I want to add a compression fitting lever arm ball valve in a piece of
22mm pipe that as far as I can tell is unlikely to be able to be
sprung apart enough to get the valve into the space. Is there a
special plumber's trick or piece of equipment or whatever to deal with
this problem?

Keith

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Keefiedee wrote:

I want to add a compression fitting lever arm ball valve in a piece of
22mm pipe that as far as I can tell is unlikely to be able to be
sprung apart enough to get the valve into the space. Is there a
special plumber's trick or piece of equipment or whatever to deal with
this problem?

Keith

What length of pipe is accessible? If you've got enough room, you could use
a 'pipe repair' fitting in series with the ball valve. These are like an
elongated compression coupler without an end stop one end - so you can slide
them down the pipe to clear the other pipe, and then slide them back over
the other pipe.

You can get the idea from http://tinyurl.com/5tb47j although that is a 15mm
fitting. You can probably get something similar in 22mm.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Nov 21, 11:54*am, "Roger Mills" wrote:

What length of pipe is accessible? If you've got enough room, you could use
a 'pipe repair' fitting in series with the ball valve. These are like an
elongated compression coupler without an end stop one end - so you can slide
them down the pipe to clear the other pipe, and then slide them back over
the other pipe.

You can get the idea fromhttp://tinyurl.com/5tb47j*although that is a 15mm
fitting. You can probably get something similar in 22mm.
--
Cheers,
Roger

Ah, that sounds possible. There is plenty of pipe to play with. My
worry is it's the central heating and I don't want to open the pipe to
fit the valve only to find I can't get it in!!!

Keith

In article
,
Keefiedee wrote:
On Nov 21, 11:54 am, "Roger Mills" wrote:

What length of pipe is accessible? If you've got enough room, you
could use a 'pipe repair' fitting in series with the ball valve. These
are like an elongated compression coupler without an end stop one end
- so you can slide them down the pipe to clear the other pipe, and
then slide them back over the other pipe.

You can get the idea fromhttp://tinyurl.com/5tb47j although that is a
15mm fitting. You can probably get something similar in 22mm. --
Cheers, Roger

Ah, that sounds possible. There is plenty of pipe to play with. My
worry is it's the central heating and I don't want to open the pipe to
fit the valve only to find I can't get it in!!!

I'm curious to know just what you're attempting to do?

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Nov 21, 2:39*pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Ah, that sounds possible. *There is plenty of pipe to play with. *My
worry is it's the central heating and I don't want to open the pipe to
fit the valve only to find I can't get it in!!!

I'm curious to know just what you're attempting to do?

* Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
* * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I have bought a house with fairly chaotic (but now much improved)
central heating arrangements. There is also a woodburner with a back
boiler connected to the heating circuit (without any special
arrangement to stop the oil boiler heating up the woodburner!!!!). I
want to be able to use the woodburner but it is not powerful enough to
run the whole house so I want to be able to shut off sections of my
central heating. I also only have a limited idea of which pipe
supplies which radiators. The pipe I want to put a valve in goes
upstairs, but I have no idea if it supplies all the upstairs radiators
or just some of them - so the valve would have two uses - find out
which radiators are on it and shut them off if appropriate when the
woodburner is lit.

Keith

"Keefiedee" wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 2:39 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Ah, that sounds possible. There is plenty of pipe to play with. My
worry is it's the central heating and I don't want to open the pipe to
fit the valve only to find I can't get it in!!!

I'm curious to know just what you're attempting to do?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I have bought a house with fairly chaotic (but now much improved)
central heating arrangements. There is also a woodburner with a back
boiler connected to the heating circuit (without any special
arrangement to stop the oil boiler heating up the woodburner!!!!). I
want to be able to use the woodburner but it is not powerful enough to
run the whole house so I want to be able to shut off sections of my
central heating. I also only have a limited idea of which pipe
supplies which radiators. The pipe I want to put a valve in goes
upstairs, but I have no idea if it supplies all the upstairs radiators
or just some of them - so the valve would have two uses - find out
which radiators are on it and shut them off if appropriate when the
woodburner is lit.

Keith


Wouldn't it be more advisable to close the radiators at their individual
valves? Closing of sections of a whole loop could cause air traps and hot
spots throughout the whole system. If you could close both the flow pipes
to certain sections, the water may not flow through the rest of the system.

If I were you, I'd think a bit more on what you intend to do, and make sure
that the additions you want to make to the system are safe and advisable.

Just my thoughts.

On Nov 21, 3:17*pm, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Wouldn't it be more advisable to close the radiators at their individual
valves? *Closing of sections of a whole loop could cause air traps and hot
spots throughout the whole system. *If you could close both the flow pipes
to certain sections, the water may not flow through the rest of the system.

If I were you, I'd think a bit more on what you intend to do, and make sure
that the additions you want to make to the system are safe and advisable.


I'm afraid I don't understand. Surely all I am planning to do is
equivalent to fitting a zone valve? All I'm planning to add is a
lever arm ball valve to the feed pipe pointing upstairs. How can that
be unsafe or inadvisable? The system already has a valve which closes
off the main house and so the annexe only is heated - fitted when it
was a "granny" annexe. That works perfectly well.

My question was about fitting valves, or anything in fact, in pipes
where it seems impossible or very difficult to separate the ends of
the pipe enough to get the valve in. Any other suggestions or links
on that score please?

Keith

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
BigWallop wrote:


Wouldn't it be more advisable to close the radiators at their
individual valves? Closing of sections of a whole loop could cause
air traps and hot spots throughout the whole system. If you could
close both the flow pipes to certain sections, the water may not flow
through the rest of the system.


Why? Zone valves shut off parts of a system without causing any problems.
Why is this any different (except for being manually operated)?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Keefiedee wrote:
On Nov 21, 3:17 pm, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Wouldn't it be more advisable to close the radiators at their
individual valves? Closing of sections of a whole loop could cause
air traps and hot spots throughout the whole system. If you could
close both the flow pipes to certain sections, the water may not
flow through the rest of the system.

If I were you, I'd think a bit more on what you intend to do, and
make sure that the additions you want to make to the system are safe
and advisable.


I'm afraid I don't understand. Surely all I am planning to do is
equivalent to fitting a zone valve? All I'm planning to add is a
lever arm ball valve to the feed pipe pointing upstairs. How can that
be unsafe or inadvisable? The system already has a valve which closes
off the main house and so the annexe only is heated - fitted when it
was a "granny" annexe. That works perfectly well.

My question was about fitting valves, or anything in fact, in pipes
where it seems impossible or very difficult to separate the ends of
the pipe enough to get the valve in. Any other suggestions or links
on that score please?

Keith

If you can find a full bore faxable pipe, with a 22mm compression connector
on each end, this might do what you are after? - However, not sure if and
central heating treatments will degrade them!

Is there really no movement at all on this pipe, you would only need a
couple of CM movement to get the valve in! Surely there must be some
movement for thermal expansion?

Or disconnect the pipe one end?

Toby...

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:48:24 -0000, "Toby"
wrote:

Keefiedee wrote:
On Nov 21, 3:17 pm, "BigWallop"
wrote:

Wouldn't it be more advisable to close the radiators at their
individual valves? Closing of sections of a whole loop could cause
air traps and hot spots throughout the whole system. If you could
close both the flow pipes to certain sections, the water may not
flow through the rest of the system.

If I were you, I'd think a bit more on what you intend to do, and
make sure that the additions you want to make to the system are safe
and advisable.


I'm afraid I don't understand. Surely all I am planning to do is
equivalent to fitting a zone valve? All I'm planning to add is a
lever arm ball valve to the feed pipe pointing upstairs. How can that
be unsafe or inadvisable? The system already has a valve which closes
off the main house and so the annexe only is heated - fitted when it
was a "granny" annexe. That works perfectly well.

My question was about fitting valves, or anything in fact, in pipes
where it seems impossible or very difficult to separate the ends of
the pipe enough to get the valve in. Any other suggestions or links
on that score please?

Keith

If you can find a full bore faxable pipe, with a 22mm compression connector
on each end, this might do what you are after? - However, not sure if and
central heating treatments will degrade them!

Is there really no movement at all on this pipe, you would only need a
couple of CM movement to get the valve in! Surely there must be some
movement for thermal expansion?

Or disconnect the pipe one end?

Toby...

I find it hard to believe that there is no movement at all in the
pipe...it will need to be cut to fit a valve anyway so only other
thing I can think of ,if there is room,is to cut the pipe and remove a
section then fit another section to the side using right-angle joints
to make a sort of U section on it's side and fit the valve in that.
Would that work?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Toby wrote:


If you can find a full bore faxable pipe, with a 22mm compression
connector on each end, this might do what you are after?


Faxing a pipe? That would be worth seeing! g
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Nov 21, 5:16*pm, wrote:
Is there really no movement at all on this pipe, you would only need a
couple of CM movement to get the valve in! Surely there must be some
movement for thermal expansion?

As I've already stated, the pipe is a central heating feed. It
certainly is very firmly fixed at the bottom, and as yet (and I
suspect this may be my next move) I have no examined it at the top. I
didn't want to drain the heating, then cut into the pipe and only then
find it wasn't possible to separate the pipes enough to insert the
valve.

But then I now realise I'm not at all sure where this woodburner is
plumbed into the circuits - so I may have to take up carpets and
flooring upstairs anyway to find out what's going on!

Keith

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:21:12 -0000, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Toby wrote:


If you can find a full bore faxable pipe, with a 22mm compression
connector on each end, this might do what you are after?


Faxing a pipe? That would be worth seeing! g

Fax Sake!!!

"Keefiedee" wrote in message
...
I want to add a compression fitting lever arm ball valve in a piece of
22mm pipe that as far as I can tell is unlikely to be able to be
sprung apart enough to get the valve into the space. Is there a
special plumber's trick or piece of equipment or whatever to deal with
this problem?

Keith

OK, it's easy. Cut out a few inches more pipe than the valve needs. Fit
the valve on one end and cut off a short piece of the piece of pipe to fill
the remaining gap, and make the joint with a 22mm end feed slip coupler like
this (although you can get it a lot cheaper in your local plumbers
merchants)
http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog...p_Coupler.html

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:46:10 -0800, Keefiedee wrote:

I want to add a compression fitting lever arm ball valve in a piece of
22mm pipe that as far as I can tell is unlikely to be able to be
sprung apart enough to get the valve into the space. Is there a
special plumber's trick or piece of equipment or whatever to deal with
this problem?

If there is really /no/ give in the pipes to spring them apart you can get
away with cutting the pipe so that with the valve pushed fully over one
pipe end the valve will then mate with the other end. Then the valve will
slide back and forth on the pipe ends: tighten the compression fittings so
the valve is midway in its travel and therefore the pipe ends are equally
inserted into the valve. IYSWIM.

If there's enough straight length of pipework the pukka way would be to
make another cut somewhere along and join that with a slip coupling after
fitting the valve properly.

If the pipe at one side or another of the proposed valve position does a
right angle bend and there's room to cut and insert a fitting round the
bend (as it were :-)) then that can give you enough wiggle space to
assembe the valve and the new (compression) coupling.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Never believe anyone who claims to be a liar