Hi,

I have downloaded the basic Microsoft Accounting Express. It's the
freeby "taster" to the full program - but probably has all the
functionality for my (my friend's) small business needs. I can see and
understand the flows to create quotes, invoices and receive payments.
I can also see the cash sales and bank reconciliation - which will
probably cater for the business needs.

The problem I have is a lack of any bookkeeping knowledge.
Microsoft Accounting offers/requires you to fill in what I believe are
called nominal codes. Now, I have learned that these codes help one
categorise expenses in a hierarchical manner - but I don't know even
the basics about P&L or any such bookkeeping concepts. I'm thinking
that I could put in codes just to make the software work and force a
quote through to payment and not understand the implications of this
in accounting terms. Our aim is to configure the software in the
simplest way. We want to work out which invoices haven't been paid,
what our cash flow will look like in the next month, the usual small
business accounting needs really. I think I need the world's most
basic accounting / bookkeeping book that makes no reference to any
particular software but will guide me on which values to put in these
fields when required by the software. Any suggestions on a good
starting point for this knowledge? The documentation available with
the software doesn't go into this at all - which I don't have a
problem with as the software can't make assumptions on what are
appropriate values for your data.

I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,

Clive

Clive wrote:
SNIP
I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,

Hi Clive.
When I set up our business I didn't have the first clue anout anything
other than claiming back petrol receipts and overtime at the end of each
month.

I aquired a very cheap copy of Quickbooks Pro 6.0. No instruction book,
just bumbeld my way through the intuitive icons and help screens.

That was in 1999 and carried on using the same version of quickbooks
through until 2006 when the database had grown so big and messy I
decided to bite the bullet and install the "new" Quckbooks 2004 I had
purchased 2 years earlier but didn't have the balls to change over to!

Still running QB 2004 even though it's now a retired version. I'll keep
using it until such time as a later version of QB has something very
useful...

So, the point I'm trying to make is, I could still be running the
business very well on a very outdated and long retired version of
software reaching it's 10th aniversary !

Most companies have to upgrade after 3 years (I think that's the Intuit
sunset period for their software) however you can pick up old "retired"
versions of Quickbooks with manuals, install codes the lot for next to
nothing. The manual I received with 2004 gives ample elementry
"accounting" advice required to set up the software and run the sortware
efficiently in accordance with any type of business.

The beauty of older versions is that they have been fully patched and
upgraded so by the time they reach 3 years old they are bug-free!

Hope that helps in some way.

Cheers
Pete


--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.
http://www.bodysolid-gym-equipment.co.uk
http://www.trade-price-supplements.co.uk
http://www.water-rower.co.uk

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Still running QB 2004 even though it's now a retired version. I'll keep
using it until such time as a later version of QB has something very
useful...

Intuit are little buggers for retiring versions. I had QB8, which they
"retired", to the point where when I changed machines I couldn't re-
install it as they'd turned the activation servers off. So I had to
"upgrade" (at full retail price, of course) to the then-current, QB2005.

That's just reached end-of-life, and if the buggers ring me ONCE more, I
promise I will go postal at 'em... The current version has two editions -
£50 Basic, and £300 Pro. The Basic version doesn't even allow aging of
invoices. And, of course, there's no upgrade pricing.

Sorry, QB, you can _shove_ it.

Sage Instant Accounts would be my choice. Or, if you're of an open-source
bent, LedgerSMB is where I'm likely to be heading.

Clive wrote:

I have downloaded the basic Microsoft Accounting Express. It's the
freeby "taster" to the full program - but probably has all the
functionality for my (my friend's) small business needs. I can see and
understand the flows to create quotes, invoices and receive payments.
I can also see the cash sales and bank reconciliation - which will
probably cater for the business needs.

The problem I have is a lack of any bookkeeping knowledge.
Microsoft Accounting offers/requires you to fill in what I believe are
called nominal codes. Now, I have learned that these codes help one
categorise expenses in a hierarchical manner - but I don't know even
the basics about P&L or any such bookkeeping concepts. I'm thinking
that I could put in codes just to make the software work and force a
quote through to payment and not understand the implications of this
in accounting terms. Our aim is to configure the software in the
simplest way. We want to work out which invoices haven't been paid,
what our cash flow will look like in the next month, the usual small
business accounting needs really. I think I need the world's most
basic accounting / bookkeeping book that makes no reference to any
particular software but will guide me on which values to put in these
fields when required by the software. Any suggestions on a good
starting point for this knowledge? The documentation available with
the software doesn't go into this at all - which I don't have a
problem with as the software can't make assumptions on what are
appropriate values for your data.

I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,


Dare I suggest that you don't faff around with software but instead
use a simple pre-printed accounting book? Not a text book, it's a
book of pre-printed forms that you fill in daily, weekly or monthly.
They have been around for decades. You can buy them in W H Smith or
any good stationer.

You don't need any training because they include simple commonsense
guidance as to what to record, and where. You then give them to your
book-keeper or accountant (together with all your receipts, invoices,
petty cash vouchers and cheque book stubs) who will find them an
extremely good basis for completing your accounts in double quick
time. They will have the job done in the time it takes just to sort
out the queries that are typical with a software "solution".

There are versions for VAT registered and non-VAT registered
businesses. Cost? A mere £10.99.

VAT registered:
http://tinyurl.com/4qkfwx

Non-VAT registered:
http://tinyurl.com/4nxv8v

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:56:12 -0700 (PDT), Clive
wrote:

Hi,

I have downloaded the basic Microsoft Accounting Express. It's the
freeby "taster" to the full program - but probably has all the
functionality for my (my friend's) small business needs. I can see and
understand the flows to create quotes, invoices and receive payments.
I can also see the cash sales and bank reconciliation - which will
probably cater for the business needs.

The problem I have is a lack of any bookkeeping knowledge.
Microsoft Accounting offers/requires you to fill in what I believe are
called nominal codes. Now, I have learned that these codes help one
categorise expenses in a hierarchical manner - but I don't know even
the basics about P&L or any such bookkeeping concepts. I'm thinking
that I could put in codes just to make the software work and force a
quote through to payment and not understand the implications of this
in accounting terms. Our aim is to configure the software in the
simplest way. We want to work out which invoices haven't been paid,
what our cash flow will look like in the next month, the usual small
business accounting needs really. I think I need the world's most
basic accounting / bookkeeping book that makes no reference to any
particular software but will guide me on which values to put in these
fields when required by the software. Any suggestions on a good
starting point for this knowledge? The documentation available with
the software doesn't go into this at all - which I don't have a
problem with as the software can't make assumptions on what are
appropriate values for your data.

I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,

Clive

Last time I looked at this it had a specimen company figures you could
use and learn a lot from by playing with it. Does your version have
this? They might have removed it from the *free* version.

This might help you with the problem as well.

http://www.securetransact.net/infosh...al_ledger.html

"Bruce" wrote in message
...


Dare I suggest that you don't faff around with software but instead
use a simple pre-printed accounting book? Not a text book, it's a
book of pre-printed forms that you fill in daily, weekly or monthly.
They have been around for decades. You can buy them in W H Smith or
any good stationer.

You don't need any training because they include simple commonsense
guidance as to what to record, and where. You then give them to your
book-keeper or accountant (together with all your receipts, invoices,
petty cash vouchers and cheque book stubs) who will find them an
extremely good basis for completing your accounts in double quick
time. They will have the job done in the time it takes just to sort
out the queries that are typical with a software "solution".

I think you should try the software..
I downloaded, installed, bypassed activation, setup a dummy none vat
registered company, a none stock item, raised and paid an invoice in about
15 minutes.

No I don't do accounting but it does come with help.

The express version is probably ok for a plumber or similar where its
services that are being traded, its not going to manage stocks so its a bit
limited for a business with actual stock to sell.

Clive wrote:
Hi,

I have downloaded the basic Microsoft Accounting Express. It's the
freeby "taster" to the full program - but probably has all the
functionality for my (my friend's) small business needs. I can see and
understand the flows to create quotes, invoices and receive payments.
I can also see the cash sales and bank reconciliation - which will
probably cater for the business needs.

The problem I have is a lack of any bookkeeping knowledge.
Microsoft Accounting offers/requires you to fill in what I believe are
called nominal codes. Now, I have learned that these codes help one
categorise expenses in a hierarchical manner - but I don't know even
the basics about P&L or any such bookkeeping concepts. I'm thinking
that I could put in codes just to make the software work and force a
quote through to payment and not understand the implications of this
in accounting terms. Our aim is to configure the software in the
simplest way. We want to work out which invoices haven't been paid,
what our cash flow will look like in the next month, the usual small
business accounting needs really. I think I need the world's most
basic accounting / bookkeeping book that makes no reference to any
particular software but will guide me on which values to put in these
fields when required by the software. Any suggestions on a good
starting point for this knowledge? The documentation available with
the software doesn't go into this at all - which I don't have a
problem with as the software can't make assumptions on what are
appropriate values for your data.

I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,

Clive

The number one rule for software 'solutions' - find out if you can
export the data in a useful format.

If you enter data into Microsoft Account Express, Sage, Quickbooks or
anything else - what are you going to do if you have to change to
another package? What are you going to do if your accountants can't
handle the format your package uses? (Don't imagine for one moment that
they will install the one you use.)

Also, don't imagine that you will be able to stick with the taster
version. There will be something that forces you up to the next version.
Some annoying thing like not handling changes in VAT rates halfway
through a year, not allowing cheques for more than £99.99, won't print,
or whatever.

Intuit (Quickbooks) have managed to annoy swathes of their customers by
abandoning versions/markets, not supporting seemingly obvious platforms,
etc.

--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:11:17 +0100 Rod wrote :
The number one rule for software 'solutions' - find out if you can
export the data in a useful format.

If you enter data into Microsoft Account Express, Sage, Quickbooks or
anything else - what are you going to do if you have to change to
another package? What are you going to do if your accountants can't
handle the format your package uses? (Don't imagine for one moment
that they will install the one you use.)

I've never tried doing it, but would be surprised if you could
automatically transfer data from Sage/QB/MS to another package, but for
the size of business under discussion manually entering an opening trial
balance is not going to be very onerous.

Having a package who data can be handled by your accountant is a huge
time and money saver IME. I give my accountant the core P&L and BS
reports and a QB data disk and he can run whatever reports he wants
against the data. Switching halved my accounting bill as compared to his
predecessor who had everything as printouts.

As to setting up the account heads, I would suggest that the OP gets his
accountant to set out what is required.


--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In message
,
Clive writes
Hi,

I have downloaded the basic Microsoft Accounting Express. It's the
freeby "taster" to the full program - but probably has all the
functionality for my (my friend's) small business needs. I can see and
understand the flows to create quotes, invoices and receive payments.
I can also see the cash sales and bank reconciliation - which will
probably cater for the business needs.

The problem I have is a lack of any bookkeeping knowledge.
Microsoft Accounting offers/requires you to fill in what I believe are
called nominal codes. Now, I have learned that these codes help one
categorise expenses in a hierarchical manner - but I don't know even
the basics about P&L or any such bookkeeping concepts. I'm thinking
that I could put in codes just to make the software work and force a
quote through to payment and not understand the implications of this
in accounting terms. Our aim is to configure the software in the
simplest way. We want to work out which invoices haven't been paid,
what our cash flow will look like in the next month, the usual small
business accounting needs really. I think I need the world's most
basic accounting / bookkeeping book that makes no reference to any
particular software but will guide me on which values to put in these
fields when required by the software. Any suggestions on a good
starting point for this knowledge? The documentation available with
the software doesn't go into this at all - which I don't have a
problem with as the software can't make assumptions on what are
appropriate values for your data.

I'm asking the question here because I'm assuming there will be
some small business people participating in this group who can
understand where I am coming from - rather than an "accountancy" or
"bookkeeping" group that will make assumptions about my knowledge or
give me too detailed info for my needs.


Thanks for any (useful) suggestions,

Clive

Hi Clive,

It's way OT in here but I'll try....

If you were doing your books the old fashioned way (with a pen and
paper) you would try to 'categorise' each sale/purchase etc.

Ie, rather than just seeing 'I sold this much' and 'spent that much' you
would get something like, I spent 3 pounds on electrical gear and sold
it for 6. I also spent 8 pounds on doojiflips and sold them for 3.

Even if all of your sales are for the same type of thing, you would want
to keep an eye on where your costs went, so even though you had a total
expenditure of 20 pounds, it might be useful to know that x went on heat
and light (electric bills), y went on advertising etc etc.

That is the basic crux of nominal codes. A good accounting package will
work out for you at the end of the year what tax you might pay.
Difference between buying and selling is GP, but a fully deductible
expense isn't cost of sales. Ie, any PAYE you pay out for example won't
be taxed.

That is a very, very simple description but I do hope it helps.

On a separate note, I am actually a "Sage Developer". I pay them a lot
of money every year to have access to every product they have ever
released (and every bloody version of them). I can pick up the phone and
talk to Sage's own programmers etc etc. My software (how I make a
living) integrates heavily with Sage, hence why I (and my customers)
expect it to all work together.

I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.

Hth
Someone

somebody wrote:

I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.


My point exactly. For a small business, software is a waste of time.

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:11:17 +0100 Rod wrote :
The number one rule for software 'solutions' - find out if you can
export the data in a useful format.

If you enter data into Microsoft Account Express, Sage, Quickbooks or
anything else - what are you going to do if you have to change to
another package? What are you going to do if your accountants can't
handle the format your package uses? (Don't imagine for one moment
that they will install the one you use.)

I've never tried doing it, but would be surprised if you could
automatically transfer data from Sage/QB/MS to another package, but for
the size of business under discussion manually entering an opening trial
balance is not going to be very onerous.

Having a package who data can be handled by your accountant is a huge
time and money saver IME. I give my accountant the core P&L and BS
reports and a QB data disk and he can run whatever reports he wants
against the data. Switching halved my accounting bill as compared to his
predecessor who had everything as printouts.

As to setting up the account heads, I would suggest that the OP gets his
accountant to set out what is required.


I do agree that Sage to QB (or whatever) as a specific export is
unlikely. But, if taking on the overhead of changing packages, simple
formats like spreadsheets can be sufficient. But it is something to know
about before jumping into the pond.

Indeed, sounds like volumes wouldn't be too onerous. But the problem
area can be historic data. Depending on company, it can be vital to have
access to that and several years of data can mount up. Also surprising
how many suppliers and customers can accumulate in some businesses. Of
course, the other issue of re-keying is accuracy. :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"somebody" wrote in message
...
In message
, Clive
writes
Hi,


I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.

Hth
Someone

On the KISS principle, I am a self employed and made up a very simple
excell spreadsheet, monthly income expenses car costs, fuel (less 20%
private use) telephone, post etc, I don't carry stock,
The spreadsheet totals everything up, and at the end of the year I just put
the figures in the relevent boxes on my tax return and bung it off to the
taxman.
I couldn't justify the £200 + I would pay to an accountant, but I have a
friend with a couple of shops who uses an accountant and reckons it saves on
his tax bill.

Des

Bruce wrote:
somebody wrote:
I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.


My point exactly. For a small business, software is a waste of time.


I'd meet you halfway on that. Enter the figures in a spreadsheet and
juggle them around any way you want at a later date, which is what
accounting packages try to stop you doing IME.

Dieseldes wrote:
"somebody" wrote in message
...
In message
, Clive
writes
Hi,

I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.

Hth
Someone

On the KISS principle, I am a self employed and made up a very simple
excell spreadsheet, monthly income expenses car costs, fuel (less 20%
private use) telephone, post etc, I don't carry stock,
The spreadsheet totals everything up, and at the end of the year I just put
the figures in the relevent boxes on my tax return and bung it off to the
taxman.
I couldn't justify the £200 + I would pay to an accountant, but I have a
friend with a couple of shops who uses an accountant and reckons it saves on
his tax bill.

Des


IME that £200 will go up in line with your turnover, even if the number
of transactions stays the same

Bruce wrote:
somebody wrote:

I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.


My point exactly. For a small business, software is a waste of time.

That's a bit of an admission - it suggests that the computer
programmer doesn't believe in his own product! :-)

I'm in a similar situation (Softare Engineer with own Ltd. company).
Although I am *definitely* not a financial/commercial programmer (I
work on low leve communications code in the main) I wrote my own
accounting package using a database to hold the data.

Apart from anything else I was able to customise it to *exactly* my
requirements to simplify data entry. Since it's sitting on top of a
database if my accountant wants some specialised information it's
quick and easy to extract what he wants.

--
Chris Green

In message ,
writes
Bruce wrote:
somebody wrote:

I'm a self employed computer programmer for a living and I have Sage CDs
coming out of my ears... but guess what... I do my books with a pen and
paper ... it's easier.


My point exactly. For a small business, software is a waste of time.

That's a bit of an admission - it suggests that the computer
programmer doesn't believe in his own product! :-)

:-) not at all! It would simply be overkill for me to use it. A bit like
buying a 44ton lorry to go and get the milk from the corner shop.

BTW I don't write accounting software - my software integrates with
third party accounting software - including Sage.

Kind Regards
Someone

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:10:41 +0100 Bruce wrote :
My point exactly. For a small business, software is a waste of time.

I think that very much depends on the business. If you are doing cash
transactions only, perhaps, but if you are invoicing people and getting
paid later, then the ability to be able to instantly see balances and
knock out a statement are very useful.

For myself I guess we are a small business but until recently were
sending out several hundred invoices a year to local councils. I would
certainly not have wanted to do this without QuickBooks. And that's
before you get to VAT accounting - painless if the computer does it.

More than a few accountants are reputedly sniffy about QB because you
can go back and correct things later whilst the 'proper' way is to put
in a journal entry. Mine takes the pragmatic view that if I wanted to
fiddle things the transactions would probably not be in the accounts at
all.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Tony Bryer wrote:

More than a few accountants are reputedly sniffy about QB because you
can go back and correct things later whilst the 'proper' way is to put
in a journal entry. Mine takes the pragmatic view that if I wanted to
fiddle things the transactions would probably not be in the accounts at
all.

Which is how my home-grown accounting system saves me time, I make the
assumption that I'm not trying to fiddle the books!

--
Chris Green

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:18:05 +0100, Dieseldes wrote:

On the KISS principle, I am a self employed and made up a very simple
excell spreadsheet,

Thats how I keep track of things here but the real "books" are paper based
with printouts from the spreadsheets.

Mine has evolved over the last 12 years but has been pretty stable for
most of those years the last big chnage was the switch from cash
accounting for VAT to the Fixed Rate Scheme.

The spreadsheet totals everything up, and at the end of the year I just
put the figures in the relevent boxes on my tax return and bung it off
to the taxman. I couldn't justify the £200 + I would pay to an
accountant,

A good accountant will save on your tax bill, there are lots of tax
avoidance tricks that only those with the finger on the pulse of HMR&C get
to know about and it's not just the end of year income tax that they can
advise on either. All the other taxes, capital gains & inheritance are
ones that spring quickly to mind both of which really need forward
planning unless you really want to give lots of money to HMR&C. Though
that is falling more into the remit of a Financial Advisor than a tax
accountant.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:52:15 +0100, Bruce wrote:

You don't need any training because they include simple commonsense
guidance as to what to record, and where. You then give them to your
book-keeper or accountant (together with all your receipts, invoices,
petty cash vouchers and cheque book stubs) who will find them an
extremely good basis for completing your accounts in double quick
time.

If you go that route make sure everything is presented in a date sorted
manner in relevant bundles not a couple of shoe boxes with the papers just
crammed in. If an accountant accepted such a mess you'd be paying through
the nose for him to sort it out before even starting to do the accounts.

But a simple cash accounting book is more than adequate for the self
employed, though doing the maths is can be a bit of a chore and error
prone. That is why I keep my business data in a spreadsheet on the
computer it does the maths far quicker and more accurately than I could.
It also allows simple tracking of creditors and debitors.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:52:15 +0100, Bruce wrote:

You don't need any training because they include simple commonsense
guidance as to what to record, and where. You then give them to your
book-keeper or accountant (together with all your receipts, invoices,
petty cash vouchers and cheque book stubs) who will find them an
extremely good basis for completing your accounts in double quick
time.

If you go that route make sure everything is presented in a date sorted
manner in relevant bundles not a couple of shoe boxes with the papers just
crammed in. If an accountant accepted such a mess you'd be paying through
the nose for him to sort it out before even starting to do the accounts.


That's good general advice, applying equally whichever system of book
keeping is used.


But a simple cash accounting book is more than adequate for the self
employed, though doing the maths is can be a bit of a chore and error
prone. That is why I keep my business data in a spreadsheet on the
computer it does the maths far quicker and more accurately than I could.
It also allows simple tracking of creditors and debitors.


All depends on the size of the business and the number of
transactions. I would not dream of suggesting use of an accounts book
for a business that employed several people and issued more than
several invoices a day, for example. Also, an accounts book is not a
good source of up to date data for making decisions about the future
direction of an expanding business.

But for many sole traders or a small partnerships (e.g. man and wife)
it is all that is needed.