think you know better than I do. In previous
houses I experienced the occasional trip (once a year, or less). In this
house the MCB tripped almost every time a bulb went. I did some
calculations and found that the circuit was nearly fully loaded. I
changed to CFLs over six years ago and it hasn't tripped since. How do
you explain that?

and you have never seen a fuse/MCB trip chart.

That's true, but so what?

--
Mike Barnes

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Which part in particular? I'm talking of my own experience and I'm
surprised to hear that you think you know better than I do. In previous
houses I experienced the occasional trip (once a year, or less). In this
house the MCB tripped almost every time a bulb went. I did some
calculations and found that the circuit was nearly fully loaded.

You have all the lighting load on all of the time? Not surprised you
changed to CFLs.

However, if your MCB trips with every bulb failure might be worth changing
to one less sensitive. Basically one that allows a slightly longer
overload before tripping.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 10:07:25 -0000 someone who may be "Jack Sprat"
wrote this:-

Hi we are having an alarm system installed which will be taking a feed from
the live side of our ceiling lights.

Would it not be better to take the feed from another circuit, a
separate way, or if it is to be from the lighting circuit elsewhere
on the lighting circuit?

Some of the lights have large round
decorative moldings around them and we don't want the cable to feed over
them as it will look awful.

I get the impression that electricity will be take from more than
one light fitting. Is this some sort of mains fed but radio based
system which avoids wires between panel and sensors? If so alarm
cables are rather easier to install neatly or conceal than twin &
earth.





--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Apropos the spelling and punctuation thread, I have to ask..does the
light fitting have a cable phobia?
;-)

In uk.d-i-y, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Which part in particular? I'm talking of my own experience and I'm
surprised to hear that you think you know better than I do. In previous
houses I experienced the occasional trip (once a year, or less). In this
house the MCB tripped almost every time a bulb went. I did some
calculations and found that the circuit was nearly fully loaded.

You have all the lighting load on all of the time?

No, but most of it is on when any of it is on.

Not surprised you
changed to CFLs.

FWIW it was the frequency of bulbs failing that prompted the change. The
energy saving was welcome but more-or-less incidental.

However, if your MCB trips with every bulb failure [...]

It doesn't.

--
Mike Barnes