I went round to a friend of my mums today to swap two light fittings. They
were both standard type modern metal fittings. His fuse box is one of the
old type rewireable ones with 4 carriers in it, two Red spotted, one white
spotted and one with masking tape over it so not sure of its colour. Now
for safety sake I always turn the light on and then pull the fuse to make
sure it is dead. I flicked the switch and the light didn't come on. He
said "Oh it's because the dining room light is on"!! Apparantly it has been
like that since they bought the house in 1987, if you switch the dining room
light on the living room. kitchen, hall and landing go off!! He said they
are now used to it and it isn't a 'problem' anymore. He said he had the
electricity board around when they first moved in and they said it was safe
but not conventional!

Now the really wierd bit, when pulling the fuses I tried the one with
masking tape first, nothing, then the white one, nothing, then one red one,
nothing, final red one light went out along with
theTV,video,fridge,kettle,cooker, etc. Everything in the house downstairs
and all their lights seemed to go through this one red 30 Amp fuse apart
from the immersion heater which was was on the white one. The upstairs
sockets were fed by the other red fuse.

Needless to say I didn't change the fittings and advised him to get a sparky
in, I know my limits!!

Cheers

John

John wrote:
I went round to a friend of my mums today to swap two light fittings. They
were both standard type modern metal fittings. His fuse box is one of the
old type rewireable ones with 4 carriers in it, two Red spotted, one white
spotted and one with masking tape over it so not sure of its colour. Now
for safety sake I always turn the light on and then pull the fuse to make
sure it is dead. I flicked the switch and the light didn't come on. He
said "Oh it's because the dining room light is on"!! Apparantly it has been
like that since they bought the house in 1987, if you switch the dining room
light on the living room. kitchen, hall and landing go off!! He said they
are now used to it and it isn't a 'problem' anymore. He said he had the
electricity board around when they first moved in and they said it was safe
but not conventional!

Now the really wierd bit, when pulling the fuses I tried the one with
masking tape first, nothing, then the white one, nothing, then one red one,
nothing, final red one light went out along with
theTV,video,fridge,kettle,cooker, etc. Everything in the house downstairs
and all their lights seemed to go through this one red 30 Amp fuse apart
from the immersion heater which was was on the white one. The upstairs
sockets were fed by the other red fuse.

Needless to say I didn't change the fittings and advised him to get a sparky
in, I know my limits!!

Who knows? The actions of the DIY electrician passeth all understanding.
Maybe the fuse wire in the "masking tape" carrier (that fed the
lighting) went too often, so someone moved the wire from that fuse to
join the ones at the red one. Similarly, maybe they removed a landing
two way switch for re-decorating and wired it up wrong when putting it
back - so the looped-on lighting circuit is now being interrupted.


I'd say leaving it as it was until a tame electrician sorted it out was
the best policy, too. It probably doesn't need that much doing, other
than running a dedicated service to the cooker and new consumer unit to
provide the extra way.


--
Sue

"John" wrote in message
...
cut

Needless to say I didn't change the fittings and advised him to get a
sparky in, I know my limits!!

Cheers

John
Reminds me of the time in the late 60's/early 70's, when my dad - who lived
in a rented cottage - used to moan about his electric bill and had the
electric board out a few times to test his meter and use. This went on for a
few years until the landlord decided to up-grade all his houses and extend
the kitchens. Whilst working on the house nextdoor the electrician
apparently flew across the room! whilst taking out the cooker point. It
transpired that nextdoors cooker point was wired into my dads via a spur off
his cooker point! - very Heath Robinson!
Needless to say dads electric bills were about 30% cheaper thereafter, not
sure the old lady next door was quite so happy though!

Ron

I had aproblem with a friend's lights. I was actually working on adding a
spur for a garage door, which I /still/ haven't done, due to the time
wasted
on sussing out what was going on.

The easiest to solve was the lights appearing to be mainly on one fuse,
but
seemed different at other times. It turned out a wire was swapped in a 2G
2W
switch for the hal/landing lights, causing the up and down circuits to be
randomly cross connected. This came about by him replacing the switch with
out knowing what he was doing.

It was also replaced by a metal faced switch, for which no earth was
available. I'm trying to persuade him to replace them with insulated ones.

Is it possibe to get double insulated metal finished light switches so
that they don't need an earth?

I've never seen metal switches that don't need earthing. The lack of an
earth at a light switch usually means the wiring dates from the sixties and
probably needs replacing.

I was also taught (I hold C&G under the 15th edition) not to connect
separate circuits to the same face plate. I would have wired the landing
light to the downstairs circuit, or had the two way landing switch (upstairs
circuit) in a different location to the hall (downstairs circuit) and not
sharing a face plate or back box.

In the sixties it was not uncommon to "borrow" an neutral from the upstairs
lighting circuit for the landing light despite it being powered from the
downstairs circuit.

In article ,
Doctor D wrote:
I was also taught (I hold C&G under the 15th edition) not to connect
separate circuits to the same face plate. I would have wired the landing
light to the downstairs circuit, or had the two way landing switch
(upstairs circuit) in a different location to the hall (downstairs
circuit) and not sharing a face plate or back box.

You wouldn't like my place, then, where you can switch on or off all the
landing lights from the front door - three floors on three circuits. And
the idea of using separate switches is a no-no aesthetically. Nor would I
have all the landings on the same circuit either for safety reasons.

In the sixties it was not uncommon to "borrow" an neutral from the
upstairs lighting circuit for the landing light despite it being
powered from the downstairs circuit.

It was as big a bodge then has now. Luckily RCDs prevent such bad
workmanship.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:28:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor D wrote:
I was also taught (I hold C&G under the 15th edition) not to connect
separate circuits to the same face plate. I would have wired the landing
light to the downstairs circuit, or had the two way landing switch
(upstairs circuit) in a different location to the hall (downstairs
circuit) and not sharing a face plate or back box.

You wouldn't like my place, then, where you can switch on or off all the
landing lights from the front door - three floors on three circuits. And
the idea of using separate switches is a no-no aesthetically. Nor would I
have all the landings on the same circuit either for safety reasons.

An old GF needed a mid-flight light (she's disabled and has to have good
lighting) so, while I was doing the job I wired all 3 to 1 2-way circuit
and at the same time rewired so that the whole lot came from 1 circuit.
I don't like the system where the 2 circuits are linked by the stairway
lights.

Trouble is, all the plates are metal and the [separate, 2-way] board for
lighting doesn't even have an earth to it - I suggested that she put
another coat of laquer on :-)
In the sixties it was not uncommon to "borrow" an neutral from the
upstairs lighting circuit for the landing light despite it being
powered from the downstairs circuit.

It was as big a bodge then has now. Luckily RCDs prevent such bad
workmanship.


--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:28:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It was as big a bodge then has now. Luckily RCDs prevent such bad
workmanship.

*Might* prevent such bad workmanship. If the borrowed N still returns
through the RCD that the Lives comes from there will be no imbalance to
trip the RCD.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In the sixties it was not uncommon to "borrow" an neutral from the
upstairs lighting circuit for the landing light despite it being
powered from the downstairs circuit.

It was as big a bodge then has now. Luckily RCDs prevent such bad
workmanship.

It seemed more common then. Possibly due to the lack of three core and earth
cable?

RCDs don't detect this unless one circuit is connected without the RCD, or
RCBOs are used.

In article ,
Doctor D wrote:
In the sixties it was not uncommon to "borrow" an neutral from the
upstairs lighting circuit for the landing light despite it being
powered from the downstairs circuit.

It was as big a bodge then has now. Luckily RCDs prevent such bad
workmanship.

It seemed more common then. Possibly due to the lack of three core and
earth cable?

You'd not normally run triple and earth to the fitting, though. Just
between switches.

RCDs don't detect this unless one circuit is connected without the RCD,
or RCBOs are used.

Indeed. Although I've seen neutrals borrowed from any circuit including
rings - so might make a difference on split load types.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.