i want to start work on my bathroom this week, so did some
investigating today and found:

1. 15mm cold water pipe from concrete floor, to a splitter, one way to
the WC the other way to the shower via a isolating tap

2. 15mm hot water pipe from floor (drain cock(?) at the bottom),
splits to the sink hot tap and the shower hot feed

3. 15mm cold water pipe from floor straight to sink cold tap

4. 22mm cold water pipe from floor straight to bath cold tap

5. 15mm hot water pipe from floor straight to bath hot tap

the only tap / isolating valve is on the cold shower feed

is it good practice to install isolating valves on all incoming
pipes? would this mean i could then shut the supply off and remove
each thing one at a time?

for your info everything is mains fed via a combi condensing boiler, i
have a stop cock just before the boiler.

really appreciate any help, i am reasonably competent at DIY once i
know the correct way of doing something!

this is at the bottom of both pipes going to the sink:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=dhdg6c&s=4

after noticing in the screwfix catalog i think theyre called drain
cocks... does anyone know what they are there for?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:17:31 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

1. 15mm cold water pipe from concrete floor, to a splitter,

More commonly called a tee.

is it good practice to install isolating valves on all incoming
pipes? would this mean i could then shut the supply off and remove
each thing one at a time?

One near each fitting is very useful and mandatory in many
circumstances. You turn off the mains once and install the valves in
each existing pipes. With luck/skill when you turn the mains back on
there will be no leaks. Having done this you can then work on each
fitting one by one, without the howls of protest that accompany
turning all the water off. Then if anything goes wrong only one
fitting is out of action at any time.

If the toilet is the only one in the house this is the critical
item. However, toilets can be flushed with bowls of water so it need
not be out of action for too long. Remember you can remove the old
cistern and flush the old toilet with a bowl until ready for the big
operation.

As long as one of the bath and basin is in use at any one time
people can wash their hands.

If the shower is over the bath then remove the shower first then
work on the bath, then put the shower back. people can always have a
bath until the shower is restored.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:50:25 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

after noticing in the screwfix catalog i think theyre called drain
cocks...

Correct.

does anyone know what they are there for?

A cock is an old name for a valve. It allows the pipe to be drained.
They should be fitted at the lowest points of all pipework, to make
maintenance easier, but often those who install things couldn't care
less about maintenance.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

thanks for that excellent post David, I feel pretty confident now
about giving it a go. Ready to get stuck in. Just one thing, where a
pipe has a tee going to 2 different places (such as a shower tap and a
sink tap), would you fit the isolation valve before or after the tee?
IE just one valve to isolate both taps or one on each?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

Just one thing, where a
pipe has a tee going to 2 different places (such as a shower tap and a
sink tap), would you fit the isolation valve before or after the tee?
IE just one valve to isolate both taps or one on each?

The answer is, it depends. If there is a possibility of one item
being out of action for a long time then it is better to fit two. An
example would be a pipe going to a toilet and bath. It is as well to
fit two in those circumstances so that the bath can be worked on
long term while the toilet remains in use. The sort of place where I
might only fit one would be to a pipe feeding say two basins side by
side, or a cold pipe feeding a toilet and basin in a cloakroom, but
these cases are rare. If I was working on a bathroom I would
certainly fit an isolator to every pipe, so I could turn off the
minimum number of fittings while working on one.

A 15mm pipe feeding a toilet and shower is not something I would
install. When the toilet is flushed the shower will suffer cold
water starvation. Someone using the shower is then relying on the
thermostatic gubbins inside the shower reacting fast enough to
prevent scalding. Not a risk I would take.

Best to take the cold to the shower from the cold pipe just before
it goes into the water heater, or if this would be difficult then
second best is a pipe direct from the rising main to the shower with
no branches. The first stops toilet flushes causing water
starvation, the second minimises water starvation. Note that if
there is a pressure reducer on the cold pipe into the heater then
there needs to be one on the pipe in the second option, set to the
same pressure, as showers should be fed water at nominally equal
pressures. Note also that if the mains pressure could damage the
shower then a pressure relief valve should be installed on this new
pipe too.

Mains pressure water systems eliminate something which is out of the
way and causes little trouble if installed and maintained properly,
storage tank(s), and replaces them with a variety of bits and pieces
located inside the occupied part of a building, some of which should
be piped to the outside. I have never seen the attraction myself. I
suspect that many people, probably through ignorance, ignore the
bits and pieces (which are there to take the place of the safety
function provided by the vent in a gravity fed system).




--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Thanks for the tips David. A plumber fitted the shower and did all the
fittings, 2 years later I've only just had a look at all the pipes to
notice the shower and WC share the same cold feed!

Its a small bathroom and is highly unlikely there would be 2 people in
there at the same time, especially one having a shower and the other
on the toilet! So I think I'll leave it as it is.

One last question before I get stuck in, the Isolating valves, when I
fit them can I run flexible pipes from these new valves straight to
the taps / wc? Or can I only use whatever length flexible hose that
comes with the new tapes and connect these to a copper pipe? Just
wondering what position to fit the valves, should it be as close as
possible to the taps and wc?

Ah one last question, this is what the pipes to the shower look like:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2v8fvva&s=4

I'm gonna remove all the tiles there do you think i could chisel into
the wall and put these shower tubes into the wall? As it is as the
moment I wouldnt be able to fit my new shower screen to the new bath.
If you can advise on this issue that would be great!

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

One last question before I get stuck in, the Isolating valves, when I
fit them can I run flexible pipes from these new valves straight to
the taps / wc? Or can I only use whatever length flexible hose that
comes with the new tapes and connect these to a copper pipe? Just
wondering what position to fit the valves, should it be as close as
possible to the taps and wc?

You will probably only discover what, if any, flexible connectors
come with the fittings when they arrive. They don't look pretty and
I tend to avoid using them unless it is necessary. Since you
probably don't know the lengths of any flexible pipes I suggest
putting the valves reasonably near the floor, though not tight
against it. You can then cut whatever length of pipe is necessary to
get in the right place for the flexible pipe.

While you are doing the work it is a good time to check the
electrical bonding arrangements in the bathroom.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Anyone know? Should I connect the isolating valves directly to the
tap hoses etc? or put them anywhere then add some more pipe after the
valve?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:38:41 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

I'm gonna remove all the tiles there do you think i could chisel into
the wall and put these shower tubes into the wall? As it is as the
moment I wouldnt be able to fit my new shower screen to the new bath.

Concealed pipes are better in most respects. It would probably be
best to run the pipes to below the top of the bath before they pop
out of the wall.

Copper pipe should be wrapped in tape or insulation before being
buried, to stop cement attacking the copper. If you are using
plastic pipe then this precaution is not necessary.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Thanks David, They are plastic pipes although If I am routing them in
the wall they will need to be longer. I'm sure I can get longer
plastic pipes though?!

I've just noticed in screwfix they do isolating valves with a tap
connector on one end. If I'm thinking correctly then that sounds like
a good idea?

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:53:21 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

Thanks David, They are plastic pipes although If I am routing them in
the wall they will need to be longer. I'm sure I can get longer
plastic pipes though?!

There certainly was a selection of plastic pipes in a large orange
coloured tin shed when I ventured inside one recently.

I've just noticed in screwfix they do isolating valves with a tap
connector on one end. If I'm thinking correctly then that sounds like
a good idea?

It is if you can work out precisely where your new fitting will go.
In your situation I think it would be better to install one with
15mm connections at both ends and make up new lengths of pipe when
the new fittings are in place.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

One last question before I get stuck in, the Isolating valves, when I
fit them can I run flexible pipes from these new valves straight to
the taps / wc? Or can I only use whatever length flexible hose that
comes with the new tapes and connect these to a copper pipe? Just
wondering what position to fit the valves, should it be as close as
possible to the taps and wc?

You will probably only discover what, if any, flexible connectors
come with the fittings when they arrive. They don't look pretty and
I tend to avoid using them unless it is necessary.

Each to his own I suppose - I think flexies are great; they certainly
save a lot of time getting the pipework lined up accurately with the
taps and for someone relatively inexperienced at plumbing they'd be a
massive time saver. Agreed that they aren't particularly pretty,
however I only use short lengths, and they are always hidden away from
view eg under the sink.

I tend not to use flexies with integral valves just because invariably
I'll have fitted the pipework earlier on, including standard valves, and
don't worry about exactly what's going downstream of the valve (ie,
height of pipework etc) until finally fitting the sink/toilet or
whatever. Also, I buy cheapo multipacks of the valves from Screwfix so
their cost is trivial; flexies with integral valves are relatively
expensive. No reason in principle not to use them though.

You won't be able to run a flexy direct from a separate isolation valve
as both are designed to connect to pipework; there'll need to be at
least a short length between them. Doesn't matter a jot where you
position the isolation valve along the pipe - just make sure you'll be
able to get a screwdriver tip to it once the bathroom's finished; and it
probably wants to be out of obvious view.

David

Thanks for the great advice, I'm going to write my list and go get
some parts shortly!!

Hi,

I also am doing up my bathroom and not sure if this helps but i found
a great website. http://www.truerooms.com/ the prices where good and
they offer free delivery to UK.

Hope this helps,

John.



On 17 Aug, 16:17, benpost wrote:
i want to start work on mybathroomthis week, so did some
investigating today and found:

1. 15mm cold water pipe from concrete floor, to a splitter, one way to
the WC the other way to the shower via a isolatingtap

2. 15mm hot water pipe from floor (drain cock(?) at the bottom),
splits to the sink hottapand the shower hot feed

3. 15mm cold water pipe from floor straight to sink coldtap

4. 22mm cold water pipe from floor straight to bath coldtap

5. 15mm hot water pipe from floor straight to bath hottap

the onlytap/ isolating valve is on the cold shower feed

is it good practice to install isolating valves on all incoming
pipes? *would this mean i could then shut the supply off and remove
each thing one at a time?

for your info everything is mains fed via a combi condensing boiler, i
have a stop cock just before the boiler.

really appreciate any help, i am reasonably competent at DIY once i
know the correct way of doing something!

Huge wrote:

On 2008-08-22, John wrote:
Hi,

I also am doing up my bathroom and not sure if this helps but i found
a great website. http://www.truerooms.com/ the prices where good and
they offer free delivery to UK.

Given that this is the third or fourth time you have posted this, I can only
assume you are a spammer.

Given that the only connection between the original post and the
spamervertising is a few trigger words, I can only assume that "John" is
a spambot.

In article ,
(Steve Firth) writes:
Huge wrote:

On 2008-08-22, John wrote:
Hi,

I also am doing up my bathroom and not sure if this helps but i found
a great website. http://www.truerooms.com/ the prices where good and
they offer free delivery to UK.

Given that this is the third or fourth time you have posted this, I can only
assume you are a spammer.

Given that the only connection between the original post and the
spamervertising is a few trigger words, I can only assume that "John" is
a spambot.

I was guessing he's an employee of truerooms/taps4less/DIY Trader Ltd
who doesn't realise he's trashing his business by showing how dishonest
the staff are. Alternatively, he's a very disgruntled customer who's
deliberately trashing the business, presumably due to a bad experience
with them. Doesn't matter much which, the effect is the same - a
company which is now blacklisted by many who might otherwise have used
it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

i've removed the sink and cistern and fitted the iso valves. didnt
realise i would need 2 spanners so have currently just tightened as
much as poss with the one spanner. turned mains back on and no leaks,
one valve was sort of making a spitting noise but no water was
escaping, but that stopped a few mins after.

benpost wrote:
i've removed the sink and cistern and fitted the iso valves. didnt
realise i would need 2 spanners so have currently just tightened as
much as poss with the one spanner. turned mains back on and no leaks,
one valve was sort of making a spitting noise but no water was
escaping, but that stopped a few mins after.

I prefer mole grips to the second spanner but then I'm all fingers and
thumbs with plumbing.

being lazy, what size spanner fits a 15mm pipe valve nut?

btw this is the bathroom atm:



http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=w6wn5z&s=4

benpost wrote:
being lazy, what size spanner fits a 15mm pipe valve nut?

An adjustable one! (seriously)

David

thats what i've already got, so i'll just get another adjustable
then! it has come in useful i have to say

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:26:32 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost
wrote this:-

i've removed the sink and cistern and fitted the iso valves. didnt
realise i would need 2 spanners so have currently just tightened as
much as poss with the one spanner. turned mains back on and no leaks,
one valve was sort of making a spitting noise but no water was
escaping, but that stopped a few mins after.

You are very lucky. Please tell us your lottery numbers:-)

Adjustable spanners are the thing for small amounts of plumbing.
Check that the one you buy will open far enough to get round all the
nuts you may encounter.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

lol dont do the lottery! just been looking into removing the rad which
seems pretty straightforward and i'm going to need water pump pliers
to hold the valve whilst unscrewing the nut. this seems exactly the
same as what i was doing with the isolation valves. it says so not to
do any damage to the pipes. so am i better off with a set of w p
pliers instead of another adjustable spanner?