|
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert
level IIA stab proof vest. Adam |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth"
said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? To answer your question, though, I was looking at several security equipment suppliers for something else recently. I've checked a few web sites from my list and all of them seem to be chargng £300 to 330 for what you want. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
ARWadworth wrote:
Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. The ones issued to London Ambulance staff are tailor made & cost around £350 each. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? I reckon his girlfriend has found out about the bit on the side :-) -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:07:10 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote: ARWadworth wrote: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. The ones issued to London Ambulance staff are tailor made & cost around £350 each. I doubt they are tailor made as opposed to just being made in a number of sizes. One thing that always amazes me is that they seem to offer no protection to the lower abdomen and that an upward strike would likely slide in underneath the vest. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 2008-07-17 18:07:58 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? I reckon his girlfriend has found out about the bit on the side :-) I wonder if these vests or an accessory have naughty bits coverage. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Geoff wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:07:10 GMT, "The Medway Handyman" wrote: ARWadworth wrote: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. The ones issued to London Ambulance staff are tailor made & cost around £350 each. I doubt they are tailor made as opposed to just being made in a number of sizes. One thing that always amazes me is that they seem to offer no protection to the lower abdomen and that an upward strike would likely slide in underneath the vest. My daughter was measured for hers and had to wait a fortnight for it to be made. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? I reckon his girlfriend has found out about the bit on the side :-) Armour plated box is what he needs -- geoff |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
geoff wrote:
In message , The Medway Handyman writes Andy Hall wrote: On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? I reckon his girlfriend has found out about the bit on the side :-) Armour plated box is what he needs If she gets to him first he's gonna need a silk lined box... -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:487f7800@qaanaaq... On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? No. Just expecting it. He (the next door neighbour) has threatened me with a knife before, his Dad died in a mental instituition (a little research found that out) and today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Personally I do expect him to try to stab me at some point. Certain officials are taking action against him and his wife for other behavioural problems and so I expect things can only get worse. I cannot YouTube him yet because of these actions against them. To answer your question, though, I was looking at several security equipment suppliers for something else recently. I've checked a few web sites from my list and all of them seem to be chargng £300 to 330 for what you want. A small price to pay. Adam |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"ARWadworth" wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Doesn't answer your questiion but a few years ago you could buy chain mail clothes from www.kinel.co.uk. The company appears to have disappeared, but not before their web site was archived by the "wayback machine". I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Vortex3 wrote:
"ARWadworth" wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Doesn't answer your questiion but a few years ago you could buy chain mail clothes from www.kinel.co.uk. The company appears to have disappeared, but not before their web site was archived by the "wayback machine". I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. Chain mail is fairly good at resisting slashing attacks, but relatively poor at resisting stabbing. "The point always beats the edge" as they say. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
He (the next door neighbour) has threatened me with a knife before, his Dad
died in a mental instituition (a little research found that out) and today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Wonder if you can get him sectioned under the mental health act ? - certainly sounds like he needs assessment... |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
ARWadworth wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= or http://tinyurl.com/6b9uxq - |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
how about £25, but not quite covert
http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? For £50, it looks like you can get ex-police body armour, not sure what the stab level is though... http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co...hopscr118.html |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
In message , ARWadworth
writes "Andy Hall" wrote in message news:487f7800@qaanaaq... On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? No. Just expecting it. He (the next door neighbour) has threatened me with a knife before, his Dad died in a mental instituition (a little research found that out) and today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Personally I do expect him to try to stab me at some point. Certain officials are taking action against him and his wife for other behavioural problems and so I expect things can only get worse. I cannot YouTube him yet because of these actions against them. To answer your question, though, I was looking at several security equipment suppliers for something else recently. I've checked a few web sites from my list and all of them seem to be chargng £300 to 330 for what you want. A small price to pay. Adam Replied via email. Is your address valid? Someone |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:17:19 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
ARWadworth wrote in message . com... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_rang e= or http://tinyurl.com/6b9uxq When I retired about 3½ years ago I gave away a stab-proof vest (unused but tried-on once or twice). Hardly covert, it had a white washable liner. I think it had titanium plates as its active elements. It was bloody heavy to wear though. I think my successors were issued with slightly more ballistic-resistant PPE... -- Frank Erskine |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:17:19 GMT, Mark wrote:
ARWadworth wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= or http://tinyurl.com/6b9uxq - I must get my eyes tested....I read that as quilt cover. Don. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Colin Wilson wrote:
how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared:
Colin Wilson wrote: how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. It's a sad state of affairs when members of the fire brigade and ambulance services need to worry about people trying to main them :( |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 17 Jul, 17:38, "ARWadworth" wrote:
Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Eat some pies, wear a non-covert one under a big shirt. You pay a _lot_ for the extra-thin covert ones. Also they're no bloody use. If you're in a situation where such a thing is likely to be worn (doorstaff maybe), then your general demeanour intimidates many, drunken students are a nuisance and little more, so your largest actual threat is from the serious nutter. They aren't going to stab you in the vest, they'll aim somewhere more effective, just in case you are wearing one. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 17 Jul, 18:49, Andy Hall wrote:
I wonder if these vests or an accessory have naughty bits coverage. My Felix suit has separate pieces for anti-vampire protection, and a bollock guard (which is really there to protect your femoral artery anyway). |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 17 Jul, 18:44, Geoff wrote:
I doubt they are tailor made as opposed to just being made in a number of sizes. Many are tailor made, to some extent. There are a number of plates, so as to give some articulation, and you can order each plate to be of a range of standard sizes (i.e. are you apple-shaped or pear-shaped). Covers are then sewn up to fit the particular set of plates that you've ordered. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On Jul 17, 9:27*pm, "ARWadworth"
wrote: today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Personally I do expect him to try to stab me at some point. Certain officials are taking action against him and his wife for other behavioural problems Got this info from a member of the local Community Mental Health Trust: If you haven't already, you should definitely and immediately contact the Police about the latest incident. They should contact the relevant organization and also tell you of anyone else you can contact. If you already have a contact name at Social Services/Community Mental Health Trust, you should also contact them. If not, get this info from the Police or Google for it. Threats like this are taken seriously, there are procedures to deal with them and you shouldn't have to rely on buying yourself a stab- proof jacket. It's good to leave a paper trail and also the more information/incidents that are reported, the more likely there's a critical mass of evidence to warrant intervention. HTH. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"Colin Wilson" o.uk wrote in message g... how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? TBA I didn’t read it properly either, I looked at this one http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/shopscr454.html but then noticed the ex-army one cheaper. For £50, it looks like you can get ex-police body armour, not sure what the stab level is though... http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co...hopscr118.html That’s looks the same as my one above, but half the price. - |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Andy Dingley wrote:
On 17 Jul, 17:38, "ARWadworth" wrote: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Eat some pies, wear a non-covert one under a big shirt. You pay a _lot_ for the extra-thin covert ones. Also they're no bloody use. If you're in a situation where such a thing is likely to be worn (doorstaff maybe), then your general demeanour intimidates many, drunken students are a nuisance and little more, so your largest actual threat is from the serious nutter. They aren't going to stab you in the vest, they'll aim somewhere more effective, just in case you are wearing one. The point is, apart from a blade into the brain through the eyes, the death dealing blows are to the torso. Specifically tthe heart: even a ripped artery is not fatal if tthe flow is staunched in time. I am wndering if a titanium mail shirt (marketed as 'Mithril') has any commercial value :-) |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 2008-07-18 10:47:44 +0100, Andy Dingley said:
On 17 Jul, 18:49, Andy Hall wrote: I wonder if these vests or an accessory have naughty bits coverage. My Felix suit has separate pieces for anti-vampire protection, and a bollock guard (which is really there to protect your femoral artery anyway). This in a way is what surprises me about this kind or armour - which essentially covers the abdomen. If one really wanted to off somebody quickly, the femoral artery area would be the place to aim for. I believe that death can be in a very few minutes from a fully severed artery. I was surprised at how quickly the circulation works. I'd always thought that it was minutes, but found out during a recent CT scan that it's seconds. I suppose that most teenage thugs will tend to stab in the chest and abdomen rather than thinking about what to do. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"somebody" wrote in message ... In message , ARWadworth writes "Andy Hall" wrote in message news:487f7800@qaanaaq... On 2008-07-17 17:38:09 +0100, "ARWadworth" said: Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Trouble with the neighbours again Adam? No. Just expecting it. He (the next door neighbour) has threatened me with a knife before, his Dad died in a mental instituition (a little research found that out) and today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Personally I do expect him to try to stab me at some point. Certain officials are taking action against him and his wife for other behavioural problems and so I expect things can only get worse. I cannot YouTube him yet because of these actions against them. To answer your question, though, I was looking at several security equipment suppliers for something else recently. I've checked a few web sites from my list and all of them seem to be chargng £300 to 330 for what you want. A small price to pay. Adam Replied via email. Is your address valid? Someone Cheers. I have received it. Adam |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ... The point is, apart from a blade into the brain through the eyes, the death dealing blows are to the torso. Specifically tthe heart: even a ripped artery is not fatal if tthe flow is staunched in time. I could kill you with a 1" knife without touching the organs or an artery and it would be instant. I have not seen a vest designed to stop it either. I will not disclose it here. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"Vortex3" wrote in message ... "ARWadworth" wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Doesn't answer your questiion but a few years ago you could buy chain mail clothes from www.kinel.co.uk. The company appears to have disappeared, but not before their web site was archived by the "wayback machine". I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. Your tiny url shows a picture of a woman with no bra wearing a see through dress. Adam |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
ARWadworth wrote in
"Vortex3" wrote in message ... snip I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. Your tiny url shows a picture of a woman with no bra wearing a see through dress. Just the kind of thing I imagine you'd have a stab at ;) -- PeterMcC If you feel that any of the above is incorrect, inappropriate or offensive in any way, please ignore it and accept my apologies. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"ARWadworth" wrote in message om... "Vortex3" wrote in message ... "ARWadworth" wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Doesn't answer your questiion but a few years ago you could buy chain mail clothes from www.kinel.co.uk. The company appears to have disappeared, but not before their web site was archived by the "wayback machine". I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. Your tiny url shows a picture of a woman with no bra wearing a see through dress. Adam .....made of chain mail. |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Andy Hall wrote:
This in a way is what surprises me about this kind or armour - which essentially covers the abdomen. If one really wanted to off somebody quickly, the femoral artery area would be the place to aim for. I believe that death can be in a very few minutes from a fully severed artery. I was surprised at how quickly the circulation works. I'd always thought that it was minutes, but found out during a recent CT scan that it's seconds. I remember the more bloodthirsty elements of my class at school were asked where they wanted to go for a geography field trip. The consensus was an abattoir. So it was duly arranged. The one image that struck me particularly was how quickly the blood came out of a pig once its throat was cut. It would have been no quicker if you simply inverted a bucket of it! It took just a couple of seconds to basically drain porky of 90% of his content when you lop through the jugular and carotid. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
"Vortex3" wrote in message ... "ARWadworth" wrote in message om... "Vortex3" wrote in message ... "ARWadworth" wrote in message om... Not quite DIY but does anyone know of a better price than £300 for a covert level IIA stab proof vest. Adam Doesn't answer your questiion but a few years ago you could buy chain mail clothes from www.kinel.co.uk. The company appears to have disappeared, but not before their web site was archived by the "wayback machine". I have no idea whether they were stab proof, but the site was interesting anyhow ;-) : http://tinyurl.com/6buws7 (very slow) Make your own judgement. Your tiny url shows a picture of a woman with no bra wearing a see through dress. Adam ....made of chain mail. Is she wearing a chastity belt? Adam |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Tim S wrote:
The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared: Colin Wilson wrote: how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. It's a sad state of affairs when members of the fire brigade and ambulance services need to worry about people trying to main them :( Indeed. They can wear the vest whenever they want to, but some calls are flagged 'vest mandatory' and some are flagged 'do not leave ambulance unless police are on scene'. Vest is mandatory in certain post code areas. Conflict management and Aikido are part of the basic training. They have radio code words to secretly convey that they are in a possibly dangerous situation. All for a basic salary of £14K. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 2008-07-18 20:30:10 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said: Tim S wrote: The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared: Colin Wilson wrote: how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. It's a sad state of affairs when members of the fire brigade and ambulance services need to worry about people trying to main them :( Indeed. They can wear the vest whenever they want to, but some calls are flagged 'vest mandatory' and some are flagged 'do not leave ambulance unless police are on scene'. Vest is mandatory in certain post code areas. SW1? Conflict management and Aikido are part of the basic training. They have radio code words to secretly convey that they are in a possibly dangerous situation. All for a basic salary of £14K. ..... and all up? |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
In article , The Medway
Handyman scribeth thus Tim S wrote: The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared: Colin Wilson wrote: how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. It's a sad state of affairs when members of the fire brigade and ambulance services need to worry about people trying to main them :( Indeed. They can wear the vest whenever they want to, but some calls are flagged 'vest mandatory' and some are flagged 'do not leave ambulance unless police are on scene'. Vest is mandatory in certain post code areas. Conflict management and Aikido are part of the basic training. They have radio code words to secretly convey that they are in a possibly dangerous situation. All for a basic salary of £14K. And from what I hear no shortage of applicants;!.. -- Tony Sayer |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
On 18 Jul, 12:13, mike wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:27 pm, "ARWadworth" wrote: today he spent 20 minutes walking around his back garden while talking to himself and saying he will kill That Dick (his nickname for me) and That Fat ******* (his nickname for his other next door neighbour). Personally I do expect him to try to stab me at some point. Certain officials are taking action against him and his wife for other behavioural problems Got this info from a member of the local Community Mental Health Trust: If you haven't already, you should definitely and immediately contact the Police about the latest incident. They should contact the relevant organization and also tell you of anyone else you can contact. If you already have a contact name at Social Services/Community Mental Health Trust, you should also contact them. If not, get this info from the Police or Google for it. Threats like this are taken seriously, there are procedures to deal with them and you shouldn't have to rely on buying yourself a stab- proof jacket. It's good to leave a paper trail and also the more information/incidents that are reported, the more likely there's a critical mass of evidence to warrant intervention. HTH. If you have no joy from the police, get your local BBC news on the case if he's wandering round with a knife. If you believe he's tooled- up, dial 999 and say you believe you saw a gun. Then if he's such a nut he won't drop the knife and the cops will trade shots http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/4371071.stm Problem sorted! |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "dennis@home" saying something like: I could kill you with a 1" knife without touching the organs or an artery and it would be instant. But that would be illegal. You bad man. -- Dave GS850x2 XS650 SE6a "It's a moron working with power tools. How much more suspenseful can you get?" - House |
OT Body armour - stab proof vest
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-07-18 20:30:10 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" said: Tim S wrote: The Medway Handyman coughed up some electrons that declared: Colin Wilson wrote: how about £25, but not quite covert http://www.the-outdoor.co.uk/include...53&start=0&sea rch_string=body+armour&search=Search&price_range= Going by the description there, it says something about "no filler" - could this be the armour that's missing ? That looks like just the cover. Becky's stab vest came with a spare cover in case ooh nasty stuff gets splattered on it. It's a sad state of affairs when members of the fire brigade and ambulance services need to worry about people trying to main them :( Indeed. They can wear the vest whenever they want to, but some calls are flagged 'vest mandatory' and some are flagged 'do not leave ambulance unless police are on scene'. Vest is mandatory in certain post code areas. SW1? More like SE1 Conflict management and Aikido are part of the basic training. They have radio code words to secretly convey that they are in a possibly dangerous situation. All for a basic salary of £14K. .... and all up? With all the shift work & unsocial hours pay & overtime she about doubles that. -- Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk |
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