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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.business.agriculture,uk.d-i-y
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Good Grief
In message , andrew
writes Tim Lamb wrote: Ah! I had not considered you as a Hetas adviser. I'm not, the commercial stuff I did didn't need part J. Unfortunately the firm I was doing that for went bust when the Austrian boiler manufactures decided to market to GB directly, order book suddenly vanished. The staff and directors seem all to have been paid off, it was only creditors that were caught, that included my last months bill ;-(. Let us hope their pension investments are in something Icelandic. Angela is badgering me to install a wood burner to back up the central heating. I have got as far as discovering that anything over 4.9kW requires an air supply and that you can mix gravity water with pumped CH water with a neutraliser but my cheque book hasn't twitched yet:-) It's only a 6" air brick! Actually 5kW is fine for a back up. Yes. Actually there is a suspended floor so I am considering installing a duct terminating next to the hearth. Logistically, any log burner will only operate while there is somebody to light and feed so early morning heat will always be gas. Lining the existing chimney looks straight forward as does adapting the register plate. Where I am struggling is whether to go for room heat only , graft a 2-3kW gravity back boiler into the existing gas system or go for something with a wrap around boiler producing 10kW or so but, presumably, needing much more complication by way of controls. In fact for mild days you'll have noticed that a cheap reversible air conditioner is cheaper than gas or oil because the delta T it pumps through is low and the COP is high. I have ground/water source heat pump in mind for a different project. Air-con is something I have never considered for a domestic use. The neutraliser is just a ridiculously small, expensive thermal store, I'll bet you can do it cheaper with a hot water cyclinder and some zone valves. 2-300ukp from Dunsley. I assume there is a limit to how much heat you can transfer using gravity and a fixed bore/head system. I must ask them. They don't seem to answer e-mail:-( cross posted to uk.d-i-y regards -- Tim Lamb |
#2
Posted to uk.business.agriculture,uk.d-i-y
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Good Grief
On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 08:56:13 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:
The neutraliser is just a ridiculously small, expensive thermal store, I'll bet you can do it cheaper with a hot water cyclinder and some zone valves. 2-300ukp from Dunsley. Not cheap, the trick that the neutraliser performs is to have all the inlets/outlets at the same static pressure. Not sure if all inlet and all outlets have to be the same pressure or if just all the members of a set have to be the same with the other set at a different pressure, This could be tricky to arrange on a cylinder, adding extra primary connections isn't that easy on a cylinder as access inside is a tad restricted. Getting something fabricated might be an option. I assume there is a limit to how much heat you can transfer using gravity and a fixed bore/head system. There probably is but I'd be using 28mm tube for the gravity loop and that is well capable of shifting a few kW from a wood burner. -- Cheers Dave. |
#3
Posted to uk.business.agriculture,uk.d-i-y
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Good Grief
On Oct 9, 12:02*pm, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote: On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 08:56:13 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote: The neutraliser is just a ridiculously small, expensive thermal store, I'll bet you can do it cheaper with a hot water cyclinder and some zone valves. 2-300ukp from Dunsley. Not cheap, the trick that the neutraliser performs is to have all the inlets/outlets at the same static pressure. Not sure if all inlet and all outlets have to be the same pressure or if just all the members of a set have to be the same with the other set at a different pressure, This could be tricky to arrange on a cylinder, adding extra primary connections isn't that easy on a cylinder as access inside is a tad restricted. Getting something fabricated might be an option. I assume there is a limit to how much heat you can transfer using gravity and a fixed bore/head system. There probably is but I'd be using 28mm tube for the gravity loop and that is well capable of shifting a few kW from a wood burner. If its just for use if the main system fails, an electric immersion element is an easy low cost option. 3kW is adequate for a hw cylinder. NT |
#4
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Good Grief
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#5
Posted to uk.business.agriculture,uk.d-i-y
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Good Grief
Tim Lamb wrote:
Yes. Actually there is a suspended floor so I am considering installing a duct terminating next to the hearth. Logistically, any log burner will only operate while there is somebody to light and feed so early morning heat will always be gas. In which case the dhw cylinder will probably be hot before the woodstove is lit. Lining the existing chimney looks straight forward as does adapting the register plate. Where I am struggling is whether to go for room heat only , graft a 2-3kW gravity back boiler into the existing gas system or go for something with a wrap around boiler producing 10kW or so but, presumably, needing much more complication by way of controls. Its all to do with capital expense, I serviced a log gasifier which heats a large house, the owner was a timber framing contractor and his wife stoked the device, it was filled each afternoon and then set itself going at 6:00 the next day, it could be reloaded during the cycle and I think it was 25kW(t), now that's about 7kg of dry wood an hour at 70% efficiency, double for fresh oak. I wouldn't want to traipse through the house with that much. It cost GBP20k installed with a heatstore. I doubt I often put more than 4kg/day through my little Jotul (30 years old but relined with bits cut from broken manhole covers). I haven't plumbed in either of my wood burners. I have ground/water source heat pump in mind for a different project. Air-con is something I have never considered for a domestic use. An air conditioner is a heat pump when run in reverse, its just air sourced. Actually they run the same way, just swap the hot end for the cold end of the circulating fluid I think. AJH |
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