Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One which I
am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has no garage, so
I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the dining room, to create
a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the kitchen
will probably not be any more work than repairing the current one. Also the
back of the house, where all the work would be, still has the old single
glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has
no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the
kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still has
the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door, and
attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust fumes don't
percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has
no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting
the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still
has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need
replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door, and
attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust fumes don't
percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

Doesn't the garage floor have to be lower than the rest of the house's
floor?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money,
has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting
the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still
has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need
replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door, and
attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust fumes don't
percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

The door must be at least an 1/2 hour firecheck fitted with intumescent
strips (and I believe it can only be fitted into a separate hallway rather
than directly into a room) - and the job is subject to Building Control
regulations - and possibly planning ones as well.

Cash

SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has
no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the
kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still has
the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

I'd suggest phoning your local Building Control Officer. Ours are
extremely helpful and knowledgeable. If the house is one of many similar
ones, they will probably already know enough to advise you as to the
difficulty of conversion. You would, after all, have to get their
approval for such a project.

--
Sue

The door must be at least an 1/2 hour firecheck fitted with intumescent
strips (and I believe it can only be fitted into a separate hallway rather
than directly into a room) - and the job is subject to Building Control
regulations - and possibly planning ones as well.

Bugger, that might knacker some plans I had as well - we're a few
weeks away from completing on a repossessed house, and there's no
entry to the house via the garage at present.

We wanted to create one in a *perfectly* placed blank bit of wall into
the kitchen...

I wonder if a standard double-glazed front door would class as 1/2
hour fire resistant :-}

Colin Wilson wrote:
The door must be at least an 1/2 hour firecheck fitted with
intumescent strips (and I believe it can only be fitted into a
separate hallway rather than directly into a room) - and the job is
subject to Building Control regulations - and possibly planning ones
as well.

Bugger, that might knacker some plans I had as well - we're a few
weeks away from completing on a repossessed house, and there's no
entry to the house via the garage at present.

We wanted to create one in a *perfectly* placed blank bit of wall into
the kitchen...

I wonder if a standard double-glazed front door would class as 1/2
hour fire resistant :-}

Possibly [and only possibly], but only if fitted with georgian wired glass -
and the door and frame are *not* made of PVCu - and it would still not pass
building regs if it goes directly into the kitchen.

My advice would be to contact the Building Control Department of your local
council and initially get some general advice on the subject (to me, that
would be absolutely essential by the way) as you will also need to comply
with certain fire regulations.

Cash

SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has
no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the
kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still has
the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

The ceiling of the to be garage will need an extra layer of plasterboard
and skim to meet fire control requirements as well.

Moving a kitchen will probably involve electrics and hence stir the part
P dragon. Which if you need to involve building control anyway may not
be much of an issue.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John Rumm
writes
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.
What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?
I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has
no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the
dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting
the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still
has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need
replacing.

The ceiling of the to be garage will need an extra layer of
plasterboard and skim to meet fire control requirements as well.

Moving a kitchen will probably involve electrics and hence stir the
part P dragon. Which if you need to involve building control anyway may
not be much of an issue.


Don't forget we;re talking R of Ireland here ...

--
geoff

Possibly [and only possibly], but only if fitted with georgian wired glass -
and the door and frame are *not* made of PVCu - and it would still not pass
building regs if it goes directly into the kitchen.

It'd go into a bit of an ante-space with doors leading to the
downstairs WC and kitchen, but no door to a utility room.

My advice would be to contact the Building Control Department of your local
council and initially get some general advice on the subject (to me, that
would be absolutely essential by the way) as you will also need to comply
with certain fire regulations.

I've fired off an email to them with a rough floor plan, see what they
say... i've uploaded the same rough layout he

http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/layout.gif

geoff wrote:
In message , John Rumm
writes
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.
What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?
I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money,
has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into
the dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and
converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still
has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need
replacing.

The ceiling of the to be garage will need an extra layer of
plasterboard and skim to meet fire control requirements as well.

Moving a kitchen will probably involve electrics and hence stir the
part P dragon. Which if you need to involve building control anyway
may not be much of an issue.


Don't forget we;re talking R of Ireland here ...

Ah, if so scratch the part P nonsense. Still do the extra fire proofing
though!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Rod wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money,
has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into
the dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of thing, and
converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the current
one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would be, still
has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need
replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door, and
attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust fumes don't
percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

Doesn't the garage floor have to be lower than the rest of the house's
floor?

Why?


Thy generally ARE, because they are not damp proofed & above soil level
etc. etc.

Colin Wilson wrote:
The door must be at least an 1/2 hour firecheck fitted with intumescent
strips (and I believe it can only be fitted into a separate hallway rather
than directly into a room) - and the job is subject to Building Control
regulations - and possibly planning ones as well.

Bugger, that might knacker some plans I had as well - we're a few
weeks away from completing on a repossessed house, and there's no
entry to the house via the garage at present.


Not sure that the directly into a room is such and issue..but he could
be right

We wanted to create one in a *perfectly* placed blank bit of wall into
the kitchen...

I wonder if a standard double-glazed front door would class as 1/2
hour fire resistant :-}

Do you REALLY want to peer into yuur garage over breakfast?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Rod wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a
garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a
garage. One which I am looking at, which is going for the right
sort of money, has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the
current kitchen into the dining room, to create a kitchen diner
sort of thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage. The
house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the
current one. Also the back of the house, where all the work
would be, still has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames,
which will all need replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door,
and attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust
fumes don't percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

Doesn't the garage floor have to be lower than the rest of the
house's floor?

Why?


Thy generally ARE, because they are not damp proofed & above soil
level etc. etc.


In looking for the proper answer (rather than what I assumed), I found this:

"Self-Closing Devices will no longer be required in houses, with the
exception of the fire door between a house and an integral garage."

Then what I was looking for:

"An Integral Garage within a house currently requires a 100mm step to
prevent the spillage of fuel and vapours entering the dwelling. A new
alternative approach is to allow a sloping floor in the garage,
encouraging any spillage to run away from the internal door."

http://www.slough.gov.uk/documents/BC_spring2007.pdf

But on reading, could that step be a wall rather than a step down? I
remember there was a thread some time ago but have forgotten if that was
a valid interpretation.

However, I then read rest of thread and realised RoI... But the logic
applies, whether or not the actual regulations do.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Rod wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a
garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a
garage. One which I am looking at, which is going for the right
sort of money, has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the
current kitchen into the dining room, to create a kitchen diner
sort of thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage. The
house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the
current one. Also the back of the house, where all the work
would be, still has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames,
which will all need replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door,
and attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust
fumes don't percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

Doesn't the garage floor have to be lower than the rest of the
house's floor?

Why?


Thy generally ARE, because they are not damp proofed & above soil
level etc. etc.


In looking for the proper answer (rather than what I assumed), I found
this:

"Self-Closing Devices will no longer be required in houses, with the
exception of the fire door between a house and an integral garage."

Then what I was looking for:

"An Integral Garage within a house currently requires a 100mm step to
prevent the spillage of fuel and vapours entering the dwelling. A new
alternative approach is to allow a sloping floor in the garage,
encouraging any spillage to run away from the internal door."


I stand corrected..;-)

Didnt think anyone DID park oil tankers in their garages these days..


Sti'l chipping out the floor if its solid, and laying a new one a bit
lower, is no big deal.


http://www.slough.gov.uk/documents/BC_spring2007.pdf

But on reading, could that step be a wall rather than a step down? I
remember there was a thread some time ago but have forgotten if that was
a valid interpretation.


Ask the BCO...

However, I then read rest of thread and realised RoI... But the logic
applies, whether or not the actual regulations do.

In article , Colin
Wilson o.uk writes
Possibly [and only possibly], but only if fitted with georgian wired glass -
and the door and frame are *not* made of PVCu - and it would still not pass
building regs if it goes directly into the kitchen.

It'd go into a bit of an ante-space with doors leading to the
downstairs WC and kitchen, but no door to a utility room.

My advice would be to contact the Building Control Department of your local
council and initially get some general advice on the subject (to me, that
would be absolutely essential by the way) as you will also need to comply
with certain fire regulations.

I've fired off an email to them with a rough floor plan, see what they
say... i've uploaded the same rough layout he

http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/layout.gif

That's not a utility room, that's a corridor with a washing machine in
it ;-)

I've seen a similar situation in an architect designed house so imagine
it is ok, perhaps the prohibition is for entry into 'proper' rooms
(kitchen, lounge, bedroom etc).
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs

Don't forget we;re talking R of Ireland here ...

Who is? I'm certainly not, I'm talking England.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Colin Wilson wrote:
The door must be at least an 1/2 hour firecheck fitted with
intumescent strips (and I believe it can only be fitted into a
separate hallway rather than directly into a room) - and the job
is subject to Building Control regulations - and possibly planning
ones as well.

Bugger, that might knacker some plans I had as well - we're a few
weeks away from completing on a repossessed house, and there's no
entry to the house via the garage at present.


Not sure that the directly into a room is such and issue..but he could
be right

Thank you for that - and I won't be too far off right! ROTFL

Cash

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Rod wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
SimonJ wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage.
One which I am looking at, which is going for the right sort of
money, has no garage, so I am thinking of moving the current
kitchen into the dining room, to create a kitchen diner sort of
thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen will probably not be any more work than repairing the
current one. Also the back of the house, where all the work would
be, still has the old single glazed wooden/rotten frames, which
will all need replacing.

Not much work at all.

Steel lintel inserted below any first floor stuff over the door, and
attention to gas and soundproofing the garage so exhaust fumes don't
percolate upwards.

And probably a new door into rest of the house.

Doesn't the garage floor have to be lower than the rest of the
house's floor?

Why?


Thy generally ARE, because they are not damp proofed & above soil
level etc. etc.

Not really - it's to do with the spilling of flamable liquids - and in the
case of a car powered by LPG, if there there is a leak there, the gas being
heavier than air will sink down below the level of the house floor lessening
the risk of an explosion.

Put succinctly - its part of the fire regs for attached garages.

Cash

I wonder if a standard double-glazed front door would class as 1/2
hour fire resistant :-}
Do you REALLY want to peer into yuur garage over breakfast?

No, it wouldn't be in direct line of sight unless you had the kitchen
door open - the dining room is on the other side of the kitchen.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember geoff saying
something like:

Don't forget we;re talking R of Ireland here ...

The OP? I don't see any sign of it.

On 31 Jan, 21:58, "SimonJ" wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One which I
am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has no garage, so
I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the dining room, to create
a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the kitchen
will probably not be any more work than repairing the current one. Also the
back of the house, where all the work would be, still has the old single
glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

Sounds crazy to me, most people do the reverse to gain extra space for
their familes not less. Apart from anything else you will devalue the
house let alone the practicality issues of which there are numerous.
If you insist on going ahead I would recommend that you contact a
local architectural designer. Many offer free advisory visits and
will give you an honest opinion of the implications and pitfalls of
such a strange proposal.

"AJH" wrote in message
...
On 31 Jan, 21:58, "SimonJ" wrote:
Hi All.

What are the practicalities of converting a kitchen into a garage?

I am looking to buy a house, and have to have one with a garage. One
which I
am looking at, which is going for the right sort of money, has no garage,
so
I am thinking of moving the current kitchen into the dining room, to
create
a kitchen diner sort of thing, and converting the kitchen to a garage.
The house is in need of fairly extensive renovation, so moving the
kitchen
will probably not be any more work than repairing the current one. Also
the
back of the house, where all the work would be, still has the old single
glazed wooden/rotten frames, which will all need replacing.

Sounds crazy to me, most people do the reverse to gain extra space for
their familes not less. Apart from anything else you will devalue the
house let alone the practicality issues of which there are numerous.
If you insist on going ahead I would recommend that you contact a
local architectural designer. Many offer free advisory visits and
will give you an honest opinion of the implications and pitfalls of
such a strange proposal.

yes, it is totally the opposite of what most people do, hence the lack of
information on the practicalities of it.

The situation I am in means I do not need space in the house, but I do need
a decent working area, my ideal dwelling would be a studio flat with a
double garage, and you don't get too many of those coming onto the market!

The house which I am considering is at the right price, I would pay probably
50% more for a house with a garage, so devaluing the place is not an issue,
I will still be quids in compared to buying somewhere with a garage. Even
places which I looked at with room for a garage are far more that the house
I am looking at.

"SimonJ" wrote in message
...

The situation I am in means I do not need space in the house, but I do
need a decent working area, my ideal dwelling would be a studio flat with
a double garage, and you don't get too many of those coming onto the
market!

The house which I am considering is at the right price, I would pay
probably 50% more for a house with a garage, so devaluing the place is not
an issue, I will still be quids in compared to buying somewhere with a
garage. Even places which I looked at with room for a garage are far more
that the house I am looking at.




Rent a lock-up or small industrial unit?
They will be cheap soon.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
SimonJ wrote:


The situation I am in means I do not need space in the house, but I
do need a decent working area, my ideal dwelling would be a studio
flat with a double garage, and you don't get too many of those coming
onto the market!

So does it actually need to be a garage with vehicular access? If not, why
not just designate a room as a work-room?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 31 Jan, 23:15, "Cash"
wrote:

(and I believe it can only be fitted into a separate hallway rather
than directly into a room)

I've just had my house extended, my garage now opens directly into my
study. Previously it opened into the dining room, so I'm pretty sure
this is not the case.

http://www.coreutilities.co.uk/layout.gif
That's exactly the layout I have, which passed BRs, alas 22 years ago. 1/2
hour fire door required, and 150mm step down into the garage. Ceiling had to
be 1/2 hour fire resistant, 12.5 PB and skim, or two (staggered) layers of
9.5mm PB.

Thanks for the feedback - as it's already a garage, the ceiling should
probably already be up to spec (although you wouldn't think it when
you see the master bedroom above it, as you can see through to the
garage through the edge of the skirting where the consumer unit is) -
and there's no issue over allowing a step :-)

The situation I am in means I do not need space in the house, but I
do need a decent working area, my ideal dwelling would be a studio
flat with a double garage, and you don't get too many of those coming
onto the market!

So does it actually need to be a garage with vehicular access?

Well it wouldn't really be a garage if not!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
SimonJ wrote:

The situation I am in means I do not need space in the house, but I
do need a decent working area, my ideal dwelling would be a studio
flat with a double garage, and you don't get too many of those
coming onto the market!

So does it actually need to be a garage with vehicular access?

Well it wouldn't really be a garage if not!

True - but there are many "decent working areas" (your term) which are not
garages - hence my question. Garages are used for all sorts of things other
than storing vehicles, but have to comply with stringent fire regs etc.
because they *could* hold vehicles. If you don't need to (and you haven't
explicitly said that you *do*) make it so that you *can't*, and you won't
then have to comply with these particular regs.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

I've fired off an email to them with a rough floor plan, see what they
say...

Reply received as follows:


You would need to submit a building regulation application for the
alteration, as it comprises work as described under the Building
Regulations.

If the garage is to be retained as a garage you would need to fit a
Fire Door and frame.

The work could be done on a Building Notice you can find further info
on the (council).gov.uk website.