And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about 8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? - bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.


TIA

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do
jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and
there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about
8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping
up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin
to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained
black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean
out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? -
bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.

TIA
Phil L


Now is your chance to drain the whole system and flush it all out. Feed in
some of the chemicals you want, fit the boiler, and fill it all up again.
Fanny is your mothers sister, with Robert as her husband. :-)

Might as well take the opportunity to do the whole lot while it's all going
to be off and waiting for the boiler fitter to do his bit. Oh......That's
you? Well make a good job of it or you ain't gettin' paid. LOL

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do
jobs on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and
there, string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours
due to an expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the
skip, so hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about
8, my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping
up etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is
akin to crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained
black, so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush
them out manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or
should I use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also
clean out the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how
much? - bearing in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new
boiler.

You don't say if you also have a hot water cylinder, heated from the
boiler...
If you do, you need to treat this as another radiator when flushing out (but
you don't need to disconnect it and take it outside unless you really want
to!

I would suggest doing the following...

Drain system completely (So release as much water as will come out, then
undo all the bleed screws, starting with the highest ones)

Turn off all rads, both lockshield and TRV/normal valve (Making a note of
the number of turns on all the lockshield!)

Remove and hose all rads one at a time, and then replace on wall, but leave
switched off.

Remove old boiler (that's the thing that heats the water, not SWMBO!
(removing SWMBO during the work might be wise though!)

Connect a hose to the pipe that was connected to the boiler CH return (so
water was flowing out of this pipe into the boiler), and direct the other
end to the drain (not the patio!)

Connect another length of hose from the tap to the CH pipe that had the CH
water flowing out of the boiler

Fully turn on the last rad in each branch of the system (In mine, the boiler
is in the middle, so upstairs and downstairs are effectively two separate
branches off the boiler, if you get me) both the lockshield and the TRV (AND
CLOSE THE BLEED SCREW on all the rads!)

Make sure all the rads are off, except the last ones on each branch (It is
actually better to do one branch at a time.

Turn on the water and flush the pipe work (as the bleed screw is not open,
the radiator will not fill up, water should just flow along the bottom)

Run the water until it's clear on this branch

Now, open the next radiator along this branch (REMEMBER THE BLEED SCREW!)
and then (and only then!) turn off the previous radiator.

Go round all the radiators like this, and this should flush all the crap
out.

If you don't have TRV's fitted, do this now, while the system is drained!

Refill and bang in some inhibitor

IANAP (I am not a plumber!), this is just how I would personally approach
it!

Toby...

Refill and bang in some inhibitor

IANAP (I am not a plumber!), this is just how I would personally approach
it!

Toby...

Just to add to this, I would also refill, drain and refill again.

Check for leaks, then when you are 100% sure all is OK, add the inhibitor.

If you have any motorised valves, then say so before starting!

Toby...

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do
jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and
there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about
8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping
up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin
to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained
black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean
out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? -
bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.


TIA

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008


You flushed all individual radiators only 1 year ago so no problem.

Put in a system cleaner BEFORE fitting a new boiler and run it for a couple
of days
minimum.

Drain, refill and run a couple of hours. Drain, refill, run and drain. If
now the
water comes out clear then fit new boiler. Another fill and flush is
recommended
after the new boiler is fitted.

Cost is just the price of the system cleaner plus the inhibiter when all up
and running.

Phil L wrote:

Thanks for replies up to now - I'll check back tomorrow and in the meantime,
I'll have a think about what's been said up to now.
--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

In message , Phil L
writes
And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about 8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? - bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.

Yeah, you can stick some power flush in there , leave it in for a couple
of weeks , it should get rid of most of the crap

--
geoff

Phil L wrote:

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about 8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? - bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.

I would start by adding a chemical cleaner now and leaving it running
with the old boiler for at least a couple of days - preferably a week or
more.

I assume you are going for a sealed system rather than vented?

If so, then since you have flushed the rads not that long ago, you can
probably get away with doing them in situ this time. If you have not got
a decent drain point you need to add one (a hard piped one that has a
service valve on the inside, and a pipe that goes through a wall to a
gully outside is the easiest to use). To flush, turn off all rads but
one. Open the drain valve, and open the filling loop so you are
directing the full mains flow through the pipes and that one rad. Let it
flow until it is running clear. Once that one is, open the valves on the
next rad, and then go back and close them on the first (by doing it in
this way you can just leave the filling loop tap open). Rinse and repeat
until you have run out of rads.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Phil L
writes
And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do
jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and
there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about
8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping
up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin
to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained
black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean
out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? -
bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.

Yeah, you can stick some power flush in there , leave it in for a couple
of weeks , it should get rid of most of the crap

Put in X-800 and follow the instructions to the letter. Flush, remove old
boiler, fit new boiler, fit a magnaclean filter on the CH return pipe.
Fill, flush, insert X-100, monitor filter for 1/2 day after running system,
clean filter,. monitor filter every week and clean until no more debris
collected. Clean filter every year. Insert X-100 every 4 years, no need to
flush.

Heliotrope Smith wrote:
"Phil L" wrote in message


Drain, refill and run a couple of hours. Drain, refill, run and
drain. If now the
water comes out clear then fit new boiler. Another fill and flush is
recommended
after the new boiler is fitted.

Exactly what I did to our 25 + year old system, no problemo.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:20:17 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about 8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? - bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.


TIA

To flush the system of magnetite in the water you need sufficient
water velocity through the system to entrain the 'sludge'. You won't
get this by draining down from the header tank.

Your 'best' approach is to put some of the proprietary cleaning
products into the system and leave for a couple of weeks, that should
loosen 'stuff' not already entrained, then removed all raiators and
flush them through using a garden hose.

As your system seems severely contaminated, before replacing the
radiators, I would bridge each radiator 'space' in turn with a
'temporary hose, break the system at its lowest point, shut off each
radiator valve except one with the bridge and starting at the top
radiator and flush each 'leg' using the header tank as source.

In article , Phil L
scribeth thus
Phil L wrote:

Thanks for replies up to now - I'll check back tomorrow and in the meantime,
I'll have a think about what's been said up to now.

You wouldn't want to be doing that this weekend, it seems its going to
be nuts of the brass monkey weather;!...
--
Tony Sayer

On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:20:17 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about 8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? - bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.


TIA
Check the guarantee for your new boiler. Some manufacturers say the
guarantee will be invalidated if the whole system is not power flushed
after installation of the new boiler.

"DavidM" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:20:17 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

And would like some information WRT fitting it.
(please no lectures about Corgi registration claptrap)

The old boiler is still working, but not efficiently, and I have to do
jobs
on it daily to get it to do it's thing, bits of elastoplast here and
there,
string, elastic bands etc and not least, top it up every 6 hours due to an
expansion vessel problem - anyhoo, within days it's going in the skip, so
hurrah! etc.

My main question is about the radiators - they're quite old, at least 15
years, but the plumbing to them and to the existing boiler is only about
8,
my idea is to leave everything in place and just swap the boiler,
brilliant! - except....over the past few years, what with all the topping
up
etc, there has been no inhibitor in the system and the water now is akin
to
crude oil.
I took off all the downstairs rads last year and took them into the back
garden for a spot of hosepipe therapy, and the patio is still stained
black,
so my question is this; should I take off all the rads and flush them out
manually (this is not a problem, even with the upstairs ones), or should I
use some other method of flushing out the system, which will also clean
out
the pipework inbetween the rads, if so which / what, and how much? -
bearing
in mind that I have just forked out my last £240 on a new boiler.

Check the guarantee for your new boiler. Some manufacturers say the
guarantee will be invalidated if the whole system is not power flushed
after installation of the new boiler.

I would like them see that stick in court. What they want is a clean system.
Put on a Magnaclean and have X-100 inside and they can gripe. No crap then
gets into the boiler.

Phil L wrote:

Thanks for all replies, and this is my plan of attack, prior to hanging new
boiler:

1) take off all rads and blast them through with hosepipe, this will take a
few hours but I'd rather know for certiain that they aren't full of
'treacle', like they were last time.

2) hang all rads and refil the system adding a flushing additive, run
through on a low heat for 30 minutes, or according to manufactuers
instructions.

3) Drain system via bleed valve near front door, and rinse thoroughly.

4) Refil system, with added 'fernox' or similar inhibitor.

5) Hang new boiler.

I do realise that plumbers now offer a powerflush, but last time I looked it
was £200, and even then it was only as part of a major service or fitting of
a new boiler.....I reckon the flushing crap will set me back about £20 and
the same again for the inhibitor, so I'll save at least £150, and as an
added bonus, I get to play in dirty water for a day.

Phil L wrote:
Phil L wrote:

Thanks for all replies, and this is my plan of attack, prior to hanging new
boiler:

1) take off all rads and blast them through with hosepipe, this will take a
few hours but I'd rather know for certiain that they aren't full of
'treacle', like they were last time.

2) hang all rads and refil the system adding a flushing additive, run
through on a low heat for 30 minutes, or according to manufactuers
instructions.

3) Drain system via bleed valve near front door, and rinse thoroughly.

4) Refil system, with added 'fernox' or similar inhibitor.

5) Hang new boiler.

I do realise that plumbers now offer a powerflush, but last time I looked it
was �200, and even then it was only as part of a major service or fitting of
a new boiler.....I reckon the flushing crap will set me back about �20 and
the same again for the inhibitor, so I'll save at least �150, and as an
added bonus, I get to play in dirty water for a day.


I think half an hour is a bit optimistic! Can you arrange a few days
between adding and flushing?

"Add Fernox Superconcentrate Cleaner F3 via the radiator air-vent. When
pre-commission cleansing new systems Fernox Cleaner F3 should be
circulated for a minimum of 1 hour at normal operating temperature. For
cleansing existing systems, sludge and debris should be dispersed also
within 1 hour at normal operating temperatures. However, to remove
hardened iron oxides and limescale, the cleaning time can be extended to
up to 1 week under the normal heating cycle. If, a radiator still has a
cold spot after 1 hour, increase the flow through the radiator by
closing the valves on the other radiators. An additional or repeat dose
of Cleaner F3 may be necessary in some cases."
http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=sc_restorer&sub=2

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:
Phil L wrote:
Phil L wrote:

Thanks for all replies, and this is my plan of attack, prior to
hanging new boiler:

1) take off all rads and blast them through with hosepipe, this will
take a few hours but I'd rather know for certiain that they aren't
full of 'treacle', like they were last time.

2) hang all rads and refil the system adding a flushing additive, run
through on a low heat for 30 minutes, or according to manufactuers
instructions.

3) Drain system via bleed valve near front door, and rinse
thoroughly. 4) Refil system, with added 'fernox' or similar inhibitor.

5) Hang new boiler.

I do realise that plumbers now offer a powerflush, but last time I
looked it was ?200, and even then it was only as part of a major
service or fitting of a new boiler.....I reckon the flushing crap
will set me back about ?20 and the same again for the inhibitor, so
I'll save at least ?150, and as an added bonus, I get to play in
dirty water for a day.
I think half an hour is a bit optimistic! Can you arrange a few days
between adding and flushing?

not really as I'm working tomorrow and it's being fitted either on Saturday
or Sunday.....I suppose I could get it tomorrow and leave it in for 24
hours.


"Add Fernox Superconcentrate Cleaner F3 via the radiator air-vent.
When pre-commission cleansing new systems Fernox Cleaner F3 should be
circulated for a minimum of 1 hour at normal operating temperature.
For cleansing existing systems, sludge and debris should be dispersed
also within 1 hour at normal operating temperatures. However, to
remove hardened iron oxides and limescale, the cleaning time can be
extended to up to 1 week under the normal heating cycle. If, a
radiator still has a cold spot after 1 hour, increase the flow
through the radiator by closing the valves on the other radiators. An
additional or repeat dose of Cleaner F3 may be necessary in some
cases." http://www.fernox.com/?cccpage=sc_restorer&sub=2

Ah, but, the rads are being manually cleaned in the back yard - I'll be able
to see inside them and there won't be any cold spots.

Thanks for the info.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
Phil L wrote:

Thanks for all replies, and this is my plan of attack, prior to hanging
new
boiler:

1) take off all rads and blast them through with hosepipe, this will take
a
few hours but I'd rather know for certiain that they aren't full of
'treacle', like they were last time.

2) hang all rads and refil the system adding a flushing additive, run
through on a low heat for 30 minutes, or according to manufactuers
instructions.

3) Drain system via bleed valve near front door, and rinse thoroughly.

4) Refil system, with added 'fernox' or similar inhibitor.

5) Hang new boiler.

Sounds good. Go for it. The good thing when you DIY is that
you have plenty of time to flush inividual rads

Power flush won't be necessary doing it your way.


I do realise that plumbers now offer a powerflush, but last time I looked
it
was £200, and even then it was only as part of a major service or fitting
of
a new boiler.....I reckon the flushing crap will set me back about £20 and
the same again for the inhibitor, so I'll save at least £150, and as an
added bonus, I get to play in dirty water for a day.

Make sure you wear your wellies.

"Heliotrope Smith" wrote in message
...

"Phil L" wrote in message
om...
Phil L wrote:

Thanks for all replies, and this is my plan of attack, prior to hanging
new
boiler:

1) take off all rads and blast them through with hosepipe, this will
take
a
few hours but I'd rather know for certiain that they aren't full of
'treacle', like they were last time.

2) hang all rads and refil the system adding a flushing additive, run
through on a low heat for 30 minutes, or according to manufactuers
instructions.

3) Drain system via bleed valve near front door, and rinse thoroughly.

4) Refil system, with added 'fernox' or similar inhibitor.

5) Hang new boiler.

Sounds good. Go for it. The good thing when you DIY is that
you have plenty of time to flush inividual rads

Power flush won't be necessary doing it your way.


I do realise that plumbers now offer a powerflush, but last time I
looked
it
was £200, and even then it was only as part of a major service or
fitting
of
a new boiler.....I reckon the flushing crap will set me back about £20
and
the same again for the inhibitor, so I'll save at least £150, and as an
added bonus, I get to play in dirty water for a day.

Make sure you wear your wellies.

PS. keep sheep out of the garden!