Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:31:43 +0100, "RW" wrote:

Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................


In my last house (built 1895) I took up the floor boards, laid
fibreglass insulation across the joists and relaid the floors. It was
cheap to do and blocked draughts effectively. It was very disruptive
but the ideal opportunity to clear out masses of builders rubble, open
up blocked air bricks, replace joists which had succumbed to dry rot
and run cables through the void

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:31:43 +0100, "RW" wrote:

Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................


In my last house (built 1895) I took up the floor boards, laid
fibreglass insulation across the joists and relaid the floors. It was
cheap to do and blocked draughts effectively. It was very disruptive
but the ideal opportunity to clear out masses of builders rubble, open
up blocked air bricks, replace joists which had succumbed to dry rot
and run cables through the void


Hi Anna,

Did you actually lay the insulation across the joists and then nail the
boards through it or was it between them ?

On Oct 19, 2:31*pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:00:03 +0100, "RW" wrote:


"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 20:31:43 +0100, "RW" wrote:

Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................


In my last house (built 1895) I took up the floor boards, laid
fibreglass insulation across the joists and relaid the floors. It was
cheap to do and blocked draughts effectively. It was very disruptive
but the ideal opportunity to clear out masses of builders rubble, open
up blocked air bricks, replace joists which had succumbed to dry rot
and run cables through the void


Hi Anna,

Did you actually lay the insulation across the joists and then nail the
boards through it or was it between them ?

Across and screw through so there was good airflow under the
insulation. I didnt want the rot to reoccur

Anna



--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31=A0pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of =A3=A3=A3s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 189=
6
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them

The candle test works well too and can be done on a 'fix the big
drafts and repeat the test to find smaller drafts' basis

Anna

--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel: ***(+44) *01359 230642
Mob: * (+44) *07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk *

Anna Kettle wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31=A0pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of =A3=A3=A3s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 189=
6
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................
Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them

The candle test works well too and can be done on a 'fix the big
drafts and repeat the test to find smaller drafts' basis

Anna


Agreed.

Draughts are the promary cause of heatloss inmots old houses.

Fix these before anything.

I am intrigued by annas solution to using rockwool. I suppose it would
work, but the slightly more orthodox way would be to wedge celotex
between the joists, and I'd probably use expanding foam to fix and seal
it as well, and tape over with foil tape before re-laying the floor. And
attend to any underfloor gap to intrawall cavity spaces as well. If you
have e.g. stud walls plasterboarded or lathe and plastered over.


Definitely use the opportunity of lifting the floors to do any cable
renovation, and attend to underfloor ventilation as well.

We have in the past insulated the ground floor suspended timber floor
by laying garden netting loosely over the joists, fixed with staples,
then laying rockwool between the joists.

The only cost is the rockwool and we did this because the floor was
coming up anyway but I would suggest that the energy savings do not
justify taking the floor up just to do this job.

Much better, as others have said, to focus on filling gaps. Expanded
polystyrene for the big gaps and strips of foam pipe insulation wedged
between the floorboards for the small gaps.

Brendan.

On Oct 20, 8:55*am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am intrigued by annas solution to using rockwool. I suppose it would
work, but the slightly more orthodox way would be to wedge celotex
between the joists,

I was thinking the rockwool solution would end up with bouncy floor
but I suppose once its all screwed down it would be ok. One snag would
be laying the insulation down carefully enough whilst relaying the
floor - If you put your foot through it.... Also the effective
insulation wouldnt be as effective as filling in the joist as the
rockwool is compressed to almost nothing at the joist so you would end
up with strips of colder floor.

Dave Starling wrote:
On Oct 20, 8:55 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I am intrigued by annas solution to using rockwool. I suppose it would
work, but the slightly more orthodox way would be to wedge celotex
between the joists,

I was thinking the rockwool solution would end up with bouncy floor
but I suppose once its all screwed down it would be ok. One snag would
be laying the insulation down carefully enough whilst relaying the
floor - If you put your foot through it.... Also the effective
insulation wouldnt be as effective as filling in the joist as the
rockwool is compressed to almost nothing at the joist so you would end
up with strips of colder floor.

That happens anyway. Its cold bridging par excellence, but fitting slabs
between reduces joist heatloss to the bottom area of them only..

And you can improve matters slightly by laying e.g. insulation board
over the joists before screwing the floor back down.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:01:51 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31=A0pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of =A3=A3=A3s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 189=
6
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them

The candle test works well too and can be done on a 'fix the big
drafts and repeat the test to find smaller drafts' basis

Anna

Candle test?
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31*pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them


Who does that? (Yellow pages? any idea what section?)
That sounds like it might be interesting.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

mogga wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31 pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................
Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them


Who does that? (Yellow pages? any idea what section?)
That sounds like it might be interesting.


heating engineers IIRC.

Phone BCO and ask,. I had one done on a new build.

They looked at plans, and calculated heatloss of all the elements, and
solar gains etc.

mogga wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:01:51 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31=A0pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of =A3=A3=A3s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 189=
6
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................
Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them
The candle test works well too and can be done on a 'fix the big
drafts and repeat the test to find smaller drafts' basis

Anna

Candle test?
A small flame is very sensitive to air movements..you use it to find
draughts..heading upstream agsainst the way the flame bends..

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:25:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

mogga wrote:
On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31 pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................
Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them


Who does that? (Yellow pages? any idea what section?)
That sounds like it might be interesting.


heating engineers IIRC.

Phone BCO and ask,. I had one done on a new build.

Ta. Did it pass?



They looked at plans, and calculated heatloss of all the elements, and
solar gains etc.

--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 13:26:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

mogga wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:01:51 GMT, (Anna Kettle) wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:31=A0pm, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of =A3=A3=A3s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 189=
6
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................
Dont reckon, get a energy audit, the most important thing for an old
home is a blower door test, the tech will pinpoint air leaks with a
smoke stick and give you a printout of air exchanges per hour that you
have , what it should be and what to fix. Spray foam would seal and
insulate best. I was showed leaks where I never imagined they would be
and fixed them
The candle test works well too and can be done on a 'fix the big
drafts and repeat the test to find smaller drafts' basis

Anna

Candle test?
A small flame is very sensitive to air movements..you use it to find
draughts..heading upstream agsainst the way the flame bends..

Ah ok. nowt more scientific than that.
Thanks
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

On 19 Oct, 20:31, "RW" wrote:
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................

Dear RW
Define Sh** loads first. Generally about 10% of the loss of heat in a
house goes downwards but with a leaking ST floor that may well be
more. Most people have floor coverings of some sort.
Once you know what you are loosing you can work out the capital costs
and payback to rectify the losses.

The cheapest way is to lay a good underlay and carpet.

If you want wooden floors then there is a spectrum of responses
starting with the most expensive

1) get rid of all the ST floors and put in solid with as much
insulation as poss under and tack floorboards on the top (not even
remotely likely to be cost effective but if (and only if) you have to
replace the floors anyway due to rot....ok. Note this is an all or
nothing not just one room as you have to maintain sub-floor
ventilation
2) lift up all boards - put polythene on oversite and blind with sand
or the like to check water vapour coming up from the ground - fit TP10
or the like (PU foam) to the depth of the joists and foam up any gaps
really well - lay SDQ (sound deadening quilt) to provide draft
proofing and a nice surface bounce for the boards - lay boards close
fitting (will not be possible to use floor cramps as no access to
joists so use folding sliding wedges off battens nailed to joist
through paper of SDQ) and varnish the top with a vapour check of PU or
the like
3) staple netting to the underside of the joists and put in Rockwool
batts or the like and as above
4) have a slight step up into the room and lay thin insulation on the
joists as Anna suggested

Chris

"RW" wrote in message
...
Ok, since checking our "Carbon Footprint" and realising I'm chucking away
sh*tloads of £££s in lost heat costs because of draughts in our 1896
semi-detached solid wall cottage I reckon the only way left to insulate
(Given that it's already DGd and has 200mm of loft insulation) is to stop
the draught under the wooden floors downstairs.

So,
Who's done what and what has it cost with a ball-park pay-back period....

Let the thread commence...................



Thanks all for the useful suggestions and advice.

During the coming months as I get "Roundtuits" I'll tackle the
draughtproofing a room at a time.
I don't want to spend humungous amounts of money as the property isn't
actually mine and is rented. But, with careful consideration to the areas
needing the work done first I'll be able to reduce the draughts and lessen
the bills.

Time to call in some favours for the building supplies companies I work at
every day and get me some freebies ;-)

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:58:15 +0000, Anna Kettle wrote:

Across and screw through so there was good airflow under the
insulation. I didnt want the rot to reoccur

In my kitchen I laid garden netting loosely across the joists and rockwool
on the netting between the joists.

--
John Stumbles

87.5% of statistics are made up