Hello Group
I need to remove a connection to an old non-working external sounder
from my existing control panel (Scantronic 9651) and , to do so, need
to remove mains power. Since I will need to remove a tamper connection
I would also prefer to remove battery power as well. I have the
engineer code available.
The remaining siren is a Texecom Odyssey, configured as SAB, and has
their 'patented hold off mode' I have used this before...basically you
activate the strobe from the control panel 3 times in 30 seconds and
then open the bell box. This is supposed to ensure the siren/strobe do
not operate whilst working on it or the panel. The last time I did
some work on the panel when I reconnected the mains supply the siren
immediately started sounding and continued for its maximum 15 minutes.
The bellbox cover was still not in place.
Does anyone know how to re-apply battery and mains power after I've
removed the connections to the old sounder without causing a full
alarm, please?

TIA
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

"Ian" wrote in message
...

Hello Group
I need to remove a connection to an old non-working external sounder
from my existing control panel (Scantronic 9651) and , to do so, need
to remove mains power. Since I will need to remove a tamper connection
I would also prefer to remove battery power as well. I have the
engineer code available.
The remaining siren is a Texecom Odyssey, configured as SAB, and has
their 'patented hold off mode' I have used this before...basically you
activate the strobe from the control panel 3 times in 30 seconds and
then open the bell box. This is supposed to ensure the siren/strobe do
not operate whilst working on it or the panel. The last time I did
some work on the panel when I reconnected the mains supply the siren
immediately started sounding and continued for its maximum 15 minutes.
The bellbox cover was still not in place.
Does anyone know how to re-apply battery and mains power after I've
removed the connections to the old sounder without causing a full
alarm, please?

TIA
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

I suggest you do the following....

Put the external sounder into it's 'patented hold off mode' then put the
panel into engineering mode

Now go up to the external sounder, open it, and disconnect it's internal
battery

power down the panel, and disconnect the backup battery.

disconnect cables to the external box, in the panel

loop a wire between 0v and TR in the panel, so the panel still thinks the
sounder is connected

close the panel up, and restore the mains power

put the panel into engineering mode

open the panel, and reinstall battery

close panel and take out of engineering mode.

Toby...

"Toby" wrote in message
...
"Ian" wrote in message
...

Hello Group
I need to remove a connection to an old non-working external sounder
from my existing control panel (Scantronic 9651) and , to do so, need
to remove mains power. Since I will need to remove a tamper connection
I would also prefer to remove battery power as well. I have the
engineer code available.
The remaining siren is a Texecom Odyssey, configured as SAB, and has
their 'patented hold off mode' I have used this before...basically you
activate the strobe from the control panel 3 times in 30 seconds and
then open the bell box. This is supposed to ensure the siren/strobe do
not operate whilst working on it or the panel. The last time I did
some work on the panel when I reconnected the mains supply the siren
immediately started sounding and continued for its maximum 15 minutes.
The bellbox cover was still not in place.
Does anyone know how to re-apply battery and mains power after I've
removed the connections to the old sounder without causing a full
alarm, please?

TIA
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

I suggest you do the following....

Put the external sounder into it's 'patented hold off mode' then put the
panel into engineering mode

Now go up to the external sounder, open it, and disconnect it's internal
battery

power down the panel, and disconnect the backup battery.

disconnect cables to the external box, in the panel

loop a wire between 0v and TR in the panel, so the panel still thinks the
sounder is connected

close the panel up, and restore the mains power

put the panel into engineering mode

open the panel, and reinstall battery

close panel and take out of engineering mode.

Toby...

After re-reading, I realise you have two external sounders - are you
replacing the broken one, or are two of them wired up together?

If they are wired together, and you are removing one, then you need to make
sure the anti-tamper circuit is left in tact.

Hi
The Odyssey range can be reset to installer mode .
Disconnect NiCad battery from bell disconnect 12v supply from panel .
Reconnect NiCad,bell should sound for 10secs then go into engineers mode .
You can now reconnect the 12v supply.
To arm the unit simply replace the cover and activate the bell.

You should find the user/eng sheet for the Odyssey here.
www.text.com

HTH
CJ

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:53:05 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

"Toby" wrote in message
. ..


I suggest you do the following....

Put the external sounder into it's 'patented hold off mode' then put the
panel into engineering mode

Now go up to the external sounder, open it, and disconnect it's internal
battery

power down the panel, and disconnect the backup battery.

disconnect cables to the external box, in the panel

loop a wire between 0v and TR in the panel, so the panel still thinks the
sounder is connected

close the panel up, and restore the mains power

put the panel into engineering mode

open the panel, and reinstall battery

close panel and take out of engineering mode.

Toby...

After re-reading, I realise you have two external sounders - are you
replacing the broken one, or are two of them wired up together?

If they are wired together, and you are removing one, then you need to make
sure the anti-tamper circuit is left in tact.

Hi Toby/cj,

Thank you both for advice so far. If I could clarify and pick your
brains further 'twould be appreciated....


Yes, there are two sounders...the Texecom and an old (now non-working)
Master Blaster very loud siren which I am removing and not replacing.
It is conected to a different output but that output is programmed to
follow the Texecom.

I think the key point that I have previously missed is to remove the
internal battery connection in the Texecom temporarily. I think I can
see that a slight modification to the process should indeed
work....i.e

1)Put sounder in hold off mode
2)Open up sounder and disconnect internal battery
3)Power down panel and remove backup battery
4)Remove all connections to Master Blaster
5)Ensure Tamper Circuit connections at the panel are all made

at this point the covers are still off the panel and the Texecom, and
no power is applied anywhere.

Now, according to the Texecom instructions - and I THINK this is what
cj is suggesting- I can use the "Optional Battery First" connection
method. This states that "Hold-Off mode cancels when both the tamper
circuit is closed and power is supplied from the panel. This allows
installation engineers to power the unit from the internal battery and
fit the outer cover knowing that the unit cannot self-activate until
after power has been supplied from the panel"

Now, I'm not quite sure how to interpret this statement but there is a
further note in the booklet which reads:
"If the tamper circuit is closed and the unit is powered by the
battery only, the right LED will flash quickly to signal that the unit
cannot self-activate until power has been supplied from the control
panel"

So, at this point if I
6) connect the battery up in the Texecom and put the cover on
7) connect the battery to the panel
(At this point I guess the panel will be in Installer mode - although
I thought this last time when the Texecom started and could not be
stopped - although I'm now fairly sure that this was self-activated)

8) replace panel cover
9) re-apply mains to the panel
10) Test panel etc
11) Exit panel installer mode

Does this sound likely to work without disturbing everyone. (I live in
a rural area but was very surprised how quickly 2 parties responded on
the last false I created. It would be embarrassing to do it again!)

Again thanks for help so far



Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

"Ian" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:53:05 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

"Toby" wrote in message
.. .


I suggest you do the following....

Put the external sounder into it's 'patented hold off mode' then put the
panel into engineering mode

Now go up to the external sounder, open it, and disconnect it's internal
battery

power down the panel, and disconnect the backup battery.

disconnect cables to the external box, in the panel

loop a wire between 0v and TR in the panel, so the panel still thinks
the
sounder is connected

close the panel up, and restore the mains power

put the panel into engineering mode

open the panel, and reinstall battery

close panel and take out of engineering mode.

Toby...

After re-reading, I realise you have two external sounders - are you
replacing the broken one, or are two of them wired up together?

If they are wired together, and you are removing one, then you need to
make
sure the anti-tamper circuit is left in tact.

Hi Toby/cj,

Thank you both for advice so far. If I could clarify and pick your
brains further 'twould be appreciated....


Yes, there are two sounders...the Texecom and an old (now non-working)
Master Blaster very loud siren which I am removing and not replacing.
It is conected to a different output but that output is programmed to
follow the Texecom.

That's fine then, just make sure this second option is eiter disabled, or a
tampler loop fitted in the panel.


I think the key point that I have previously missed is to remove the
internal battery connection in the Texecom temporarily. I think I can
see that a slight modification to the process should indeed
work....i.e

1)Put sounder in hold off mode
2)Open up sounder and disconnect internal battery
3)Power down panel and remove backup battery
4)Remove all connections to Master Blaster
5)Ensure Tamper Circuit connections at the panel are all made

at this point the covers are still off the panel and the Texecom, and
no power is applied anywhere.

This correct.

Now, according to the Texecom instructions - and I THINK this is what
cj is suggesting- I can use the "Optional Battery First" connection
method. This states that "Hold-Off mode cancels when both the tamper
circuit is closed and power is supplied from the panel. This allows
installation engineers to power the unit from the internal battery and
fit the outer cover knowing that the unit cannot self-activate until
after power has been supplied from the panel"

They tend to sound when you connect the battery, very briefly (2-3 seconds)
so be prepared for that with ear defenders!

Now, I'm not quite sure how to interpret this statement but there is a
further note in the booklet which reads:
"If the tamper circuit is closed and the unit is powered by the
battery only, the right LED will flash quickly to signal that the unit
cannot self-activate until power has been supplied from the control
panel"

So, at this point if I
6) connect the battery up in the Texecom and put the cover on
7) connect the battery to the panel

I wouldn't, as the panel will be open, and then not in installers mode
anymore, because it has been totally powered down, so it may go off. I would
close the panel, and then power it from the mains, then put it into
installers mode, THEN open it again to install the battery.

(At this point I guess the panel will be in Installer mode - although
I thought this last time when the Texecom started and could not be
stopped - although I'm now fairly sure that this was self-activated)

This bit I don't understand, if the panel was in full alarm mode, then
entering your PIN should retify this, and stop all the sounders, if the
external sounder continues to sound, it sounds like there may be a tamper
problem somwhere..

8) replace panel cover
9) re-apply mains to the panel
10) Test panel etc
11) Exit panel installer mode

Does this sound likely to work without disturbing everyone. (I live in
a rural area but was very surprised how quickly 2 parties responded on
the last false I created. It would be embarrassing to do it again!)

Again thanks for help so far


Toby...

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:06:08 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:


Now, according to the Texecom instructions - and I THINK this is what
cj is suggesting- I can use the "Optional Battery First" connection
method. This states that "Hold-Off mode cancels when both the tamper
circuit is closed and power is supplied from the panel. This allows
installation engineers to power the unit from the internal battery and
fit the outer cover knowing that the unit cannot self-activate until
after power has been supplied from the panel"

They tend to sound when you connect the battery, very briefly (2-3 seconds)
so be prepared for that with ear defenders!

OK, thanks for warning

Now, I'm not quite sure how to interpret this statement but there is a
further note in the booklet which reads:
"If the tamper circuit is closed and the unit is powered by the
battery only, the right LED will flash quickly to signal that the unit
cannot self-activate until power has been supplied from the control
panel"

So, at this point if I
6) connect the battery up in the Texecom and put the cover on
7) connect the battery to the panel

I wouldn't, as the panel will be open, and then not in installers mode
anymore, because it has been totally powered down, so it may go off. I would
close the panel, and then power it from the mains, then put it into
installers mode, THEN open it again to install the battery.

OK, I can understand this b...b....b...but, the Scantronic booklet
states "Do not work inside the control unit case when mains power is
present" Also, for the INITIAL start up procedure, the battery is
connected first, then the cover fitted, then mains power.
Unfortunately, the Scantronic instructions are silent on how to power
up the box on subsequent occasions. However, in the past, I have
replaced the battery by:
1) entering Installer mode
2) disconnect mains power
3) Open case
4) replace battery
5) fit case
6) re-apply mains
The sounders start but an entry of the user code at the keypad
silences them. This proves the existence of a working NVM chip.

(At this point I guess the panel will be in Installer mode - although
I thought this last time when the Texecom started and could not be
stopped - although I'm now fairly sure that this was self-activated)

This bit I don't understand, if the panel was in full alarm mode, then
entering your PIN should retify this, and stop all the sounders, if the
external sounder continues to sound, it sounds like there may be a tamper
problem somwhere..
Ermmm. I wish I KNEW what had caused the alarm when powering up the
last time. I KNOW the Texecom cover was off and its internal battery
was still connected. The Texecom had been put in 'hold off' mode.
All power - battery and mains - had been removed from the Scantronic.
I reconnected the battery and Texecom started. Panic set in! Entry of
user code, installer code, default user code and default installer
code had no effect. On reflection, I think the internal sounder was
going but in the panic I cannot be sure. If it was then I suppose the
alarm was initiated by the panel. If it wasn't, then it was Texecom
self activating. I just don't know.
Now, it seems that your suggested procedure would circumvent this by
ensuring there is no tamper alarm is possible since the panel box
would be closed when power first applied. This bit I like. However,
I'm not too keen at going back into the panel to replace the battery
whilst mains is still applied.
Is it normal/safe practice for panel batteries to be replaced with
mains power still on? Perhaps an email to Scantronic?

On balance, embarrassment is not as serious as electrocution!

Thanks again
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian

"Ian" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:06:08 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:


Now, according to the Texecom instructions - and I THINK this is what
cj is suggesting- I can use the "Optional Battery First" connection
method. This states that "Hold-Off mode cancels when both the tamper
circuit is closed and power is supplied from the panel. This allows
installation engineers to power the unit from the internal battery and
fit the outer cover knowing that the unit cannot self-activate until
after power has been supplied from the panel"

They tend to sound when you connect the battery, very briefly (2-3
seconds)
so be prepared for that with ear defenders!

OK, thanks for warning

Now, I'm not quite sure how to interpret this statement but there is a
further note in the booklet which reads:
"If the tamper circuit is closed and the unit is powered by the
battery only, the right LED will flash quickly to signal that the unit
cannot self-activate until power has been supplied from the control
panel"

So, at this point if I
6) connect the battery up in the Texecom and put the cover on
7) connect the battery to the panel

I wouldn't, as the panel will be open, and then not in installers mode
anymore, because it has been totally powered down, so it may go off. I
would
close the panel, and then power it from the mains, then put it into
installers mode, THEN open it again to install the battery.

OK, I can understand this b...b....b...but, the Scantronic booklet
states "Do not work inside the control unit case when mains power is
present" Also, for the INITIAL start up procedure, the battery is
connected first, then the cover fitted, then mains power.
Unfortunately, the Scantronic instructions are silent on how to power
up the box on subsequent occasions. However, in the past, I have
replaced the battery by:
1) entering Installer mode
2) disconnect mains power
3) Open case
4) replace battery
5) fit case
6) re-apply mains
The sounders start but an entry of the user code at the keypad
silences them. This proves the existence of a working NVM chip.

Okay, yes, this will work, but will sound a (probably) full alarm, but that
can be stopped with the user code.


(At this point I guess the panel will be in Installer mode - although
I thought this last time when the Texecom started and could not be
stopped - although I'm now fairly sure that this was self-activated)

This bit I don't understand, if the panel was in full alarm mode, then
entering your PIN should retify this, and stop all the sounders, if the
external sounder continues to sound, it sounds like there may be a tamper
problem somwhere..
Ermmm. I wish I KNEW what had caused the alarm when powering up the
last time. I KNOW the Texecom cover was off and its internal battery
was still connected. The Texecom had been put in 'hold off' mode.
All power - battery and mains - had been removed from the Scantronic.
I reconnected the battery and Texecom started. Panic set in! Entry of
user code, installer code, default user code and default installer
code had no effect. On reflection, I think the internal sounder was
going but in the panic I cannot be sure. If it was then I suppose the
alarm was initiated by the panel. If it wasn't, then it was Texecom
self activating. I just don't know.

Thinking about it, I think the problem was, when you powered the panel up,
the external sounder was open, so in tamper.

Entering the user code should have shut the panel and any internal sounders
up, but it may not have done the same on the external sounder, as it was in
tamper - maybe it doesn't like being powered up from the panel in tamper!

If you need to connect the battery up in the panel first, I suggest you make
sure the external sounder's cover is on first, this may solve the problem of
it going off for 15 minutes!

You can always stop it sounding outside by powering down the panel, and
disconnecting the battery in the sounder, if it doesn't shut up!

Now, it seems that your suggested procedure would circumvent this by
ensuring there is no tamper alarm is possible since the panel box
would be closed when power first applied. This bit I like. However,
I'm not too keen at going back into the panel to replace the battery
whilst mains is still applied.
Is it normal/safe practice for panel batteries to be replaced with
mains power still on? Perhaps an email to Scantronic?

On balance, embarrassment is not as serious as electrocution!

True, but the mains section of the panel is limited to the connection
between the mains cable coming in, and the transformer, so as long as you
don't fiddle with this, you should be OK!

Toby...

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:37:19 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:



True, but the mains section of the panel is limited to the connection
between the mains cable coming in, and the transformer, so as long as you
don't fiddle with this, you should be OK!

Toby...

Toby,
Aye, thought as much. I think I'll go carefully along this route.
Thanks again for the advice
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian