Over the years I have done bits of wiring on my various homes and have
some idea of the general principles.

Current home has some pretty poor bodges from previous owner(s)
including the kitchen wiring. Also needs a new consumer unit.

I have taken early retirement and do not anticipate working full time in
future.

How complicated is it to get to a standard where I could do it myself?
What would I need to spend on tools and testgear?

TIA for any advice.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Invisible Man wrote:

Over the years I have done bits of wiring on my various homes and have
some idea of the general principles.

Current home has some pretty poor bodges from previous owner(s)
including the kitchen wiring. Also needs a new consumer unit.

I have taken early retirement and do not anticipate working full time
in future.

How complicated is it to get to a standard where I could do it myself?
What would I need to spend on tools and testgear?

TIA for any advice.

It's not practical to undertake the training and get the kit which will
enable you to 'self certify' under Part P if you're just doing a few jobs
for yourself, and not doing it for a living.

However, you can still do it yourself - but you'll need to submit a Building
Notice and get your local authority to test and certify it. You'll need to
become au fait with the latest (17th Edition) wiring regs, of course.

That way, you'll only need the usual DIY tools - drills, screwdriver,
pliers, etc. - and a multimeter would be handy.

Some local authorities may try to wriggle out of their responsibility to
test and certify your work - and may try to insist that you use a qualified
electrician - but they can't legally do that, so you may need to be
persistent. But go and talk to them to find out how they operate. With mine,
you have to give them a full spec up front, saying exactly what you are
going to do. They will send a normal Building Inspector to do a visual
inspection after first fix, and then they will send a qualified
electrician - at *their* expense, paid for out of the Building Notice fee
[1] - to do the final test and certification.

It often pays, if you can manage it, to combine electrical work with some
other notifiable work - however trivial - because some authorities have
higher inspection fees for 'electrics only' work. For example, the notes
issued by my LA (Warwick District Council) say:
"If electrical works are part of a larger project, no further fee is
payable. The fee for a application purely for electrical work should be
calculated on the basis of Table C. However a BS7671 completion certificate
will need to be issued by an electrician registered with an approved
'competent person' scheme. The electrician should be appointed by the
applicant. If Building Control are asked to inspect, test and certify the
electrical works, further fees will be required, based on an hourly rate."

[1] As long as it's part of a larger project - see the bit in quotes.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Invisible Man wrote:

Over the years I have done bits of wiring on my various homes and have
some idea of the general principles.

Current home has some pretty poor bodges from previous owner(s)
including the kitchen wiring. Also needs a new consumer unit.

I have taken early retirement and do not anticipate working full time
in future.

How complicated is it to get to a standard where I could do it myself?
What would I need to spend on tools and testgear?

TIA for any advice.

It's not practical to undertake the training and get the kit which will
enable you to 'self certify' under Part P if you're just doing a few jobs
for yourself, and not doing it for a living.

However, you can still do it yourself - but you'll need to submit a Building
Notice and get your local authority to test and certify it. You'll need to
become au fait with the latest (17th Edition) wiring regs, of course.

That way, you'll only need the usual DIY tools - drills, screwdriver,
pliers, etc. - and a multimeter would be handy.

Some local authorities may try to wriggle out of their responsibility to
test and certify your work - and may try to insist that you use a qualified
electrician - but they can't legally do that, so you may need to be
persistent. But go and talk to them to find out how they operate. With mine,
you have to give them a full spec up front, saying exactly what you are
going to do. They will send a normal Building Inspector to do a visual
inspection after first fix, and then they will send a qualified
electrician - at *their* expense, paid for out of the Building Notice fee
[1] - to do the final test and certification.

It often pays, if you can manage it, to combine electrical work with some
other notifiable work - however trivial - because some authorities have
higher inspection fees for 'electrics only' work. For example, the notes
issued by my LA (Warwick District Council) say:
"If electrical works are part of a larger project, no further fee is
payable. The fee for a application purely for electrical work should be
calculated on the basis of Table C. However a BS7671 completion certificate
will need to be issued by an electrician registered with an approved
'competent person' scheme. The electrician should be appointed by the
applicant. If Building Control are asked to inspect, test and certify the
electrical works, further fees will be required, based on an hourly rate."

[1] As long as it's part of a larger project - see the bit in quotes.

Thanks for this. Had multimeters etc since I got physics A level and did
not do quite so well doing electronic engineering at uni.
A bid of earth bonding, a new consumer unit and new rings in the kitchen
look necessary here. The rest doesn't look too bad.
The kitchen had various spotlights wired to the cooker point with no
additional protection!

Invisible Man wrote:

Over the years I have done bits of wiring on my various homes and have
some idea of the general principles.

Current home has some pretty poor bodges from previous owner(s)
including the kitchen wiring. Also needs a new consumer unit.

I have taken early retirement and do not anticipate working full time in
future.

How complicated is it to get to a standard where I could do it myself?
What would I need to spend on tools and testgear?

There are three questions here really:

1) What does it take to get to a state of competence to do the actual work,
2) what tools are required,
3) and what does one do to self certify.


(1) A few books[1], and some reading on this group and its various FAQs
and Wiki articles will give you a good insight into the "how" aspects.

For starters you can have a read through some of the basics articles he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ory:Electrical

In particular:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._for_Beginners
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Rewiring_Tips
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Cables
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Earthing_Types
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ng_and_Bonding
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Ring_circuit



(2) Tools and equipment required are discussed he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...l_Installation



(3) is probably not going to be cost effective for small scale DIY work
only. Which leaves you with the building notice route, or the get on
with it and ignore it route. Only you can make that judgement.




[1] A copy of the On-Site Guide would be a good start. The regs
themselves are worth having for reference but do not make for easy
reading. One of the many commentary books would probably be better. Look
for stuff by Scadden, or Whitfield. There are quite substantial excerpts
from Whitfield's book he

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.1.htm

Note that this is relevant to the 16th edition - however most of the
information will still be relevant (and it won't hurt knowing how things
used to be done since that is what you will be meeting in reality for
years to come)

--
Cheers,

John.

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Thanks for this. Had multimeters etc since I got physics A level and did
not do quite so well doing electronic engineering at uni.

Sorry, you're over qualified for this type of work.

stuart noble coughed up some electrons that declared:


Thanks for this. Had multimeters etc since I got physics A level and did
not do quite so well doing electronic engineering at uni.

Sorry, you're over qualified for this type of work.

If you want an eye opener, try the IET forums. 97% of folk there are
extremely knowledgeable and helpful, provided you've done your homework and
made an effort.

The other 3% seem to have the attitude:

prior to Part P:

"You're not an electrician unless you're qualified"

after Part P:

"5 day wonder NICEIC approved Domestic Installer - Bah! You're not an
electrician unless you're time served for 20 years, spent 3 years at
college and have 8 C&Gs" (most of which no longer exist).

Doesn't matter what degree(s) or other relevant background you have.

About the only other place to find such bitterness is on a gas fitters
forum.

Unsurprisingly, the people who are in a more righteous position to slap down
the unitiated, because they are MIET, CEng, degree and C&G'd in one or more
aspects of electrical work or testing are the most helpful and never get
upset.

Bit like our favourite CORGI fellows here

Cheers

Tim

On 18 Dec, 21:49, "Roger Mills" wrote:

It's not practical to undertake the training and get the kit which will
enable you to 'self certify' under Part P if you're just doing a few jobs
for yourself, and not doing it for a living.

AIUI, even training, competency and equipment isn't sufficient, but
being a junior PFY spod working for a NICEIC contractor is. Remember
that Part P is about income tax, not electrics!

However, you can still do it yourself - but you'll need to submit a Building
Notice and get your local authority to test and certify it. You'll need to
become au fait with the latest (17th Edition) wiring regs, of course.

What's the timescale for work requiring to be to the 17th rather than
16th, and does Part P still have that infamous clause in it where it
literally states 16th ed. (and by implication, not 17th)?

Andy Dingley coughed up some electrons that declared:

What's the timescale for work requiring to be to the 17th rather than
16th, and does Part P still have that infamous clause in it where it
literally states 16th ed. (and by implication, not 17th)?

All new work started now should be to the 17th. I don't know about the
wording, but the BCO here said 16th and I told him it would be done to the
17th. He didn't argue (well bigger numbers are always better, aren't
they ;-

Cheers

Tim

Huge coughed up some electrons that declared:

I suggest if you want to wallow in bigotry and ignorance you have a
(brief) look at any amateur radio forum, which will way exceed the
bitterness of gas fitters.

I dread to imagine...

The arguments are so vicious because the stakes are so small.

I presume a bit like 2 sysadmins conducting a verbal jihad over:

vi(m) vs emacs

vi vs vim (seen that)

perl vs python (OK that was me vs a very nice chap who now works for Google)

C vs C++ vs Java

Cheers

Tim

Huge wrote:

The arguments are so vicious because the stakes are so small.

LOL, One could have a tee shirt printed with that ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

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On 18 Dec, 21:49, "Roger Mills" wrote:
////snip///


It often pays, if you can manage it, to combine electrical work with some
other notifiable work - however trivial - because some authorities have
higher inspection fees for 'electrics only' work. For example, the notes
issued by my LA (Warwick District Council) say:
"If electrical works are part of a larger project, no further fee is
payable. The fee for a application purely for electrical work should be
calculated on the basis of Table C. However a BS7671 completion certificate
will need to be issued by an electrician registered with an approved
'competent person' scheme.

What's going on here?

membership of part P organizations authorizes that person [ONLY] to
instal domestic electrical work which would otherwise require Building
Regs approval or notification. It does NOT qualify anyone to inspect
thrid party work for Part P purposes.

The simplest procedure is to submit a building notice with the fee and
get on with the work. It is up to the local authority Building
Control dept to approve the work as and when. NOT your job.


The electrician should be appointed by the
applicant. If Building Control are asked to inspect, test and certify the
electrical works, further fees will be required, based on an hourly rate."

No it is all part of the notification fee. No further charge may be
made after work has started.

As to whether different fees may be charged for electrical work as
opposed to other building work, that is another bone of contention.

In the end even if you decide you have to kowtow instead of arguing,
fire off a complaint to your MP about the unlawful charges being made
by your District Council. It might be grape shot, but in the end
complaints register.

jim wrote:

"If electrical works are part of a larger project, no further fee is
payable. The fee for a application purely for electrical work should be
calculated on the basis of Table C. However a BS7671 completion certificate
will need to be issued by an electrician registered with an approved
'competent person' scheme.

What's going on here?

membership of part P organizations authorizes that person [ONLY] to
instal domestic electrical work which would otherwise require Building
Regs approval or notification. It does NOT qualify anyone to inspect
thrid party work for Part P purposes.

Indeed. If the BC department want an inspection carried out then they
should pay for it if they are incapable of doing it inhouse.

The simplest procedure is to submit a building notice with the fee and
get on with the work. It is up to the local authority Building
Control dept to approve the work as and when. NOT your job.

That's the theory (as described in para 1.26 of the Part P approved
document). However the practice varies. A few will let you work that
way. Many don't however and insist either you pay for an inspection or
pay an enhanced BN fee to allow them to fund one.

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-... 079f7a19eba0


The electrician should be appointed by the
applicant. If Building Control are asked to inspect, test and certify the
electrical works, further fees will be required, based on an hourly rate."

No it is all part of the notification fee. No further charge may be
made after work has started.

As to whether different fees may be charged for electrical work as
opposed to other building work, that is another bone of contention.

In the end even if you decide you have to kowtow instead of arguing,
fire off a complaint to your MP about the unlawful charges being made
by your District Council. It might be grape shot, but in the end
complaints register.

Can't see there being enough of them to count, but worth a try I suppose.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
jim wrote:


The simplest procedure is to submit a building notice with the fee and
get on with the work. It is up to the local authority Building
Control dept to approve the work as and when. NOT your job.

But it's your job - just with normal building work - to tell them when a
particular stage is *ready* for inspection. Just as foundation trenches
cannot be inspected when you've filled them with concrete, cables can't be
inspected once you've plastered over thm.

As to whether different fees may be charged for electrical work as
opposed to other building work, that is another bone of contention.

Well, there lies the rub! As far as I know, fees are not set nationally, and
each LA is free to impose its own fees - including higher ones for
electrics-only jobs if it wishes.

In some ways I feel sorry for Building Control departments - having all this
rubbish imposed on them by central government without being given any
resources to gear up for it. Employing external inspectors costs them real
money, and they're not allowed to make a loss - so they've got to try to
recover it somehow.

The goverment assumed that everyone would employ a Part-P qualified
electrician - but still allowed DIY-ing, without considering the
consequences. Prescott has got a lot to answer for!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:

In some ways I feel sorry for Building Control departments - having all this
rubbish imposed on them by central government without being given any
resources to gear up for it. Employing external inspectors costs them real
money, and they're not allowed to make a loss - so they've got to try to
recover it somehow.

Indeed - they have my sympathy as well, after all it was not their idea
I am sure. The tricky thing is working out how to cause pain in the
system where it is most deserved!


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:


Indeed - they have my sympathy as well, after all it was not their idea
I am sure. The tricky thing is working out how to cause pain in the
system where it is most deserved!


36 barrels of black powder?