We're repairing sash windows throughout our Victorian terrace and need
to
replace cills on at least three windows, at present have two windows
removed and hopefully will start on third at weekend.

I'll also need to replace some of the inner and outer box linings but
this doesn' strike me as the tricky part.

Having never had to replace cills before turning process over in my
mind
and a couple of things crop up:

[1] A band saw might make light work of making joints in new cills.
Saw
would need to be portable, so table-top type, as no workshop here and
equipment stored in the basement. Was thinking of Axminster AWSBS2:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-AWSBS2-
Bandsaw-462917.htm

Comments appreciated.

[2] As to machining joints in new cills, it occurs that it might be
easier to rout housing joint in cill for stiles before profiling the
cill. If this is true then rather than getting local timber yard to
supply cill ready profiled I'd need to do profiling myself last. So
how to
go about this? Would I manage with circular saw or is more machinery
needed here?

Again all comments much appreciated.

TIA

Martin

In article
,
Martin Hind wrote:
[2] As to machining joints in new cills, it occurs that it might be
easier to rout housing joint in cill for stiles before profiling the
cill. If this is true then rather than getting local timber yard to
supply cill ready profiled I'd need to do profiling myself last. So
how to
go about this? Would I manage with circular saw or is more machinery
needed here?

My local timber yard stocked sills damn near exactly right as a
replacement - in both hardwood and whitewood.

I just cut the rebates for the stiles using my sliding compound mitre saw
after setting the depth stop to suit - then cleaned up with a chisel. But
you could as easily do it with a hand saw - I don't think a router is
necessary.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Aug 4, 11:46 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
Martin Hind wrote:

[2] As to machining joints in new cills, it occurs that it might be
easier to rout housing joint in cill for stiles before profiling the
cill. If this is true then rather than getting local timber yard to
supply cill ready profiled I'd need to do profiling myself last. So
how to
go about this? Would I manage with circular saw or is more machinery
needed here?

My local timber yard stocked sills damn near exactly right as a
replacement - in both hardwood and whitewood.

I'll check this out with AA Timber over here in E7. They certainly
had
some cills in the yard last time I looked otherwise are quite happy to
machine
to size.


I just cut the rebates for the stiles using my sliding compound mitre saw
after setting the depth stop to suit - then cleaned up with a chisel. But
you could as easily do it with a hand saw - I don't think a router is
necessary.

Thanks for the encouraging tip. It's mostly hand tools here, but can
lay my
hands on a mitre saw. Might save on the elbow grease.

Regards

Martin

In article
,
Martin Hind wrote:
I just cut the rebates for the stiles using my sliding compound mitre
saw after setting the depth stop to suit - then cleaned up with a
chisel. But you could as easily do it with a hand saw - I don't think
a router is necessary.

Thanks for the encouraging tip. It's mostly hand tools here, but can
lay my
hands on a mitre saw. Might save on the elbow grease.

The one I'm referring to is a power circular saw of which there is a fair
choice at reasonable prices - but it's a large thing to store if you don't
need it for other things. I only used it because I already had it - a good
tenon saw would have done as well with some care.

--
*A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Martin Hind wrote:
We're repairing sash windows throughout our Victorian terrace and need
to
replace cills on at least three windows, at present have two windows
removed and hopefully will start on third at weekend.

I find it useful to be able to cover up quickly when the rain starts. If
you reverse the sashes and just pin them in place you can work on the
outside bits from the inside, and at a comfortable height.

I'll also need to replace some of the inner and outer box linings but
this doesn' strike me as the tricky part.

Tricky in the sense that you shouldn't reduce the interior dimensions of
the channel. I've seen "refurbishments" where the weights can't pass
each other easily and are forever jamming.

Having never had to replace cills before turning process over in my
mind
and a couple of things crop up:

[1] A band saw might make light work of making joints in new cills.
Saw
would need to be portable, so table-top type, as no workshop here and
equipment stored in the basement. Was thinking of Axminster AWSBS2:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-AWSBS2-
Bandsaw-462917.htm

Comments appreciated.

In a refurbishment all the sill has to do is sit there. It doesn't
really need to be jointed because the box doesn't have to be a free
standing item

[2] As to machining joints in new cills, it occurs that it might be
easier to rout housing joint in cill for stiles before profiling the
cill. If this is true then rather than getting local timber yard to
supply cill ready profiled I'd need to do profiling myself last. So
how to
go about this? Would I manage with circular saw or is more machinery
needed here?

Again all comments much appreciated.

TIA

Martin

On 4 Aug, 22:34, Martin Hind wrote:
We're repairing sash windows throughout our Victorian terrace and need
to
replace cills on at least three windows, at present have two windows
removed and hopefully will start on third at weekend.

I'll also need to replace some of the inner and outer box linings but
this doesn' strike me as the tricky part.

Having never had to replace cills before turning process over in my
mind
and a couple of things crop up:

[1] A band saw might make light work of making joints in new cills.
Saw
would need to be portable, so table-top type, as no workshop here and
equipment stored in the basement. *Was thinking of Axminster AWSBS2:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-AWSBS2-
Bandsaw-462917.htm

Comments appreciated.

[2] As to machining joints in new cills, it occurs that it might be
easier to rout housing joint in cill for stiles before profiling the
cill. *If this is true then rather than getting local timber yard to
supply cill ready profiled I'd need to do profiling myself last. *So
how to
go about this? Would I manage with circular saw or is more machinery
needed here?

Again all comments much appreciated.

TIA

Martin

Dear Martin
Some tips:
I have replaced literally hundreds of these - that's my business.

It is much easier if, as you have done, you remove the frame but there
is no need unless you are for other reasons
If you are doing it "in situ" - you need to cut each part of the style
at an acute angle to effect a scarfe joint.on replacement and to allow
the sill to be cut out and removed
The sill is best in double vac treated Scots pine with the treatment
done after fabrication
That is better than most hardwoods (Balsa is a hardwood!)
(See the earlier link on durabitly of timber)

Get the profile made up by a joiner to be exactly the same as the
original sill and cut it to shape to fit the syles etc and then have
it treated
prime all the end grain before fitting
put on a dpc and run the dpc up the sides some 6"
If you cant get it double vac treated dip all cut ends overnight in
and OS borne fungicide before priming and fitting
Use the Dulux Weathersheild green pimer or any heavy metal primer
(its an old Victorian trick to block end grain0

There is no need for any band saw
Any coumpound chop saw or even hand saws are fine

Make sure that if the original has not got a decent slope on it that
you adapt the new one such that it has a minimum of 10 degrees
Make sure each arris is well rounded and the front one has a radius of
at least 10 mm
Sharp edges cause paint failure
All box frame edges should be rounded to a radius of 1 or 2 mm and not
left sharp

Use a polysulphide mastic to make the joins with masonry (See DAS 68
from the BRE)
isoalate styles with thin (63 micron) poly by wrapping it round the
sides and top and stapling in place
Point in and backing plaster first
then cut off poly
then do the final coats of plaster or architrave to cover join
prime any bare wood early on
under coat before you put in the sashes
put in draft stripping (Reddiseals) parting and staff beads

paint sashes out of the box when flat so paint does not run

put in sashes with staples not nails in sash cords

check weights by using a balance to ensure compatability with sashes
Check and repair putty if duff

Use Window Care resin to fix back box frames if scafed in situ

Hope this helps

chris g

On Aug 5, 11:09 am, stuart noble wrote:
Martin Hind wrote:
We're repairing sash windows throughout our Victorian terrace and need
to
replace cills on at least three windows, at present have two windows
removed and hopefully will start on third at weekend.

I find it useful to be able to cover up quickly when the rain starts. If
you reverse the sashes and just pin them in place you can work on the
outside bits from the inside, and at a comfortable height.

Had the same thought as I stood in daughter's bedroom with box frame
on
the floor (in several pieces) and big hole in wall. Improvised a
temporary
window with 4x2 hastily fetched from timber yard, OSB and a handy
spare sash
from the basement.

In a refurbishment all the sill has to do is sit there. It doesn't
really need to be jointed because the box doesn't have to be a free
standing item

As the box is out of the wall I'd like to re-make the joints properly.

Thanks for your comments

Martin

On Aug 5, 9:53 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article
,
Martin Hind wrote:

I just cut the rebates for the stiles using my sliding compound mitre
saw after setting the depth stop to suit - then cleaned up with a
chisel. But you could as easily do it with a hand saw - I don't think
a router is necessary.
Thanks for the encouraging tip. It's mostly hand tools here, but can
lay my
hands on a mitre saw. Might save on the elbow grease.

The one I'm referring to is a power circular saw of which there is a fair
choice at reasonable prices - but it's a large thing to store if you don't
need it for other things. I only used it because I already had it - a good
tenon saw would have done as well with some care.

My mistake for abbreviating above. A friend recent bought a sliding
compound mitre saw which I can use if necessary.

On the previous rare occasions I've needed to produce proper joints I
did
so with hand tools. I always get half way through and start wishing I
had some
machinery to ease the effort and achieve better precision. Hence my
musings about a bandsaw. Perhaps I could improvise with the borrowed
sliding
saw and avoid splashing out for a bit of kit that won't see the light
of day
again once this project is done.

On Aug 5, 8:13 pm, wrote:
On 4 Aug, 22:34, Martin Hind wrote:

We're repairing sash windows throughout our Victorian terrace and need
to


Dear Martin
Some tips:
I have replaced literally hundreds of these - that's my business.

snipped

Hope this helps

chris g

Thanks for the comments, they're really helpful. Give me a few weeks
and
I might post some pictures of the results.

Martin

In article
,
wrote:
I have replaced literally hundreds of these - that's my business.

[snip]

Thanks for an interesting and useful post, Chris.

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.