Just had the second of these type of hoses (purpose manufactured with
machine crimped ends) burst on me. This one very dramatically as it
snapped clean off at the crimp point (the first just leaked at the crimping
and spread water overnight across the floor). This one was on the output
side of a water softener which has been installed for twelve years now so
perhaps I should not complain; and of course we didn't notice until water
started pouring out of a down stairs light switch. (the softener is
upstairs). Perhaps I should change them every five or six years! Do they
have a shelf life? i.e. is my five year old unused spare worth using now
or should I go and purchase a completely new set. The washing machine and
the dishwasher have the same type of hoses. Would I save more
inconvenience (drying out the underfloor area and redecorating etc.) by
replacing those all as well at the same time.. Whenever I've checked them
at service intervals they show no signs of damage or where but it's hard to
see with these crimped ends and smooth shiny coating. Anyone else had the
same problem and perhaps some ideas.. Is there an electronic flood alarm
that I could place in the underfloor space to alert us (if we happen to be
in). I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they
close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure change might just have
done the trick. If that was the case then it had been shedding water for
about fiteen minutes but long enough to make a considerable mess..

Michael

"Michael Shergold" wrote in message
...
Just had the second of these type of hoses (purpose manufactured with
machine crimped ends) burst on me. This one very dramatically as it
snapped clean off at the crimp point (the first just leaked at the
crimping and spread water overnight across the floor). This one was on
the output side of a water softener which has been installed for twelve
years now so perhaps I should not complain; and of course we didn't notice
until water started pouring out of a down stairs light switch. (the
softener is upstairs). Perhaps I should change them every five or six
years! Do they have a shelf life? i.e. is my five year old unused spare
worth using now or should I go and purchase a completely new set. The
washing machine and the dishwasher have the same type of hoses. Would I
save more inconvenience (drying out the underfloor area and redecorating
etc.) by replacing those all as well at the same time.. Whenever I've
checked them at service intervals they show no signs of damage or where
but it's hard to see with these crimped ends and smooth shiny coating.
Anyone else had the same problem and perhaps some ideas.. Is there an
electronic flood alarm that I could place in the underfloor space to alert
us (if we happen to be in). I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck
valve shut as they close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure
change might just have done the trick. If that was the case then it had
been shedding water for about fiteen minutes but long enough to make a
considerable mess..

Michael

I suppose shock loads imposed by some taps may cause earlier fatigue.

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:28:46 +0100, Michael Shergold wrote:

I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they
close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure change might just
have done the trick.

Water hammer is very powerful and damaging. What has actually happened
with the failed end, "snapped clean off at the crimp point" doesn't really
tell us much. What snapped where? The plastic, the crimp, the hose?

A torbeck shouldn't shut with thunk has it got the right flow restrictor
fitted? They come with two restrictors one for Low Pressure and one for
High Pressure, giveing three fitting options no flow restrictor (below 1
bar/14psi (ie gravity fed, no more than about 30' head), the LP one (1 - 4
bar/14 to 60psi, low side of the normal range mains water pressure) or the
HP one (over 4bar/60psi, high side of normal mains water pressure).

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:28:46 +0100, Michael Shergold wrote:

I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they
close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure change might just
have done the trick.

Water hammer is very powerful and damaging. What has actually happened
with the failed end, "snapped clean off at the crimp point" doesn't really
tell us much. What snapped where? The plastic, the crimp, the hose?

A torbeck shouldn't shut with thunk has it got the right flow restrictor
fitted? They come with two restrictors one for Low Pressure and one for
High Pressure, giveing three fitting options no flow restrictor (below 1
bar/14psi (ie gravity fed, no more than about 30' head), the LP one (1 - 4
bar/14 to 60psi, low side of the normal range mains water pressure) or the
HP one (over 4bar/60psi, high side of normal mains water pressure).

--
Cheers
Dave.




I get a thunk if I have left my hose pipe on the outside tap - with the gun
on the end turned off. The hose must act as a recoil amplifier. It rattles
the hoses behind the dishwasher and washer.

Michael Shergold wrote:
Just had the second of these type of hoses (purpose manufactured with
machine crimped ends) burst on me. This one very dramatically as it
snapped clean off at the crimp point (the first just leaked at the
crimping and spread water overnight across the floor). This one was
on the output side of a water softener which has been installed for
twelve years now so perhaps I should not complain; and of course we
didn't notice until water started pouring out of a down stairs light
switch. (the softener is upstairs). Perhaps I should change them
every five or six years! Do they have a shelf life? i.e. is my five
year old unused spare worth using now or should I go and purchase a
completely new set

Its possible that the softner had an effect on the hose. AFAIUI waters
natural state is to contain impurities and if they are not present the water
absorbs them from hoses etc.

These long pole window cleaning systems use softened water without detergent
to remove dirt from windows. I've also had experience of pressure washers
with oil fired heaters suffering damage to the heat exchangers when used on
distilled water supplies.




.. The washing machine and the dishwasher have the
same type of hoses. Would I save more inconvenience (drying out the
underfloor area and redecorating etc.) by replacing those all as well
at the same time.. Whenever I've checked them at service intervals
they show no signs of damage or where but it's hard to see with these
crimped ends and smooth shiny coating. Anyone else had the same
problem and perhaps some ideas.. Is there an electronic flood alarm
that I could place in the underfloor space to alert us (if we happen
to be in).

You could fit a Sure Stop to the incoming main & switch the water off when
away.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Michael Shergold wrote:
Just had the second of these type of hoses (purpose manufactured with
machine crimped ends) burst on me. This one very dramatically as it
snapped clean off at the crimp point (the first just leaked at the crimping
and spread water overnight across the floor). This one was on the output
side of a water softener which has been installed for twelve years now so
perhaps I should not complain; and of course we didn't notice until water
started pouring out of a down stairs light switch. (the softener is
upstairs). Perhaps I should change them every five or six years! Do they
have a shelf life? i.e. is my five year old unused spare worth using now
or should I go and purchase a completely new set. The washing machine and
the dishwasher have the same type of hoses. Would I save more
inconvenience (drying out the underfloor area and redecorating etc.) by
replacing those all as well at the same time.. Whenever I've checked them
at service intervals they show no signs of damage or where but it's hard to
see with these crimped ends and smooth shiny coating. Anyone else had the
same problem and perhaps some ideas.. Is there an electronic flood alarm
that I could place in the underfloor space to alert us (if we happen to be
in). I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they
close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure change might just have
done the trick. If that was the case then it had been shedding water for
about fiteen minutes but long enough to make a considerable mess..

Michael



Get a pressure reduction valve from most decent plumbers merchants, this
will drop your very high mains pressure.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:28:46 +0100, Michael Shergold wrote:

I suspect this one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they
close with a bit of a thunk and that sudden pressure change might just
have done the trick.

Water hammer is very powerful and damaging. What has actually happened
with the failed end, "snapped clean off at the crimp point" doesn't
really
tell us much. What snapped where? The plastic, the crimp, the hose?

A torbeck shouldn't shut with thunk has it got the right flow restrictor
fitted? They come with two restrictors one for Low Pressure and one for
High Pressure, giveing three fitting options no flow restrictor (below 1
bar/14psi (ie gravity fed, no more than about 30' head), the LP one (1 -
4
bar/14 to 60psi, low side of the normal range mains water pressure) or
the
HP one (over 4bar/60psi, high side of normal mains water pressure).


I've not actually had a chance to look at it yet as the softener was put
into bypass and left while we cleared up the mess, lifted the nearby floor
and soaked up the water, with towels, that was lying on the ceiling boards
and among the electrics..etc. .
Busy yesterday evening with visitors to do much so it's all been left until
later today to replace the pipe, flooring etc and restart tthe softnener..
The torbeck restrictors are in place and anyway that was just a guess but
various other devices cause the water thunk anyway. The worst is probably
the dishwasher which was not in use mid afternoon.. The softener itself
causes no thunking as the valves are rotary and slow moving and on the
output side there is anyway some flow restriction due the the resin. The
input hose at full mains pressure would have been
much worse.. I found a site with various solutions
http://www.floodcheck.co.uk/
Has anyone any experience with any of these?
Michael















--
Cheers
Dave.

The Medway Handyman wrote:

You could fit a Sure Stop to the incoming main & switch the water off
when away.

Oddly, ever since fitting my Surestop, I've been troubled with the water
flow spurting briefly at high pressure when turning taps on before settling
down to a steady flow. Anyone else had this?

Tim

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
The Medway Handyman wrote:

You could fit a Sure Stop to the incoming main & switch the water off
when away.

Oddly, ever since fitting my Surestop, I've been troubled with the water
flow spurting briefly at high pressure when turning taps on before
settling down to a steady flow. Anyone else had this?

Tim


There must be a restriction in your pipe work (possibly the sure stop) as
you are getting an initial spurt at normal pressure, then getting a lower
flow rate, which makes it look like a high pressure spurt...

Or maybe you have a section of pipe (Possibly a capped off run?) that is
full of air somewhere acting like a spring!?

You could fit a Sure Stop to the incoming main & switch the water off
when
away.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

'Sure Stop' would be very handy for my wife who can never manage to turn
the stopcock and I've thought about it but it would not have saved us much
in the instances I mentioned as in both cases once we spotted the leaks the
bypass service valves a right in front of you..
The electronic gizmo at http://www.floodcheck.co.uk/ looks a more suitable
if much more expensive option although the product remote control as shown
looks a bit naff..
Incidentally after replacing the hose this morning and inspecting the old
one, it's the nylon pipe beneath the crimp that has broken.. A bit odd
because there is no stress on this and the hose drops vertically before
looping up to the softener connection. The input side has a more difficult
route because it has further to go and enters the softener on the further
side. It's also at more risk of accidental interference but the softener
has been working in this location for nine years now and previously for
three years in our former home.
There seem to be plenty of American armoured and guaranteed hoses on
American websites presumably with chrome or brass fittings.
Perhaps I should go back to making my own connecting hoses!
Michael

"James Salisbury" nntp.dsl.pipex.com wrote in message
...
Michael Shergold wrote:
Just had the second of these type of hoses (purpose manufactured with
machine crimped ends) burst on me. This one very dramatically as it
snapped clean off at the crimp point (the first just leaked at the
crimping and spread water overnight across the floor). This one was on
the output side of a water softener which has been installed for twelve
years now so perhaps I should not complain; and of course we didn't
notice until water started pouring out of a down stairs light switch.
(the softener is upstairs). Perhaps I should change them every five or
six years! Do they have a shelf life? i.e. is my five year old unused
spare worth using now or should I go and purchase a completely new set.
The washing machine and the dishwasher have the same type of hoses.
Would I save more inconvenience (drying out the underfloor area and
redecorating etc.) by replacing those all as well at the same time..
Whenever I've checked them at service intervals they show no signs of
damage or where but it's hard to see with these crimped ends and smooth
shiny coating. Anyone else had the same problem and perhaps some
ideas.. Is there an electronic flood alarm that I could place in the
underfloor space to alert us (if we happen to be in). I suspect this
one blew when a toilet torbeck valve shut as they close with a bit of a
thunk and that sudden pressure change might just have done the trick.
If that was the case then it had been shedding water for about fiteen
minutes but long enough to make a considerable mess..

Michael
Get a pressure reduction valve from most decent plumbers merchants, this
will drop your very high mains pressure.

I don't think I said I had very high pressure. The local water company told
me when I installed this softener 12 years ago that it's between 3.5 and 4
bar. All I said was that one of the Torbecks causes a slight thunk but it
doesn't shake the pipes as others have mentioned on this thread.
Michael