Hi,

May need to disconnect my gas pipework for a bit for safety during building
works (gas pipes at risk of damage unless I feel brave enough to cut and
blank them off inside the house).

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

Or how would 3/4" and 1" translate to an across-the-flats measurement of the
union nut (nut that screws onto the meter)?

Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on the
rubber washer.

Many thanks

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

May need to disconnect my gas pipework for a bit for safety during
building
works (gas pipes at risk of damage unless I feel brave enough to cut and
blank them off inside the house).

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

Or how would 3/4" and 1" translate to an across-the-flats measurement of
the
union nut (nut that screws onto the meter)?

Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on
the
rubber washer.

Many thanks

Tim


You want to seal off the meter and everything on the house side of it? What
if you shut off the main valve at the meter and remove the handle. Then cut
the 22 mm pipe on the domestic side and cap it off at the pipe going to the
meter. Leaving the house pipework open to vent any residual gas.

All you have to buy is a 22 mm cap end (stop end). If you want it really
gas tight, wrap a couple of turns of PTFE tape around the thread.

You can turn the handle on the valve spigot to face in line with the supply
pipe when it's closed, then lock it off with a chain and padlock, or even a
plastic zip tie, to the pipe.

BigWallop coughed up some electrons that declared:


"Tim S" wrote in message
...
Hi,

May need to disconnect my gas pipework for a bit for safety during
building
works (gas pipes at risk of damage unless I feel brave enough to cut and
blank them off inside the house).

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

Or how would 3/4" and 1" translate to an across-the-flats measurement of
the
union nut (nut that screws onto the meter)?

Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on
the
rubber washer.

Many thanks

Tim


You want to seal off the meter and everything on the house side of it?
What
if you shut off the main valve at the meter and remove the handle. Then
cut the 22 mm pipe on the domestic side and cap it off at the pipe going
to the
meter. Leaving the house pipework open to vent any residual gas.

All you have to buy is a 22 mm cap end (stop end). If you want it really
gas tight, wrap a couple of turns of PTFE tape around the thread.

You can turn the handle on the valve spigot to face in line with the
supply pipe when it's closed, then lock it off with a chain and padlock,
or even a plastic zip tie, to the pipe.

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on the
gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd buy
both sizes, but they're rather more than that.

Cheers

Tim

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:20:45 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

I think it's 1", but aren't they cheap enough you can buy one of each? (I
think you're referring to the discs that go inside the outlet fitting?)


Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on
the rubber washer.

Yup, dry.

--
John Stumbles

Thank God I'm an atheist

John Stumbles coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:20:45 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

I think it's 1", but aren't they cheap enough you can buy one of each? (I
think you're referring to the discs that go inside the outlet fitting?)

Hi John,

I was looking for the discs, but I could only find these:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/037.asp

"Meter Caps", about 3/4 the way down. These would be fine.

However, I did run a search in BES and located these:

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/036.asp

"Sealing discs" and as you say they are dirt cheap.


Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on
the rubber washer.

Yup, dry.


Good, thought so, but wise to double check. I'm certainly happy enough to
cap off the meter; it's outside so minimal risk. I'll get a manometer
whilst I'm at it and have a run though a leak test before I do, just to see
how the existing piping is (I may have disturbed the run to the cooker
ripping out kitchen units).

Many thanks,

Tim

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:20:45 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Hi,

May need to disconnect my gas pipework for a bit for safety during building
works (gas pipes at risk of damage unless I feel brave enough to cut and
blank them off inside the house).

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

Or how would 3/4" and 1" translate to an across-the-flats measurement of the
union nut (nut that screws onto the meter)?

Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on the
rubber washer.

Many thanks

Tim


Do you feel competant to mess with gas? I'm only asking because
halfway through a job you don't want to have to be asking a question
on usenet whilst your house slowing fills with gas and eventually
explodes.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

mogga coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:20:45 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Hi,

May need to disconnect my gas pipework for a bit for safety during
building works (gas pipes at risk of damage unless I feel brave enough to
cut and blank them off inside the house).

Either way I need to buy a meter cap and washer. Would the size for a
typical above-ground domestic meter with a 22mm copper connection more
likely be 3/4" or 1" (so I can order the right part from BES)

Or how would 3/4" and 1" translate to an across-the-flats measurement of
the union nut (nut that screws onto the meter)?

Can I also just confirm that caps are put on dry without any sealant on
the rubber washer.

Many thanks

Tim


Do you feel competant to mess with gas? I'm only asking because
halfway through a job you don't want to have to be asking a question
on usenet whilst your house slowing fills with gas and eventually
explodes.

Hi,

Well, in that case, I'd throw the isolator valve on the meter and remove the
handle

This is exactly why I'm looking into it now, before I touch anything. I need
to cut off a leg of pipe (cooker feed) and cap it. I have a choice of
compression fitting or solder end stop and both are legal as the location
is accessible.

I'd rather solder it - but to do that I need to disconnect from the meter
and purge the pipe, hence the need for a cap. In the worst case, if I'm not
happy with what I've done, after a leak test (manometer and spray) I'll cap
the meter and leave it - but I'd rather have the heating available.

Regarding fitting the new boiler next year which will mean all new pipework,
I may have found a CORGI fitter who would be willing to check my work under
the guise of a gas safety check. As it happens he's trained with Viessmann
boilers but he does mostly servicing rather than installations these days,
so he's not loosing work as such by such an arrangement.

stopping off a pipe: Yes, I feel happy to do this, not because I know
all the answers, but because I know what I need to find out about before I
touch anything.

If that worries you, then I'm listening (seriously) but I don't see any
issues and I have a fall back if everything goes wrong, which is unlikely.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on the
gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd buy
both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)


It wouldn't surprise me having watched a particular CORGI man in action(!).

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the meter
as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light of the gas
FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though it to dispell
the gas might be sensible.

BTW - I found lurking in the back of the meter box a cap. It's metal, looks
like 3/4" thread. The 22mm copper is mostly soldered but goes into a
compression joint on a brass union that goes onto the meter. Brass union is
the bit that the meter's hung by on the bracket.

Looks like the metal cap I found fits the brass union's thread in place of
the pipe. The cap looks like it makes a metal-metal joint and has some oil
or grease residue inside. This isn't quite what I was expecting.


I think I'm going to wimp out of this, partly because the building's
unattended some days (so if there's a problem I won't be there to notice)
and I've got builders starting so it's not really fair to cause risk to
them, however small.

I did however work out a way to get my money's worth for the call out of a
CORGI man. Rather than just requesting a capping off of a leg of pipe
expensive at 70-90 quid min call out), I could get him to start a whole new
pipe run where I want it, new cooker connection to another room and make a
temporary reconnection to the old boiler. That will turn a 20 minute job
into a good few hours so makes it a bit more worth it.

Cheers

Tim

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on the
gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd buy
both sizes, but they're rather more than that.

Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)

A couple of times many years ago, I had a CORGI install gas heaters.
On both occasions, the two different fitters completely removed the
gas meter whilst installing the pipework. Whilst it was sitting
outside on the garden path, I was slightly concerned someone might
nick it!

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:50:25 +0000, Tim S wrote:


Hi,

Well, in that case, I'd throw the isolator valve on the meter and remove the
handle

This is exactly why I'm looking into it now, before I touch anything. I need
to cut off a leg of pipe (cooker feed) and cap it. I have a choice of
compression fitting or solder end stop and both are legal as the location
is accessible.

I'd rather solder it - but to do that I need to disconnect from the meter
and purge the pipe, hence the need for a cap. In the worst case, if I'm not
happy with what I've done, after a leak test (manometer and spray) I'll cap
the meter and leave it - but I'd rather have the heating available.

Regarding fitting the new boiler next year which will mean all new pipework,
I may have found a CORGI fitter who would be willing to check my work under
the guise of a gas safety check. As it happens he's trained with Viessmann
boilers but he does mostly servicing rather than installations these days,
so he's not loosing work as such by such an arrangement.

stopping off a pipe: Yes, I feel happy to do this, not because I know
all the answers, but because I know what I need to find out about before I
touch anything.

If that worries you, then I'm listening (seriously) but I don't see any
issues and I have a fall back if everything goes wrong, which is unlikely.

Cheers

Tim


Cool. I was just checking.
An ex-neighbour of mine burnt his hands after a gas explosion which he
was no where near at the time honest gov, and took out half a house.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light
of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though
it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework with
gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't flash back
down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far down the pipe to
sustain combustion.

BTW don't forget your bonding strap if you're cutting installation
pipework pipework.

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

I forgot to take my amnesia medecine again

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light
of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though
it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework with
gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't flash back
down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far down the pipe to
sustain combustion.

And what about the pressure wave sent down the pipe following your little
explosion?

Tim S wrote:

Well, in that case, I'd throw the isolator valve on the meter and remove the
handle

This is exactly why I'm looking into it now, before I touch anything. I need
to cut off a leg of pipe (cooker feed) and cap it. I have a choice of
compression fitting or solder end stop and both are legal as the location
is accessible.

If you carry out a let-by test on the existing pipework, then you would
also validate the effectiveness of the main gas tap.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a fitting
to BS64 ?(IIRC).

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very small
metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a rubber washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the gas
meter (about 25% chance).

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is acceptable
if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of course!).






--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a fitting
to BS64 ?(IIRC).

Hi Ed,

OK - I was going by the sizes quoted by BES. I wonder if it's referring to
the adaptor thingy that's connected to the meter, that forms a compression
joint with the pipe - that connection is smaller than the port on the
meter.

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very small
metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a rubber washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the gas
meter (about 25% chance).

I did find a cap tucked in the back of the box, that looks like it goes on
the adaptor union, rather than the meter port. I'll take a picture next
time.

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is acceptable
if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of course!).

Ah - that's very useful to know - thanks.

Cheers

Tim

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:20:59 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work
on the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the
meter capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a
quid, I'd buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have
seen a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen
one use a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a
fitting to BS64 ?(IIRC).

Hi Ed,

OK - I was going by the sizes quoted by BES. I wonder if it's referring
to the adaptor thingy that's connected to the meter, that forms a
compression joint with the pipe - that connection is smaller than the
port on the meter.

Yes the other end of the meter outlet fitting will be 1/2, 3/4 or 1" BSP
(male-iron). or 22mm or 28mm compression.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid, I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one use
a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a fitting
to BS64 ?(IIRC).

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very small
metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a rubber washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the gas
meter (about 25% chance).

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is acceptable
if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of course!).

Have the regulations changed?

To whom is it acceptable to to use a flame on a gas carrying pipe
without isolating and disconnecting?

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

I have not seen pipework explode but I once worked with plumber with two
missing fingers as a result







--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work
on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the
meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid,
I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have
seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one
use
a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a fitting
to BS64 ?(IIRC).

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very
small
metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a rubber
washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the
gas
meter (about 25% chance).

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is acceptable
if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of course!).

Have the regulations changed?

To whom is it acceptable to to use a flame on a gas carrying pipe
without isolating and disconnecting?

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

I have not seen pipework explode but I once worked with plumber with two
missing fingers as a result


Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is turn on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the meter. The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.

I don't see what's wrong with the advice given?

Ed Sirett coughed up some electrons that declared:


Yes the other end of the meter outlet fitting will be 1/2, 3/4 or 1" BSP
(male-iron). or 22mm or 28mm compression.


Ah - so if it looks like a 22mm compression, then it is a 22mm compression
thread?

Thanks again Ed. As I mentioned earlier, I think I may back out of this.
It's not the soldering that worries me, it's the lack of knowledge about
the threaded stuff. It's comparable to me being happy with soldered and
compression water fittings, but threaded joints are a mystery. With water,
however, on say a pump or tap connector, I can wind on the PTFE or
hemp+boss-white[1] until it stops dripping - not something I think I should
experiment with. I'll stick with the electrics - of that I am fully
confident.

Maybe later, when I'm not under pressure from other jobs ;- Perhaps also if
I'm in a position of having a CORGI "supervisor" should one be forthcoming.

[1] Yes, I know about potable restrictions on hemp/boss-white - I was being
nostalgic.

Cheers

Tim

Heliotrope Smith coughed up some electrons that declared:


I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

Thanks for your concern, but I'd prefer that Ed, John and others weren't
discouraged from offering advice. As you'll see from my other post, given
sufficient information, I've come to my own conclusion that there are too
many variables for me to feel confident at this stage - I like to be
certain of things like this.

If Ed and others had clammed up and told me to get a man in, me being me
would more likely have said sod it and had a go, not being partial to being
fobbed off by supporters of an artisan system ;-

Please do allow some credit for folk to apply their intelligence. I know you
meant well, so, sorry for disagreeing.

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
Heliotrope Smith coughed up some electrons that declared:

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

Thanks for your concern, but I'd prefer that Ed, John and others weren't
discouraged from offering advice. As you'll see from my other post, given
sufficient information, I've come to my own conclusion that there are too
many variables for me to feel confident at this stage - I like to be
certain of things like this.

If Ed and others had clammed up and told me to get a man in, me being me
would more likely have said sod it and had a go, not being partial to being
fobbed off by supporters of an artisan system ;-

Please do allow some credit for folk to apply their intelligence. I know you
meant well, so, sorry for disagreeing.

Might also be worth mentioning in case Heliotrope was not aware, that
both Ed, and John S/YAPH are CORGI registered and can be relied upon to
give sound advice IME.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light
of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though
it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework with
gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't flash back
down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far down the pipe to
sustain combustion.

What!!! Run the flame of a torch over an open gas meter outlet and the
thing can give a big whoop!! ....and the insides ruined.

The meter horn size is 1". I" caps are available.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work
on
the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the
meter
capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a quid,
I'd
buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have
seen
a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen one
use
a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a
fitting
to BS64 ?(IIRC).

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very
small
metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a rubber
washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the
gas
meter (about 25% chance).

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is
acceptable
if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of course!).

Have the regulations changed?

To whom is it acceptable to to use a flame on a gas carrying pipe
without isolating and disconnecting?

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

I have not seen pipework explode but I once worked with plumber with two
missing fingers as a result


Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is turn
on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the meter.
The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.

They are? All of them? New to me. In short, they are not.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
et...
Tim S wrote:
Heliotrope Smith coughed up some electrons that declared:

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work

Thanks for your concern, but I'd prefer that Ed, John and others weren't
discouraged from offering advice. As you'll see from my other post, given
sufficient information, I've come to my own conclusion that there are too
many variables for me to feel confident at this stage - I like to be
certain of things like this.

If Ed and others had clammed up and told me to get a man in, me being me
would more likely have said sod it and had a go, not being partial to
being
fobbed off by supporters of an artisan system ;-

Please do allow some credit for folk to apply their intelligence. I know
you
meant well, so, sorry for disagreeing.

Might also be worth mentioning in case Heliotrope was not aware, that both
Ed, and John S/YAPH are CORGI registered and can be relied upon to give
sound advice IME.

When soldering any gas pipe the meter has to be disconnected at the meter
outlet. Near the meter the outlet requires a cap. We used the lid of a flux
tin between the meter union and meter horn as the flux made a seal.

Being Corgi anything means sweet FA. Just look at some of the installs.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped
Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is
turn
on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the meter.
The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen
burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.

They are? All of them? New to me. In short, they are not.


Yes. Yes. You should check then. In short? They are.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped

When soldering any gas pipe the meter has to be disconnected at the meter
outlet. Near the meter the outlet requires a cap. We used the lid of a
flux
tin between the meter union and meter horn as the flux made a seal.

Being Corgi anything means sweet FA. Just look at some of the installs.


How did you clean the flux off after doing these jobs? The flux does eat
through the metal, being an acidic cleaning solution, and would need to be
removed by heating and wiping from the compression fitting.

If you've ever seen flux left on solder joints, that go green as the flux
eats its way through the copper pipes because the joint hasn't been wiped
clean, you'd know that flux should not be used anywhere near a compression
fitting. Flux eats through brass much quicker than it eats through copper.

Can I have your phone number, please? Just to make a note to remind me not
to call you in to do my gas installations. :-)

Being CORGI approved mean you don't do silly things like put flux on
compression joints.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:47:52 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:40:43 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

Tim S wrote:

Thanks for that. I may at some point want to do some soldering work
on the gas pipe, so it should be disconnected from the meter and the
meter capped - so I would like to have a cap handy. If they were a
quid, I'd buy both sizes, but they're rather more than that.


Whilst I realise it is the right way to do it, I don't think I have
seen a corgi cap a meter before soldering a pipe yet (not often seen
one use a manometer either!)

Hi all,

1) The size of the gas meter outlet is not a BSP fitting it is a
fitting to BS64 ?(IIRC).

2) The easiest way to cut off the outlet is with a disk (like a very
small metal tea tray) which goes in the outlet and is sealed by a
rubber washer.

3) either the cap or the disk might well be left lying around near the
gas meter (about 25% chance).

4) The use of flames on gas pipes connected to a gas meter is
acceptable if more than 2m from the meter. The meter is turned off (of
course!).

Have the regulations changed?

To whom is it acceptable to to use a flame on a gas carrying pipe
without isolating and disconnecting?

I think it a little irrisponsable to give such advice to someone who may
little expirience of gas work


1) I enquired about this from the (CORGI) advice line about three years
back. The advise was that soldering pipes more than 2m from the meter was
acceptable. All that was needed is to ensure the supply is turned off.

Pure gas (even 50:50 or even in fact 75 air: 25 gas) does not explode.
A small amount of the gas may burn at the open end of the pipe. As soon as
the immediately accessible gas has burnt the rest of the gas stays put,
IME.

2) Purging the pipes of gas is more likely to make them full of an
explosive mixture based on the gas which you did not get out.

3) All advise given here is worth what it costs. Having said that the FAQ
clearly states that knowing about (say) gas fitting does not make you
competent (which requires supervised experience aswell as knowledge).
It is my view that although a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
informed people are likely to fare better than ill informed guessers and
chancers. You can't stop some people being stupid and telling other people
(who in other areas of their life may well be very competent and/or highly
educated) is only likely to encourage them to experiment

E.g.
From time to time people suggest checking for leakage by seeing if the
meter records any gas usage over time. Far better to lay out the correct
procedures.




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:03:53 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
... snipped

When soldering any gas pipe the meter has to be disconnected at the
meter outlet. Near the meter the outlet requires a cap. We used the
lid of a
flux
tin between the meter union and meter horn as the flux made a seal.

Being Corgi anything means sweet FA. Just look at some of the
installs.


How did you clean the flux off after doing these jobs? The flux does
eat through the metal, being an acidic cleaning solution, and would need
to be removed by heating and wiping from the compression fitting.

If you've ever seen flux left on solder joints, that go green as the
flux eats its way through the copper pipes because the joint hasn't been
wiped clean, you'd know that flux should not be used anywhere near a
compression fitting. Flux eats through brass much quicker than it eats
through copper.

Can I have your phone number, please? Just to make a note to remind me
not to call you in to do my gas installations. :-)

Being CORGI approved mean you don't do silly things like put flux on
compression joints.

A frequent problem with flux and gas is when it finds its way onto the
semi-rigid stainless steel pipe called and anaconda (Most gas meters are
connected by one and sometimes two of them). It takes about 6 months for
the flux to eat through the pipe.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:57:09 +0000, John Kenyon wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the
light of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air
though it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework
with gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't
flash back down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far
down the pipe to sustain combustion.

And what about the pressure wave sent down the pipe following your
little explosion?

The UEL (Upper Explosive limit for Natural Gas is about 15% gas in air).
The gas pipes have no air in them and 100% gas.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:03:53 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

snipped
Can I have your phone number, please? Just to make a note to remind me
not to call you in to do my gas installations. :-)

Being CORGI approved mean you don't do silly things like put flux on
compression joints.

A frequent problem with flux and gas is when it finds its way onto the
semi-rigid stainless steel pipe called and anaconda (Most gas meters are
connected by one and sometimes two of them). It takes about 6 months for
the flux to eat through the pipe.

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


I think that's the joint Drivel is on about. From the flexible connector to
the meter. Put the lid of the flux tin in it. The flux paste makes a good
seal washer.




AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhh hhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped
Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is
turn
on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the meter.
The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen
burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.

They are? All of them? New to me. In short, they are not.


Yes. Yes. You should check then. In short? They are.

All of them?

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped

When soldering any gas pipe the meter has to be disconnected at the meter
outlet. Near the meter the outlet requires a cap. We used the lid of a
flux
tin between the meter union and meter horn as the flux made a seal.

Being Corgi anything means sweet FA. Just look at some of the installs.


How did you clean the flux off after doing these jobs?

With a rag.

I don't need a lecture on flux. ...or corgi.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:03:53 +0000, BigWallop wrote:

snipped
Can I have your phone number, please? Just to make a note to remind me
not to call you in to do my gas installations. :-)

Being CORGI approved mean you don't do silly things like put flux on
compression joints.

A frequent problem with flux and gas is when it finds its way onto the
semi-rigid stainless steel pipe called and anaconda (Most gas meters are
connected by one and sometimes two of them). It takes about 6 months for
the flux to eat through the pipe.

Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.


I think that's the joint Drivel is on about.

Nope. You haven't much of a clue.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:57:09 +0000, John Kenyon wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the
light of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air
though it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework
with gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't
flash back down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far
down the pipe to sustain combustion.

And what about the pressure wave sent down the pipe following your
little explosion?

The UEL (Upper Explosive limit for Natural Gas is about 15% gas in air).
The gas pipes have no air in them and 100% gas.

Until some of it moves out and some air moves in. I have seen a flash down
a 30 foot gas pipe with many elbows.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

Being CORGI approved mean

Corgi registered you mean. It is a registration authority, nothing else.
Corgi means a bathroom changer can do a soundness test.

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:19:10 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light
of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though
it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework with
gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't flash back
down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far down the pipe to
sustain combustion.

What!!! Run the flame of a torch over an open gas meter outlet and the
thing can give a big whoop!! ....and the insides ruined.

I generally try to be reasonably polite and diplomatic, but I'm having
a hard time avoiding using the word "pillock" here.

I did /not/ suggest applying a source of ignition to an open meter outlet.

Perhaps I was not being sufficiently idiot-considerate in not saying
specifically that one should not apply a flame to pipework close to the
meter, though an intelligent reading of my post (which Dr D has even
quoted in his reply) does, I think, make this fairly obvious.



The meter horn size is 1". I" caps are available.

Indeed. And so are flux tin lids smeared with corrosive acidic flux.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

The clairvoyants' meeting has been cancelled due to unforseen circumstances.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:19:10 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:37:31 +0000, Tim S wrote:

But wouldn't it cause a risk of flashback down the pipe and into the
meter as after the pipe's cut air will get in? I assumed (in the light
of the gas FAQ that disconnecting the pipe and blowing some air though
it to dispell the gas might be sensible.

I wouldn't remove or cap the meter to solder fittings to installation
pipework unless I were working right up at the meter itself. You may
occasionally get a little pop when unsoldering a fitting on pipework
with
gas inside it (or applying a light to an open end) it doesn't flash back
down the pipework. I think it's because air can't get far down the pipe
to
sustain combustion.

What!!! Run the flame of a torch over an open gas meter outlet and the
thing can give a big whoop!! ....and the insides ruined.

I generally try to be reasonably polite
and diplomatic, but I'm having
a hard time avoiding using the word
"pillock" here.

That came to my mind whenn read the dross all over this thread.

I did /not/ suggest applying a source
of ignition to an open meter outlet.

Soldering near one mean the flame can accidentally be passed over. See it
done and a big woomp!!!!...and the dials don't turn.

The meter horn size is 1". I" caps are available.

Indeed. And so are flux tin lids smeared with corrosive acidic flux.

Which are cheaper. It can be any lid, flux on it or not. It stops flashback
into the meter when simply put between the horn and meter union. Some flux
is less corrosive than others. I would not advise using Powerflux.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped
Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is
turn
on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the
meter.
The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters
are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen
burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.

They are? All of them? New to me. In short, they are not.


Yes. Yes. You should check then. In short? They are.

All of them?


Yes. All of them. Someone told me they were filters. That's until I
pointed out that all gas meters had to have anti-flash gauss in them to stop
idiots igniting gas at the output side. The gauss cause the gas to flare on
the outside of the meter union, like a Bunsen burner did when you were at
school (?).

So I will repeat the answer, just so you understand it fully. Yes. All
meters are fitted with an anti-flare gauss inside them.

Get it? Really got it? Good.

BigWallop wrote:
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
"BigWallop" wrote in message
om...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...
snipped
Remind me never to call him. The only thing the guys on site do, is
turn
on
an appliance and light it, and turn off at the main cock at the
meter.
The
lit appliance flares off any residual gas in the pipe work. Meters
are
fitted with gause screens, like you had to put on top of the Bunsen
burner
stand in school, to stop flare back into the main supply.
They are? All of them? New to me. In short, they are not.

Yes. Yes. You should check then. In short? They are.
All of them?


Yes. All of them. Someone told me they were filters. That's until I
pointed out that all gas meters had to have anti-flash gauss in them to stop
idiots igniting gas at the output side. The gauss cause the gas to flare on
the outside of the meter union, like a Bunsen burner did when you were at
school (?).

So I will repeat the answer, just so you understand it fully. Yes. All
meters are fitted with an anti-flare gauss inside them.

Get it? Really got it? Good.



So a gauss is normal. Give or take an SD or two. :-)

(Is is spelled differently up there(like lintol/lintel)? Maybe gauze for
the rest of us?)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org