I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a condensing
combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the rads and pipework
be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any dust etc. in the pipes?
The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer that the
installation will be completed in one day, and I am concerned that this is
not enough time to do the job properly, although the installation is pretty
straightforward, and it will be a 'team' doing the work.

In article ,
Harry Stottle wrote:
I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a
condensing combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the
rads and pipework be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any
dust etc. in the pipes? The reason I am asking is that I have been told
by the installer that the installation will be completed in one day,
and I am concerned that this is not enough time to do the job properly,
although the installation is pretty straightforward, and it will be a
'team' doing the work.

Most would do a trial fill to check for leaks etc before adding inhibitor.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...

I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a condensing
combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the rads and pipework
be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any dust etc. in the
pipes? The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer
that the installation will be completed in one day, and I am concerned that
this is not enough time to do the job properly, although the installation
is pretty straightforward, and it will be a 'team' doing the work.

Do not have an Ideal boiler at any costs. Look at a Broag 39C. Made by
Remeha, a long standing in the UK quality Dutch maker. They use quality
standard industry parts: Gianonni heat exchanger, Honeywell hydroblock,
Grundfos pump, Dungs gas valve. Weather compensation as standard.
OpenTherm control. The system and open vented boilers are "dual
temperature" boilers. The best price/performance around. The Dutch have the
reputation in this game and make the best boilers. Also look at Atmos.
Atmos are quality design and manufacture. My favourite combi and they have
OpenTherm control and weather compensation too. If you want to spend more
then buy an ATAG - the best.

Install a Maganclean filter on the CH return pipe "this is essential". Have
them put de-sludger in the system for ta least 1 day before installation.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"Harry Stottle" wrote in message
...

I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a condensing
combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the rads and pipework
be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any dust etc. in the
pipes? The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer
that the installation will be completed in one day, and I am concerned
that this is not enough time to do the job properly, although the
installation is pretty straightforward, and it will be a 'team' doing the
work.

Do not have an Ideal boiler at any costs.

This is the problem, it is not at any cost, and the boiler choice is not
negotiable :-)

Install a Maganclean filter on the CH return pipe "this is essential".
Have them put de-sludger in the system for ta least 1 day before
installation.

Thanks, but I can't see anything being installed that is not specified, so I
don't think I will be seeing a Magnaclean filter, and if they are doing the
work in one day, then it is obviously not going to have de-sludger in for
one day. I am just trying to make sure that under my circumstances, I get as
reliable and as clean a system as possible, but I am not able to dictate to
the installers what is fitted, only point out any specific procedures that
must be followed according to manufacturers specifications, this is why I
want to know if the system *must* be flushed prior to connection to the
boiler, and what is acceptable as flushing. Below are the relevant
installation instructions from the manual, but it does not make it clear if
this is for a new installation, or if they are for a boiler that is to be
connected to an existing system which might contain contaminants and
could affect the new boiler, as it only mentions existing systems, if you
see what I mean.

If water treatment is used Caradon Ideal Limited recommend only the use of
FERNOX-COPAL or MB1, GE BETZ SENTINEL X100 or Salamander Corrosion Guard
inhibitors and associated water treatment products, which must be used in
accordance with the manufacturers' instructions.

Notes.

1. It is most important that the correct concentration of the water
treatment products is maintained in accordance with the manufacturers'
instructions.

2. If the boiler is installed in an existing system any unsuitable additives
MUST be removed by thorough cleansing. BS 7593:1992 details the steps
necessary to clean a domestic heating system.

3. In hard water areas, treatment to prevent lime scale may be necessary -
however the use of artificially softened water is NOT permitted.

4. Under no circumstances should the boiler be fired before the system has
been thoroughly flushed.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 00:51:45 -0000, Harry Stottle wrote:

The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer that
the installation will be completed in one day,

This isn't a Warm Front install is it?

and I am concerned that this is not enough time to do the job properly,

Define "properly". In my book that is with minimal surface pipework and
everything replaced/refixed and "made good" ready for decorating. IMHO
it's not possible to do that in a day, getting access and putting the
pipes in the floor voids could take a day or more.

Are they using copper or plastic pipes. With copper it should be flushed
to remove flux residues and swarf. Probably not quite so important with
plastic.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
"Harry Stottle" writes:
I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a condensing
combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the rads and pipework
be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any dust etc. in the pipes?

Yes. It's usually a condition of the guarantee for the boiler that
the system is flushed with something like Sentinel X300 to remove
flux and any other debris which can be found in new plumbing fittings.
May not be so necessary if system is mostly plastic pipework with no
soldering.

The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer that the
installation will be completed in one day, and I am concerned that this is
not enough time to do the job properly, although the installation is pretty
straightforward, and it will be a 'team' doing the work.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Harry Stottle" writes:
I am having a complete central heating system installed, with a
condensing
combination boiler, (Ideal HE24), and 6 rads, should the rads and
pipework
be flushed before firing up the boiler to remove any dust etc. in the
pipes?

Yes. It's usually a condition of the guarantee for the boiler that
the system is flushed with something like Sentinel X300 to remove
flux and any other debris which can be found in new plumbing fittings.
May not be so necessary if system is mostly plastic pipework with no
soldering.

Thanks Andrew, and the others that have responded, I think the system is to
be installed using all copper pipework so I will make sure that the system
is at least flushed, even if the flush cannot be left in the system for 24
hours.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 00:51:45 -0000, Harry Stottle wrote:

The reason I am asking is that I have been told by the installer that
the installation will be completed in one day,

This isn't a Warm Front install is it?

Ten points to that man ;-)

and I am concerned that this is not enough time to do the job properly,

Define "properly". In my book that is with minimal surface pipework and
everything replaced/refixed and "made good" ready for decorating. IMHO
it's not possible to do that in a day, getting access and putting the
pipes in the floor voids could take a day or more.

Are they using copper or plastic pipes. With copper it should be flushed
to remove flux residues and swarf. Probably not quite so important with
plastic.


It will be copper pipes. I have done some floorboard preparation to make the
job a lot easier for the fitters, so it should be straightforward, giving
them enough time to flush the system, providing the flush does not have to
remain in the pipes for too long, which was my main concern time wise.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:32:13 -0000, Harry Stottle wrote:

This isn't a Warm Front install is it?

Ten points to that man ;-)

Oh dear, good luck, you may well need a lot of it.

I think our neighbours have things sorted out now but not after a couple
of insurance claims for new carpets and a sofa. Electrician fitting the
thermostat drilled through one of the new pipes... Pipe runs are mainly
surface and it took several installation attempts as the fitters hadn't
got the tools to deal with 12" stone walls. Despite this being pointed out
the the "surveyor" and each time as the arrived then said they couldn't do
it. Oh and the fitters were travelling about 50 miles to the job so
arrived gone 0900 and left about 1500.

It will be copper pipes. I have done some floorboard preparation to make
the job a lot easier for the fitters, so it should be straightforward,
giving them enough time to flush the system, providing the flush does
not have to remain in the pipes for too long, which was my main concern
time wise.

Well in general and IMHO the fitters used by Warm Front are not the
brightest in the box. Any heating firm that is any good will have enough
work from their reputation without having to take cut to the bone budget
jobs that require them to rush to finish within the timescale allocated.

I suggest getting the installation manual for the boiler (online or swipe
it from the box when they arrive) and see what it says about flushing and
a new install. Then make sure they stick to those instructions, even if
they have to come back the next day or the day after(*). Be prepared to
firmly argue your case and don't accept no for an answer. Bear in mind the
fitters are effectyievly caught between a rock and hard place, your
argument is with their supervisor/Warm Front not them.

(*) If the instructions say the flushing agent should be in the system for
24 hrs filling it at 1700 then washing it out a 0900 the next day is not
24hrs...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Harry Stottle wrote:
Thanks Andrew, and the others that have responded, I think the system is to
be installed using all copper pipework so I will make sure that the system
is at least flushed, even if the flush cannot be left in the system for 24
hours.

Fernox say "When pre-commission cleansing new systems, Fernox Cleaner F3
should be circulated for a minimum of 1 hour at normal operating temperature."
http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=restorer_500ml&sub=2

So you shouldn't need a flush in the system for 24 hours. (An old sludged
up system is another matter.)

"Alan Braggins" wrote in message
...
In article , Harry Stottle wrote:
Thanks Andrew, and the others that have responded, I think the system is
to
be installed using all copper pipework so I will make sure that the system
is at least flushed, even if the flush cannot be left in the system for 24
hours.

Fernox say "When pre-commission cleansing new systems, Fernox Cleaner F3
should be circulated for a minimum of 1 hour at normal operating
temperature."
http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=restorer_500ml&sub=2

So you shouldn't need a flush in the system for 24 hours. (An old sludged
up system is another matter.)

This could be hard to achieve since the installation instructions state that
the system must be flushed prior to connection to the boiler, therefore
making it impossible to circulate the Fernox for a minimum of 1 hour at
normal operating temperatures :-)
I think a phone call to Ideal is needed to see what their recommendations
are.