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Using green/yellow as switched live
My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the
green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. The core has been marked, (with red rather than brown tape, but that is another issue!). Previous posts in this group seriously depricate this practice - in my opinion with very good reason. The question is though, can anyone point me at a specific regulation that prohibits using a sleeved green/yellow cable as a live? Note: this is a flexible cable so the 'earth' has the same CSA as the other conductors. I'd like to be able to throw this back at the plumbers with a definite regulation to quote at them... Mike |
Using green/yellow as switched live
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Using green/yellow as switched live
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Using green/yellow as switched live
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. -- Peter. You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion? It's not rocket science, you know. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article , PeterC
writes On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. You are right to say that only refers to the colour but sleeving in another colour does not make it ok. There is a separate requirement that current carrying conductors require basic insulation on the conductor and supplementary insulation (the sheath). Using a bare protective conductor as a switched live (or neutral) will breach this. Sorry, no access to regs to provide the cite, but it will be there somewhere. -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Using green/yellow as switched live
PeterC coughed up some electrons that declared:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. I must disagree Peter. The difference betwen this and sleeving a black or blue as phase, is that black or blue are to be regarded as "live" at all times anyway, even if they are a neutral. The consequences of wiring a neutral conductor to phase is most often that something doesn't work, or a short circuit which trips the breaker. The CPC is a special case, because if someone breaks into it later (as you mention) or the sleeve falls off, then the consequences of mis-identifying it are "unsafe", rather than "doesn't work". Cheers Tim |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article
, wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. The core has been marked, (with red rather than brown tape, but that is another issue!). Previous posts in this group seriously depricate this practice - in my opinion with very good reason. The question is though, can anyone point me at a specific regulation that prohibits using a sleeved green/yellow cable as a live? Note: this is a flexible cable so the 'earth' has the same CSA as the other conductors. I'd like to be able to throw this back at the plumbers with a definite regulation to quote at them... Others have given the appropriate regs - but it really does show a lack of pride in workmanship and or penny pinching given that suitable flex is so easily available. -- *A nest isn't empty until all their stuff is out of the attic Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Jan 23, 10:02*am, fred wrote:
In article , PeterC writes On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. You are right to say that only refers to the colour but sleeving in another colour does not make it ok. There is a separate requirement that current carrying conductors require basic insulation on the conductor and supplementary insulation (the sheath). Using a bare protective conductor as a switched live (or neutral) will breach this. What relevance does that have to the OPs question? The clue is there if youread it properly. MBQ |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 04:14:54 -0800, Man at B&Q wrote:
On Jan 23, 10:02*am, fred wrote: In article , PeterC writes On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. You are right to say that only refers to the colour but sleeving in another colour does not make it ok. There is a separate requirement that current carrying conductors require basic insulation on the conductor and supplementary insulation (the sheath). Using a bare protective conductor as a switched live (or neutral) will breach this. What relevance does that have to the OPs question? The clue is there if youread it properly. MBQ ========================================= I'm a bit confused by the OP's post. Can you actually buy three core cable with the earth wire separately insulated in the same way as the other two cores are insulated? I understood Fred's post to indicate that the earth is always a bare conductor in twin and earth cable whereas the OP's post suggests that his cable includes a fully insulated green/yellow earth. Cic. -- ========================================== Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door ========================================== |
Using green/yellow as switched live
Cicero coughed up some electrons that declared:
========================================= I'm a bit confused by the OP's post. Can you actually buy three core cable with the earth wire separately insulated in the same way as the other two cores are insulated? I understood Fred's post to indicate that the earth is always a bare conductor in twin and earth cable whereas the OP's post suggests that his cable includes a fully insulated green/yellow earth. It's probably flex, based on the fact that heating is involved. I suspect it the flex going up to either the hall stat which probably wants E, L, Switched-L *and* neutral for the bias heater. Or it could be the flex going to the programmer and the bloke only had 4 core, when he needed 5 or whatever. Cheers Tim |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article ,
Tim S writes: coughed up some electrons that declared: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. Then he's not a proper sparky. You never EVER use green/yellow for anything other than an earth/CPC. Andy's already quoted the regulation, but AFAIC that's a reportable offence because all right thinking people expect G/Y to be safe. I agree it's not allowed and is bad practise, but it is extremely common, particularly in heating circuits, and there are clearly a large number of electricians who don't think there's anything wrong with it. I came across it in some streetlamp circuits which would have been professionally wired too -- standard 3-core had been used to the NEMA photocell socket, with the earth used for the switched live return in all of them. Should someone come along later, unwire it and put it back from one end only, it would be quite easy for them to connect it back to an earth terminal, possibly rendering some extraneous conductive part live. Also - if he's used the CPC for live, is anything providing an earth to the thing on the end of the cable? Also, if there's no earth in the cable, accidentally slicing through the cable might not blow a fuse/RCD and disconnect the supply. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:07:15 +0000, Tim S wrote:
Cicero coughed up some electrons that declared: ========================================= I'm a bit confused by the OP's post. Can you actually buy three core cable with the earth wire separately insulated in the same way as the other two cores are insulated? I understood Fred's post to indicate that the earth is always a bare conductor in twin and earth cable whereas the OP's post suggests that his cable includes a fully insulated green/yellow earth. It's probably flex, based on the fact that heating is involved. I suspect it the flex going up to either the hall stat which probably wants E, L, Switched-L *and* neutral for the bias heater. Or it could be the flex going to the programmer and the bloke only had 4 core, when he needed 5 or whatever. Cheers Tim ========================================= Thanks, that explains it. Cic. -- ========================================== Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door ========================================== |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article
, Man at B&Q writes On Jan 23, 10:02*am, fred wrote: In article , PeterC writes On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 08:36:40 +0000, Andy Burns wrote: wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." That refers only to the colour, so if the wire is sleeved red or brown it should be OK - until someone breaks in to it elsewhere! I prefer red for switched Live as it identifies it. You are right to say that only refers to the colour but sleeving in another colour does not make it ok. There is a separate requirement that current carrying conductors require basic insulation on the conductor and supplementary insulation (the sheath). Using a bare protective conductor as a switched live (or neutral) will breach this. What relevance does that have to the OPs question? The clue is there if youread it properly. Ah, there speaks a man who never misread a question and has never made a mistake, I bow before your perfection. My mistake acknowledged, Andy Burns answer is true and complete. -- fred BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs |
Using green/yellow as switched live
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message ... In article , Tim S writes: coughed up some electrons that declared: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. Then he's not a proper sparky. You never EVER use green/yellow for anything other than an earth/CPC. Andy's already quoted the regulation, but AFAIC that's a reportable offence because all right thinking people expect G/Y to be safe. I agree it's not allowed and is bad practise, but it is extremely common, particularly in heating circuits, and there are clearly a large number of electricians who don't think there's anything wrong with it. I came across it in some streetlamp circuits which would have been professionally wired too -- standard 3-core had been used to the NEMA photocell socket, with the earth used for the switched live return in all of them. Should someone come along later, unwire it and put it back from one end only, it would be quite easy for them to connect it back to an earth terminal, possibly rendering some extraneous conductive part live. Also - if he's used the CPC for live, is anything providing an earth to the thing on the end of the cable? Also, if there's no earth in the cable, accidentally slicing through the cable might not blow a fuse/RCD and disconnect the supply. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] Clearly some confusion between "Cable" and "Flex". If flex was used as seems likely then is this another error? |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article , Andy Burns
scribeth thus wrote: My plumbers sparky has installed my heating system, but has used the green/yellow wire in one cable as a switched live. BS7671:2008 Regulation 514.4.2 "The bi-colour combination green-and-yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose." Bloody stupid old bodger!, what else has he bodged up?... U should get someone else to put it right and deduct it from the invoice!.. Wouldn't want him back!.. And what was all this part P for?... -- Tony Sayer |
Using green/yellow as switched live
John wrote:
Clearly some confusion between "Cable" and "Flex". If flex was used as seems likely then is this another error? "Flexible cable" was what he said. Andy |
Using green/yellow as switched live
Sorry for the confusion - It is flex!
The wiring in question is approx 2m length between the wiring centre and the boiler. I guess the guy didn't have any multi-core cable and so has used 2 x 3 cores instead. One carries L/N/E from the wiring centre to the boiler. The other carries SWITCHED LIVE to the boiler and L/N from the boiler to the pump (via wiring centre). IIRC it is the pump live that is carried on the green/yellow wire. Incidentally the boiler manual is here; http://tinyurl.com/dcsy8q . Page 34 shows the pump L & N fed from the boiler, but I can't see any reason why the N couldn't be taken locally from the wiring centre... or is there normally some reason why both L & N would need to be fed from the boiler PCB? Mike |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article
, wrote: he wiring in question is approx 2m length between the wiring centre and the boiler. I guess the guy didn't have any multi-core cable and so has used 2 x 3 cores instead. Common plumber's trick when wiring boilers. Why buy two reels of cable when one will do. And why change the habit of a lifetime. It works, doesn't it? ;-( -- *Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:28:23 -0800, mike.peppert wrote:
Sorry for the confusion - It is flex! The wiring in question is approx 2m length between the wiring centre and the boiler. I guess the guy didn't have any multi-core cable and so has used 2 x 3 cores instead. One carries L/N/E from the wiring centre to the boiler. The other carries SWITCHED LIVE to the boiler and L/N from the boiler to the pump (via wiring centre). IIRC it is the pump live that is carried on the green/yellow wire. Incidentally the boiler manual is here; http://tinyurl.com/dcsy8q . Page 34 shows the pump L & N fed from the boiler, but I can't see any reason why the N couldn't be taken locally from the wiring centre... or is there normally some reason why both L & N would need to be fed from the boiler PCB? Mike This bad practice is very very common. (50% of all installations?) Given that the boiler has provision for more than one cable entry the installer could have used a second flex to provide the extra signal. Why should the good guys carry multi-core control cable around to do a proper job when this guy thinks he can bend the rules. It's not as if he had to do significant extra work to get it right. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:13:52 UTC, Ed Sirett
wrote: This bad practice is very very common. (50% of all installations?) Given that the boiler has provision for more than one cable entry the installer could have used a second flex to provide the extra signal. Why should the good guys carry multi-core control cable around to do a proper job when this guy thinks he can bend the rules. It's not as if he had to do significant extra work to get it right. When we had our boiler replaced a while ago, I took the opportunity to fix the rather bad electrics that were there before. By the time the guy arrived to fit, I'd already downloaded and read the manual, and started on the new permanent cabling. The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:13:52 UTC, Ed Sirett wrote: This bad practice is very very common. (50% of all installations?) Given that the boiler has provision for more than one cable entry the installer could have used a second flex to provide the extra signal. Why should the good guys carry multi-core control cable around to do a proper job when this guy thinks he can bend the rules. It's not as if he had to do significant extra work to get it right. When we had our boiler replaced a while ago, I took the opportunity to fix the rather bad electrics that were there before. By the time the guy arrived to fit, I'd already downloaded and read the manual, and started on the new permanent cabling. The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! Both screwfix and tollstation do suitable flex. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
Using green/yellow as switched live
wrote in message ... Sorry for the confusion - It is flex! The wiring in question is approx 2m length between the wiring centre and the boiler. I guess the guy didn't have any multi-core cable and so has used 2 x 3 cores instead. One carries L/N/E from the wiring centre to the boiler. The other carries SWITCHED LIVE to the boiler and L/N from the boiler to the pump (via wiring centre). IIRC it is the pump live that is carried on the green/yellow wire. Incidentally the boiler manual is here; http://tinyurl.com/dcsy8q . Page 34 shows the pump L & N fed from the boiler, but I can't see any reason why the N couldn't be taken locally from the wiring centre... or is there normally some reason why both L & N would need to be fed from the boiler PCB? Mike The neutral connection on the boiler for the pump is there for convenience. A neutral may be taken from the wiring centre if you wish to do so. Adam |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:32:09 UTC, Ed Sirett
wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 +0000, Bob Eager wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:13:52 UTC, Ed Sirett wrote: This bad practice is very very common. (50% of all installations?) Given that the boiler has provision for more than one cable entry the installer could have used a second flex to provide the extra signal. Why should the good guys carry multi-core control cable around to do a proper job when this guy thinks he can bend the rules. It's not as if he had to do significant extra work to get it right. When we had our boiler replaced a while ago, I took the opportunity to fix the rather bad electrics that were there before. By the time the guy arrived to fit, I'd already downloaded and read the manual, and started on the new permanent cabling. The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! Both screwfix and tollstation do suitable flex. Screwfix was a possibility...but the fact that I couldn't get it very locally perhaps explains why the job is often bodged.. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
Using green/yellow as switched live
Tim S wrote:
Cicero coughed up some electrons that declared: ========================================= I'm a bit confused by the OP's post. Can you actually buy three core cable with the earth wire separately insulated in the same way as the other two cores are insulated? I understood Fred's post to indicate that the earth is always a bare conductor in twin and earth cable whereas the OP's post suggests that his cable includes a fully insulated green/yellow earth. It's probably flex, based on the fact that heating is involved. I suspect it the flex going up to either the hall stat which probably wants E, L, Switched-L *and* neutral for the bias heater. Or it could be the flex going to the programmer and the bloke only had 4 core, when he needed 5 or whatever. Most likely neutral, live, switched live (and we'll forget about earth). -- JJ |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager"
wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:46:49 UTC, David Hansen
wrote: On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Think I looked at that one, but nothing about being rated to 90 deg. C. -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On 25 Jan 2009 11:45:43 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager"
wrote this:- http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Think I looked at that one, but nothing about being rated to 90 deg. C. Simply terminate it near anything that may get hot and use suitable cable from there to the hot bit. I don't suppose that cowboys who use the protective conductor as a live one bother about temperature ratings either, but there isn't a rash of melted flex. Certainly none of the boilers or pumps which I have used have ever been so hot where the supply wiring runs that normal PVC covered cable would be in any danger of melting. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:12:03 UTC, David Hansen
wrote: On 25 Jan 2009 11:45:43 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Think I looked at that one, but nothing about being rated to 90 deg. C. Simply terminate it near anything that may get hot and use suitable cable from there to the hot bit. The thing was only a metre long. And I'd still need to source the cable for the last bit. The spec said 90 deg. so that's what I used. I don't suppose that cowboys who use the protective conductor as a live one bother about temperature ratings either, but there isn't a rash of melted flex. Certainly none of the boilers or pumps which I have used have ever been so hot where the supply wiring runs that normal PVC covered cable would be in any danger of melting. So you'd ignore the recommendation in the boiler installation manual? -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article ,
Bob Eager wrote: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Think I looked at that one, but nothing about being rated to 90 deg. C. Don't think much needs high temperature cable - except perhaps an immersion heater connection. The current everything else takes is low, and PVC won't melt at the sort of ambient temps you'll find on boiler connections. -- *A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:19:44 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Bob Eager wrote: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Think I looked at that one, but nothing about being rated to 90 deg. C. Don't think much needs high temperature cable - except perhaps an immersion heater connection. The current everything else takes is low, and PVC won't melt at the sort of ambient temps you'll find on boiler connections. As I said, I was just doing it 'by the book'! The new boiler is a lot cooler than the old one was in the same places, but that's what the book says! (and, after all, one of the reasons *I* did the electrics was to avoid having any bodges (well, bodges that weren't mine!) done) -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On 25 Jan 2009 12:18:57 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager"
wrote this:- The thing was only a metre long. Then I wouldn't bother to use it. I don't suppose that cowboys who use the protective conductor as a live one bother about temperature ratings either, but there isn't a rash of melted flex. Certainly none of the boilers or pumps which I have used have ever been so hot where the supply wiring runs that normal PVC covered cable would be in any danger of melting. So you'd ignore the recommendation in the boiler installation manual? Did I say that I would? -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:46:49 +0000, David Hansen
wrote: On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. -- |
Using green/yellow as switched live
In article ,
Mike wrote: While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. Nothing wrong with using multiple flexes - provided the earth wires remain just that. -- *If you ate pasta and anti-pasta, would you still be hungry? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
"Mike" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:46:49 +0000, David Hansen wrote: On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. I wire up S plans quite often and I have never needed 6 cores plus CPC. Do not leave me guessing, why did you need more than 6 cores? Adam |
Using green/yellow as switched live
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. Best practice is to sleeve the spare cores with green/yellow and terminate them to earth. Adam |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:01:34 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , Mike wrote: While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. Nothing wrong with using multiple flexes - provided the earth wires remain just that. I've done that with thermostat and programmer runs but the 6 core flex with multiple colours simplifies installation and fault finding immensely if you have a 10 or 12 way chock block/wiring centre close to the boiler and another one in the airing cupboard/next to the diverter valve and run the 6 core between the two and then 3 core flex to the diverter/hot water thermostat/boiler/fused spur. No mixing up of browns and blues and every core colour ties in with the standard Y plan scheme. Thing is (and as someone who looked at it a few months ago said) with all the cables neatly clipped it just looks too neat for any spark associated with a CORGI to have installed it. :) I dread looking at the CH wiring in my parents place. Wired by an idiot who looped the boiler and pump T&E round the boiler and OH stat capillaries! There is no colour coding whatsoever, no wiring diagram either until I buzzed it all out - and despite it claiming to be a Y plan there was an unconnected core that would enable the heating to run independent of the hot water. -- |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:38:32 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: "Mike" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:46:49 +0000, David Hansen wrote: On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. I wire up S plans quite often and I have never needed 6 cores plus CPC. Do not leave me guessing, why did you need more than 6 cores? From the standard Honeywell diagram Really ****ty copy here http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/Schemes/s1.jpg Terminal 1 Grey wire to both zone valves (common contact) Terminal 2 Blue wire to both zone valve motors Terminal 3 Green Yellow cpc to both zone valves Terminal 5 Brown to heating zone valve motor Terminal 6 Unspecified colour to cyl stat normally open Terminal 8 Brown to cyl stat common and hot water zone valve motor Terminal 10 Orange wire to both zone valves (Normally open contact) I can't see any further scope for core sharing and so make that 6 cores plus cpc. (not the seven plus cpc I said) Maybe it was 5 plus cpc for Y plan and 6 plus cpc for S plan and it was the 6 plus cpc I couldn't find This would be around 8 or 9 years ago I went round all the local electrical factors plus Newey and Eyre and CEF. I would have preferred to go S Plan because I had previously acquired a large box of unused 2 port 22mm valves at an auction and the desire to use a single cable rather than a hotch potch of T&E on a brand new build mean that none of them got used and I had to go out and buy half a dozen 3 port valves (it was a multiple holiday let installation) -- |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:38:32 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:
I wire up S plans quite often and I have never needed 6 cores plus CPC. Depends on how through you are being on the programmer to wiring center connection. I can see 9 wires being used: Supply (L N E) CH (NO C NC) HW (NO C NC) One wouldn't normally need the two NO's in S Plan and the two C's could share the L but you loose flexabilty at a later date by not having everything back in the wiring center. -- Cheers Dave. |
Using green/yellow as switched live
"Mike" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:38:32 GMT, "ARWadsworth" wrote: I wire up S plans quite often and I have never needed 6 cores plus CPC. Do not leave me guessing, why did you need more than 6 cores? From the standard Honeywell diagram Really ****ty copy here http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/Schemes/s1.jpg Terminal 1 Grey wire to both zone valves (common contact) Terminal 2 Blue wire to both zone valve motors Terminal 3 Green Yellow cpc to both zone valves Terminal 5 Brown to heating zone valve motor Terminal 6 Unspecified colour to cyl stat normally open Terminal 8 Brown to cyl stat common and hot water zone valve motor Terminal 10 Orange wire to both zone valves (Normally open contact) I can't see any further scope for core sharing and so make that 6 cores plus cpc. (not the seven plus cpc I said) Maybe it was 5 plus cpc for Y plan and 6 plus cpc for S plan and it was the 6 plus cpc I couldn't find This would be around 8 or 9 years ago I went round all the local electrical factors plus Newey and Eyre and CEF. I would have preferred to go S Plan because I had previously acquired a large box of unused 2 port 22mm valves at an auction and the desire to use a single cable rather than a hotch potch of T&E on a brand new build mean that none of them got used and I had to go out and buy half a dozen 3 port valves (it was a multiple holiday let installation) Interesting. I also have to fault find Y and S plans frequently so a setup like yours would be nice to fault find on. I usually see T&E everywhere with bits of flex etc I keep 3, 4, 5 and 6 core flex on the van but the 6 core lasts for ages. 6 core (inc green/yellow as one of the cores) would be needed for both S and Y plans with your method. ie one flex from the valves and the cylinder stat wiring center down to a wiring center by the boiler. I have never wired a system up in this way but it seems a reasonable and logical way of doing things. Cheers Adam |
Using green/yellow as switched live
On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:02:07 +0000, Mike wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:46:49 +0000, David Hansen wrote: On 24 Jan 2009 15:01:24 GMT someone who may be "Bob Eager" wrote this:- The difficult bit was getting cable with the right rating and number of cores. In the end I went to the local plumbers merchant, and even they struggled. In the end they found me a 'reel end' and I got it for a pound! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA0dot75F7.html has six cores plus protective conductor. That should be fine for most household systems. Unused cores can be terminated and left spare. While six cores plus cpc is suitable for Y plans - I've used it myself, unfortunately you need seven plus cpc for S plans. I'm not aware of any supplier of this. Uh! I wire up all sorts of controls and have never needed more than 5+E. -- Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter. The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html |
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