I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

The chain set is a Shimano 400LX (in case it makes a difference).

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by using a
locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.
Is it this simple or do I need a bit more information ?

Should I just adjust it to remove play, or should I look at stripping down
completely - clean & re-grease (never been done before on bike - and it's
21 yrs old)

Am I right to assume I can buy the 2 tools in a cycle shop ? or anybody
have a good on-line source.

Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

I'm not sure that you'll be able to adjust it, unless it is REALLY old.
They have been sealed units for 20 years or so now, approx £15 upwards
for a new one.
You'll need to take the old one out first, as there are many different
lengths and offset combinations.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:36:55 -0000, Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

Are you sure it really needs tightening? A very small amount of movement
isn't too bad.

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by using a
locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.
Is it this simple or do I need a bit more information ?

No its easy, see parktool or

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbadj.html

Just remember that one side opens clockwise, the other counter clockwise.

Should I just adjust it to remove play, or should I look at stripping down
completely - clean & re-grease (never been done before on bike - and it's
21 yrs old)

I would, but thats just me.

Am I right to assume I can buy the 2 tools in a cycle shop ? or anybody
have a good on-line source.

chainreaction/wiggle online, you might find it a slight waste of cash
though, as they don't sell anthing with a cup and cone design any more, so
if yoy dump that bike you will never use the tools again.

Steve

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about
10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

I'm not sure that you'll be able to adjust it, unless it is REALLY old.
They have been sealed units for 20 years or so now, approx £15 upwards
for a new one.
You'll need to take the old one out first, as there are many different
lengths and offset combinations.
Alan.


I'm assuming it is adjustable as the Muddy Fox manual shows a very simple
drawing of the crank axle .. a ball race and an adjustable cup, held in
place in the bottom bracket by a 'lock ring'

The manual does not give much detail other than saying use a lockring tool
to loosen lock ring and adjust cup with the correct tool.

Bike is at least 21 years old.

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

The chain set is a Shimano 400LX (in case it makes a difference).

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by using
a locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.
Is it this simple or do I need a bit more information ?

Should I just adjust it to remove play, or should I look at stripping down
completely - clean & re-grease (never been done before on bike - and it's
21 yrs old)

Am I right to assume I can buy the 2 tools in a cycle shop ? or anybody
have a good on-line source.

I agree with other posters that you'll get all the help you need from one of
the cycling forums - I subscribe to uk.rec.cycling and they're a really
helpful bunch. However, rather than try to adjust your existing bottom
bracket which is likely to be badly worn, you might think about replacing it
with the modern cartridge equivalent. The left hand cup and lock ring should
be easily removeable with fairly rudimentary tools unless they're rusted in,
but the right hand cup is much more difficult to remove (right-hand thread
as well!) and may require a visit to your local cycle shop unless you want
to splash out on the special tool. Another (cheap) tool is required to
insert the new cartridge BB, but is a better long-term bet than your
existing set-up. Measuring your existing axle should give you a good idea
about the size of cartridge BB you need, but your local bike shop will
usually help if you ask nicely. If you want to buy on-line, Ribble Cycles
(Preston) are about the cheapest around, but a Google search will throw up
plenty of alternatives if you want a closer one.

John Miller

"John Miller" wrote in message
...

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...
I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

The chain set is a Shimano 400LX (in case it makes a difference).

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by
using a locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.
Is it this simple or do I need a bit more information ?

Should I just adjust it to remove play, or should I look at stripping
down completely - clean & re-grease (never been done before on bike -
and it's 21 yrs old)

Am I right to assume I can buy the 2 tools in a cycle shop ? or anybody
have a good on-line source.

I agree with other posters that you'll get all the help you need from one
of the cycling forums - I subscribe to uk.rec.cycling and they're a really
helpful bunch. However, rather than try to adjust your existing bottom
bracket which is likely to be badly worn, you might think about replacing
it with the modern cartridge equivalent. The left hand cup and lock ring
should be easily removeable with fairly rudimentary tools unless they're
rusted in, but the right hand cup is much more difficult to remove
(right-hand thread as well!) and may require a visit to your local cycle
shop unless you want to splash out on the special tool. Another (cheap)
tool is required to insert the new cartridge BB, but is a better long-term
bet than your existing set-up. Measuring your existing axle should give
you a good idea about the size of cartridge BB you need, but your local
bike shop will usually help if you ask nicely. If you want to buy on-line,
Ribble Cycles (Preston) are about the cheapest around, but a Google search
will throw up plenty of alternatives if you want a closer one.


My bottom bracket went recently - at the end of the day it was about £45 all
in to have the cartridge changed in the local bike shop (shout out for Pedal
Power in Abingdon - old fashioned father and son business). If you take it
in and ask a decent shop will give you all the answers you need.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:36:55 +0000, Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about 10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

The chain set is a Shimano 400LX (in case it makes a difference).

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by using a
locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.
Is it this simple or do I need a bit more information ?

Should I just adjust it to remove play, or should I look at stripping down
completely - clean & re-grease (never been done before on bike - and it's
21 yrs old)

Am I right to assume I can buy the 2 tools in a cycle shop ? or anybody
have a good on-line source.

=========================================
Haynes do quite a good manual for bikes ('The Bike book' - £14-99p,
and there's a good description of this job and the tools required.
Halfords is probably the best source for the required tools and the Haynes
manual which is quite comprehensive.

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so you'll
need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at less
than half the Draper price.

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

On Feb 25, 10:15*am, Cicero wrote:

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so you'll
need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at less
than half the Draper price.

Is that a recommendation for Draper, or an indication that it will be
even lower quality?

MBQ

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:20:11 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:

On Feb 25, 10:15*am, Cicero wrote:

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so
you'll need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at
less than half the Draper price.

Is that a recommendation for Draper, or an indication that it will be
even lower quality?

MBQ

==========================================

Most people here who have bought tools at Lidl are agreeably surprised at
the high quality and this particular bicycle tool kit maintains that
generally high standard.

If Draper tools are as poor as your trite comment would suggest it seems
odd that they've been such a successful company for so long.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

"John Miller" wrote in message
...


I agree with other posters that you'll get all the help you need from one
of the cycling forums - I subscribe to uk.rec.cycling

Thnx ... I'll ask same Q's there.

"Cicero" wrote in message
news

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so you'll
need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at less
than half the Draper price.

Cic.


If this a box kit, or tool roll ?

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 10:15 am, Cicero wrote:

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so you'll
need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at less
than half the Draper price.

Is that a recommendation for Draper, or an indication that it will be
even lower quality?

MBQ


I have a number of Draper tools - always found them good enough quality ...

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:20:11 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:

On Feb 25, 10:15 am, Cicero wrote:

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so
you'll need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at
less than half the Draper price.

Is that a recommendation for Draper, or an indication that it will be
even lower quality?

MBQ

==========================================

Most people here who have bought tools at Lidl are agreeably surprised at
the high quality and this particular bicycle tool kit maintains that
generally high standard.

If Draper tools are as poor as your trite comment would suggest it seems
odd that they've been such a successful company for so long.

Cic.
--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================


When I were a lad I would strip a bottom bracket just for something to do.
The tool for unlocking the ring is like a curved hook - but you may be able
to tap it loose with a soft drift. Personally, I would hate to feel any play
in the bearing. It is possible that water has got in and caused some rusting
and pitting if it has never been serviced (like I did when I were a lad). In
this case a cartridge type may suit you.

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about
10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

I'm not sure that you'll be able to adjust it, unless it is REALLY old.
They have been sealed units for 20 years or so now, approx £15 upwards
for a new one.
You'll need to take the old one out first, as there are many different
lengths and offset combinations.
Alan.



My bottom bracket is in the following pic if that helps identify the type.
http://tinyurl.com/cbdo8o

In the simple Muddy Fox manual it showed a pin adjustable cup ... although
on mine it has what appears to be a lug that can be adjusted with a spanner.

For the fun of it I loosened the locking ring (hammer & parallel punch) and
took up the play by aprox 1/8th turn of the 'lug' .... all seems fine.

I would like to strip it fully, clean out old grease and re-grease ... but
had to park that idea as could not get the crank off the axle .... holding
nut came off easily, but the square taper crank certainly does not want to
come free .....
Pullers I have would not get a good grip ... I'll see what I can borrow.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:57:45 +0000, Rick Hughes wrote:


"Cicero" wrote in message
news

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so
you'll need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at
less than half the Draper price.

Cic.


If this a box kit, or tool roll ?

=========================================

This is the one although Lidl's price is better:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/37-pc-cycle-to...photoh osting

http://tinyurl.com/bg2yp5

Cic.

--
==========================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
==========================================

Rick Hughes wrote:

"Man at B&Q" wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 10:15 am, Cicero wrote:

If you intend doing more maintenance look in Lidl for a very good
bicycle tool kit ('Powerfix' - £19-99p). It's not often there so you'll
need to watch for it but it appears to be re-branded Draper at less
than half the Draper price.

Is that a recommendation for Draper, or an indication that it will be
even lower quality?

MBQ


I have a number of Draper tools - always found them good enough quality ...

Of all the years that I have been a fitter in engineering, I have found
that Draper tools are adequate for run of the mill jobs. I have only
ever cracked and broken one quarter drive socket and I was giving it
some stick, after grinding down the end of the socket so as to fit into
a tight place. It cracked through where I had ground it down. I wasn't
using a Draper ratchet at the time though, so I pushed my luck a bit.

For general DIY work, they are adequate, but put them under intense
pressure, then you will break them. Particularly the ratchet. It has a
fine ratchet wheel in it and can be damaged by too much leverage being
applied to it.

HTH

Dave

On 24 Feb, 20:36, "Rick Hughes" wrote:

The very simple manual I have which came with bike says to adjust by using a
locking tool to slacken lock ring and adjust the adjustable cup.

Fit a new cheap Shimano sealed BB. They last for years and years,
never give trouble and are pretty cheap. Their biggest advantage is
better dirt sealing, so a sealed BB outlasts an adjustable every time.

You need a magic tool, and this can vary according to model. They're
only a few quid though. Try a Park one from Edinburgh Bike or Wiggles
mail order

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message
...

"A.Lee" wrote in message
...
Rick Hughes wrote:

I have an old but working fine, Muddy Fox Mountain Bike ... after about
10
years of no use ... I want to service it and use again.

Noticed that if I hold crank and frame down tube I can move it, which I
assume is what is referred to as 'play' in bottom bracket.
The play is not much a few mm only .... so I assume that adjustment is
probably all it needs.

I'm not sure that you'll be able to adjust it, unless it is REALLY old.
They have been sealed units for 20 years or so now, approx £15 upwards
for a new one.
You'll need to take the old one out first, as there are many different
lengths and offset combinations.
Alan.



My bottom bracket is in the following pic if that helps identify the type.
http://tinyurl.com/cbdo8o

In the simple Muddy Fox manual it showed a pin adjustable cup ... although
on mine it has what appears to be a lug that can be adjusted with a
spanner.

For the fun of it I loosened the locking ring (hammer & parallel punch)
and took up the play by aprox 1/8th turn of the 'lug' .... all seems fine.

I would like to strip it fully, clean out old grease and re-grease ... but
had to park that idea as could not get the crank off the axle .... holding
nut came off easily, but the square taper crank certainly does not want to
come free .....
Pullers I have would not get a good grip ... I'll see what I can borrow.

You need a special puller called a crank extractor. TBH it's one of those
jobs that's best just handed over to the bike shop - my bike shop fit stuff
for free, whereas the tools to do the job would easily be £20 on top of a
£15 bottom bracket.

"Doki" wrote in message
...

I would like to strip it fully, clean out old grease and re-grease ...
but had to park that idea as could not get the crank off the axle ....
holding nut came off easily, but the square taper crank certainly does
not want to come free .....
Pullers I have would not get a good grip ... I'll see what I can borrow.

You need a special puller called a crank extractor. TBH it's one of those
jobs that's best just handed over to the bike shop - my bike shop fit
stuff for free, whereas the tools to do the job would easily be £20 on top
of a £15 bottom bracket.

Depending on tool-fetishness and availability of such a friendly LBS - a
fitting fee for a BB would be more common than not IME. Crank extractor is
one of the tools any bike mechanic should have.

On Feb 26, 3:52*pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Doki" wrote in message

...

I would like to strip it fully, clean out old grease and re-grease ...
but had to park that idea as could not get the crank off the axle ....
holding nut came off easily, but the square taper crank certainly does
not want to come free .....
Pullers I have would not get a good grip ... I'll see what I can borrow.

You need a special puller called a crank extractor. TBH it's one of those
jobs that's best just handed over to the bike shop - my bike shop fit
stuff for free, whereas the tools to do the job would easily be £20 on top
of a £15 bottom bracket.

Depending on tool-fetishness and availability of such a friendly LBS - a
fitting fee for a BB would be more common than not IME. Crank extractor is
one of the tools any bike mechanic should have.

Bikes are Best! I sill have a Muddy Fox Courier but haven't ridden it
for years - these days it's replace rather than re-grease Good luck

"Clive George" wrote in message
et...
"Doki" wrote in message
...

I would like to strip it fully, clean out old grease and re-grease ...
but had to park that idea as could not get the crank off the axle ....
holding nut came off easily, but the square taper crank certainly does
not want to come free .....
Pullers I have would not get a good grip ... I'll see what I can borrow.

You need a special puller called a crank extractor. TBH it's one of those
jobs that's best just handed over to the bike shop - my bike shop fit
stuff for free, whereas the tools to do the job would easily be £20 on
top of a £15 bottom bracket.

Depending on tool-fetishness and availability of such a friendly LBS - a
fitting fee for a BB would be more common than not IME. Crank extractor is
one of the tools any bike mechanic should have.

Bought one in Halfords for £9 ....

BB adjusted up a treat ... will fully strip down and clean out old grease on
weekend.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 26, 3:52 pm, "Clive George" wrote:
"Doki" wrote in message

...



Depending on tool-fetishness and availability of such a friendly LBS - a
fitting fee for a BB would be more common than not IME. Crank extractor is
one of the tools any bike mechanic should have.

Bikes are Best! I sill have a Muddy Fox Courier but haven't ridden it
for years - these days it's replace rather than re-grease Good luck


yep .. mine is a Muddy Fox Courier Comp .... still looks like new, so this
'service' is just to keep it that way.
although I do have a gel saddle rather than original knife edge.