Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.

It's been very good, just two thermocouples and a new pump in all
those years.

The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I did ido the complete original installation.

The boiler supplies to sets of manifolds, each one controlled by a two
port motorised valve, each valve controlled by a room thermostat, one
for upstairs and one for downstairs, essentially a two zone system, 3
if you include the hot water system.

My proposed plan is to keep the two zone system as it is, each
radiator is fed from the manifolds with 10mm copper pipe, with normal
valves, not TRVs.

So replace the boiler and flue, provide new 15mm cold water supply,
new 15mm hot supply to existing hot water distribution in the house.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

At the moment the wiring is, live to the thermostats, then to the end
switches of the motorised valves, so if any of the valves open a
supply is sent to the boiler/pump.

Will I be ok to reuse my existing system?

Am I allowed to do all the non CORGI work myself.

Not sure which boiler to go for yet, any suggestions/recommendations,
three bedroom detached, boiler in garage.

thanks for reading, any help/suggestions appreciated

al

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:51:33 +0000, al simpson wrote:

Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.
....
The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I am a plumbing and heating engineer. Should be OK to do my own consumer
unit then?


My proposed plan is to keep the two zone system as it is, each
radiator is fed from the manifolds with 10mm copper pipe, with normal
valves, not TRVs.

Building regs will require addition of TRVs to at least some of the rads.
I'd do all except the one(s) in the room(s) with the thermostat(s).

So replace the boiler and flue, provide new 15mm cold water supply,
new 15mm hot supply to existing hot water distribution in the house.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to connect (& leave
connected) a gas supply to an appliance that hasn't been commissioned. So
who's going to do the commissioning? If the CORGI man does that he's
basically accepting liability for anything in that installation that may
turn out to be wrong. Some installers value their ticket more than to do
that. Suggest you discuss with your installer now exactly what they're
happy for you to do and what they need to do, rather than trying to get
someone in after the event.

You know, like you'd want a customer to discuss with you before replacing
their CU just what it is you're going to sign an EIC for :-)



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The clairvoyants' meeting has been cancelled due to unforseen circumstances.

YAPH wrote:
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:51:33 +0000, al simpson wrote:

Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.
...
The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I am a plumbing and heating engineer. Should be OK to do my own
consumer unit then?


I'm a groundworker who lays drives for a living but it didn't stop me
fitting a new condensing boiler in my house


My proposed plan is to keep the two zone system as it is, each
radiator is fed from the manifolds with 10mm copper pipe, with normal
valves, not TRVs.

Building regs will require addition of TRVs to at least some of the
rads. I'd do all except the one(s) in the room(s) with the
thermostat(s).

So replace the boiler and flue, provide new 15mm cold water supply,
new 15mm hot supply to existing hot water distribution in the house.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to connect (& leave
connected) a gas supply to an appliance that hasn't been
commissioned. So who's going to do the commissioning? If the CORGI
man does that he's basically accepting liability for anything in that
installation that may turn out to be wrong. Some installers value
their ticket more than to do that. Suggest you discuss with your
installer now exactly what they're happy for you to do and what they
need to do, rather than trying to get someone in after the event.

You know, like you'd want a customer to discuss with you before
replacing their CU just what it is you're going to sign an EIC for :-)

Or he could just fit the entire thing himself? - if he's capable of turning
off the gas at the meter and soldering a few joints, he's capable of doing
all the work and bollox to CORGI.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:51:33 +0000, al simpson wrote:

Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.

It's been very good, just two thermocouples and a new pump in all those
years.

The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old boiler
and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I did ido the complete original installation.

The boiler supplies to sets of manifolds, each one controlled by a two
port motorised valve, each valve controlled by a room thermostat, one
for upstairs and one for downstairs, essentially a two zone system, 3 if
you include the hot water system.

My proposed plan is to keep the two zone system as it is, each radiator
is fed from the manifolds with 10mm copper pipe, with normal valves, not
TRVs.

So replace the boiler and flue, provide new 15mm cold water supply, new
15mm hot supply to existing hot water distribution in the house.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

At the moment the wiring is, live to the thermostats, then to the end
switches of the motorised valves, so if any of the valves open a supply
is sent to the boiler/pump.

Will I be ok to reuse my existing system?

Am I allowed to do all the non CORGI work myself.

Not sure which boiler to go for yet, any suggestions/recommendations,
three bedroom detached, boiler in garage.

thanks for reading, any help/suggestions appreciated

al

quite a few of your questions are covered in the GasFitting and Boiler
Choice FAQs.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"al simpson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.

It's been very good, just two thermocouples and a new pump in all
those years.

The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I did ido the complete original installation.

The boiler supplies to sets of manifolds, each one controlled by a two
port motorised valve, each valve controlled by a room thermostat, one
for upstairs and one for downstairs, essentially a two zone system, 3
if you include the hot water system.

My proposed plan is to keep the two zone system as it is, each
radiator is fed from the manifolds with 10mm copper pipe, with normal
valves, not TRVs.

So replace the boiler and flue, provide new 15mm cold water supply,
new 15mm hot supply to existing hot water distribution in the house.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

At the moment the wiring is, live to the thermostats, then to the end
switches of the motorised valves, so if any of the valves open a
supply is sent to the boiler/pump.

Will I be ok to reuse my existing system?

Am I allowed to do all the non CORGI work myself.

Yes. You can even do all the gas work.

Not sure which boiler to go for yet, any suggestions/recommendations,
three bedroom detached, boiler in garage.

What is the pressure and flow of the mains water? How many baths, showers,
etc.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:51:33 +0000, al simpson wrote:

Hi,

Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.
...
The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

I am a plumbing and heating engineer.

You are either one or the other. Not both. The two are very different
things.

Get CORGI man to reconnect.

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to
connect (& leave connected) a gas supply to an
appliance that hasn't been commissioned.

Please point to the law?

So who's going to do the commissioning?
If the CORGI man does that he's
basically accepting liability for anything in
that installation that may turn out to be wrong.

Not so. He connects the pipe. Tests and then leaves. On his bill he states
what he has done. He left a gas tight pipe only.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:21:42 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to
connect (& leave connected) a gas supply to an
appliance that hasn't been commissioned.

Please point to the law?

GSIUR regulation 33(2)
and corresponding ACOP

which you're famaliar with, I take it?


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Question Authority

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:21:42 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to
connect (& leave connected) a gas supply to an
appliance that hasn't been commissioned.

Please point to the law?

GSIUR regulation 33(2)
and corresponding ACOP

which you're famaliar with, I take it?

Not that bit. I doubt it actually states that.

In article ,
al simpson wrote:
Thinking it's time to replace my 21 year old boiler, this summer.

It's been very good, just two thermocouples and a new pump in all
those years.

The plan is to get a CORGI man to disconnect the gas from the old
boiler and then do the rest myself, after all I am an electrician.

If you are competent at gas work there's no need to get in a CORGI to
disconnect and make safe the gas supply. And anyone who is competent at
working with copper tube should be competent to cap off a gas pipe.

However, in practice you may well need one to commission the new boiler
since this might be a condition of the warranty.

But if you go down this route make sure *everything* in the installation
complies to current regs.

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
YAPH wrote:
I am a plumbing and heating engineer. Should be OK to do my own consumer
unit then?

Depends if you're competent. Plenty of DIYers are. Not much point in this
group if you think these sort of skills must be left to a pro.

However, to answer your actual question probably not - if most of the
wiring I've seen done by 'heating engineers' is representative. ;-)

--
*Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:51:33 +0000, al simpson
wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, did not intend to start an argument about
the installation.

The 'I am an electrician' was meant as a joke!!

I am very capable of doing the whole installation, but would not do
the gas, even though I feel confident about it.

My main point of the email was to see if the existing 2 zone,
motorised system would be suitable, or should I do away with it and
fit TRVs to all (except one) radiators.

Legally I am allowed to fit the boiler and do all the pipe-work?

Gas and commissioning will be done by a CORGI man.

Only two of us in the house, so only one hot tap would be in use at
any one time.

Is 15mm hot from the boiler ok, or would 22mm into the house be
better, boiler is on the outside wall of the attached garage.

Not sure of the MCWS pressure, seems to be very good though, we live
in a built-up populated area.

thanks

al

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I am a plumbing and heating engineer.

You are either one or the other. Not both. The two are very different
things.

So an individual can only have the one skill?

Explains your foibles nicely.

Care to give us details of which qualifications you possess?

--
*You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
I am a plumbing and heating engineer.

You are either one or the other. Not both. The two are very different
things.

So

Please eff off as you are an idiotic plantpot.

On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 01:59:12 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 22:21:42 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...

No can do (legally anyhow). It's against the law to
connect (& leave connected) a gas supply to an
appliance that hasn't been commissioned.

Please point to the law?

GSIUR regulation 33(2)
and corresponding ACOP

which you're famaliar with, I take it?

Not that bit. I doubt it actually states that.

Just ask a qualified and registered gas installer :-)

GSIUR http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982451.htm
Regulation 33

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

(1) Where a person installs a gas appliance at a time when gas is being
supplied to the premises in which the appliance is installed, he shall
immediately thereafter test its connection to the installation pipework to
verify that it is gastight and examine the appliance and the gas fittings
and other works for the supply of gas and any flue or means of ventilation
to be used in connection with the appliance for the purpose of
ascertaining whether -

(a) the appliance has been installed in accordance with these
Regulations;

(b) the operating pressure is as recommended by the manufacturer;

(c) the appliance has been installed with due regard to any
manufacturer's instructions provided to accompany the appliance; and

(d) all gas safety controls are in proper working order.

(2) Where a person carries out such testing and examination in relation to
a gas appliance and adjustments are necessary to ensure compliance with the
requirements specified in sub-paragraphs (a) to (d) of paragraph (1)
above, he shall either carry out those adjustments or disconnect the
appliance from the gas supply or seal off the appliance from the gas supply
with an appropriate fitting.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

"Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances"
APPROVED CODE OF PRACTICE AND GUIDANCE, HSE BOOKS ISBN 0 7176 1635 5

http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/gaswise/...004%20Regs.pdf

ACOP:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""

193 Once the commissioning of an appliance is started, it should be either
completed in full, leaving the appliance in a safe working condition,
or the appliance should be disconnected or the gas supply to the
appliance sealed off with an appropriate fitting, until tests
and examinations can be fully completed at a later date. See
also definition of 'appropriate fitting' in regulation 2(1).

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""""""""""""


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
and Pop Psychologists are from Uranus

On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:17:12 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

However, to answer your actual question probably not - if most of the
wiring I've seen done by 'heating engineers' is representative. ;-)

.... and gas installations by electricians? ;-)


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Thank God I'm an atheist

On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:17:12 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
YAPH wrote:
I am a plumbing and heating engineer. Should be OK to do my own consumer
unit then?

Depends if you're competent. Plenty of DIYers are. Not much point in this
group if you think these sort of skills must be left to a pro.

However, to answer your actual question probably not - if most of the
wiring I've seen done by 'heating engineers' is representative. ;-)

Indeed. I watched the 'HE' fumbling with the wiring and just took over - I
wanted some semblance of correct circuitry. They also had a hammer drill
that cut out intermittently, so I rewired it by removing about 8" at the
drill end and they were really pleased. The drill had been in that state
for several weeks and they had no idea of the cause - took me a few seconds
of wire-wiggling to find the place.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:11:20 +0000, al simpson wrote:

Thanks for all the replies, did not intend to start an argument about
the installation.

The 'I am an electrician' was meant as a joke!!

And I thought I was tongue in cheek ;-|

I am very capable of doing the whole installation, but would not do
the gas, even though I feel confident about it.

I just passed my 16th - 17th upgrade with one out of 30 answers wrong. I
think that makes me theoretically competent to do my own CU/rewire ... but
I know I don't have much practical experience.

My main point of the email was to see if the existing 2 zone,
motorised system would be suitable, or should I do away with it and
fit TRVs to all (except one) radiators.

TRVs to all but one, def-o. Zoned is good if it makes sense for you or if
it's mandated by the size of your house (over a certain floor area, can't
remember how much off the top of my head but basically swanky-sized houses).


Legally I am allowed to fit the boiler and do all the pipe-work?

Definitely not the gas pipework (even before it's connected to gas), grey
area on the flue & maybe even hanging the boiler. Water works OK.

Gas and commissioning will be done by a CORGI man.

I strongly recommend you find a CORGI man first, one who's happy to work
with you doing some of the work (some CORGIs are, some aren't) and agree
who does what. I've worked with people on this basis. Basically asking
someone to come in at the end of the job and commission a boiler you've
installed is like asking you to do an EIC for something I've installed.

Only two of us in the house, so only one hot tap would be in use at any
one time.

Is 15mm hot from the boiler ok, or would 22mm into the house be better,
boiler is on the outside wall of the attached garage.

The boiler will be the limitation on the HW flow rate, not the pipework:
15mm is fine.


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Women always generalise

In article ,
PeterC writes:
On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:17:12 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
YAPH wrote:
I am a plumbing and heating engineer. Should be OK to do my own consumer
unit then?

Depends if you're competent. Plenty of DIYers are. Not much point in this
group if you think these sort of skills must be left to a pro.

However, to answer your actual question probably not - if most of the
wiring I've seen done by 'heating engineers' is representative. ;-)

Indeed. I watched the 'HE' fumbling with the wiring and just took over - I
wanted some semblance of correct circuitry.

I've done the same around at a friends. The HE was clearly very
relieved when someone else dived in and took over the electrical
wiring. (Unfortunately, he'd already done the room stat before I
arrived, and that's got some T&E going into the back of the room
stat but flex coming out of the wall at the boiler, so I've no
idea what he's hidden behind the wall for that;-)

Some years ago, my parents had their boiler replaced (and I wasn't
around at the time). The HE in that case knew he didn't have a clue
about the wiring, and had an electrician he knew who came in for a
few hours to do all the wiring, who actually did a good job (and
fitted some missing service bonding for what seemed like a very
low fee at the time, although he was already there I suppose).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
YAPH wrote:
However, to answer your actual question probably not - if most of the
wiring I've seen done by 'heating engineers' is representative. ;-)

... and gas installations by electricians? ;-)

Dunno - in the normal course of events a sparks wouldn't need to touch
gas. Unlike a heating engineer installing a system - they will all have at
least some electrics. And given that most are pretty similar you'd think
they'd soon pick up the basic skills required - it's hardly rocket
science. Anymore than making a sound connection to copper tube.

--
*Two many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.