"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:53:55 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

3% of total capacity will very rarely be the same as 3% of capacity in
use.

Quite, if 1.196GW is 3% that makes 100% 39.86GW. Current demand is
42.2GW... Peak winter demands aren't far short of 60GW. Of course
overnight the demand is down to 27GW (midweek)...

The National Grid real time data seems to be a bit broke ATM the RH text
has been saying "Demand: 42647MW Frequency: 49.93Hz 15:09:30 GMT" since
after 1509 yesterday... The last 60 mins plot shows about 42.6GW at the RH
end but the next update it drops back to 42.2GW and stays there. So I'm
not sure I trust it.

Nuclear power stations are usually the last to be taken off line as
demand drops. They produce the cheapest electricity and the boiler can't
be turned off,

I'd be surprised if it was harder to run down a nuke station than a big
coal fired one... but it's really the wholesale price that determines if a
generator company decides to run or not, taking into account the period
that it takes for the plant to run up/down etc.

That depends on the station..
Sizewell B is water cooled reactor and has response time measured in minutes
or even seconds.
An AGR has response times of hours/days.

If you lost cooling on sizewell B and couldn't drop the control rods it
would melt down in a few minutes.
With an AGR it would take a couple of days.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus


"itsdoingfunnythings" wrote in message
...
On May 27, 11:22 pm, "zaax" wrote:
RW wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ill.net...
At 1138 (+/- 5 min) the voltage here (East Cumbria fed from Penrith)
suddenly dropped to 200v and shortly after that it was coming and
going quite frequently. Off for several seconds back for a few tens
off again etc.

Reported to United Utils who where experiencing a lot of calls...
They called back a little while ago to check the power was back and
stable. When asked what the problem was they said it was not with
them but with National Grid. Any one know what happened? The
National Grid website has an "incidents" page for gas but not
electricity.

Someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter again !

Sizewell B has blown up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7422817.stm).

Every one is to take pill B unless your in area A2C in which case you
are to take pill C with 1/2 of pill A. This is plan B

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

3% loss and the system go's into jelly mode ?

They should have just turned on more windmills.


Noooo!, You'll get the Natural Philosopher started and he won't stop
till the wind drops...
--
Tony Sayer

On 28 May 2008 10:47:23 GMT, Huge wrote:

AFAIK there are no power stations within the M25...

Taylor's Lane, London

I sit correct but 132MW isn't very big, I wonder how much juice The City
draws.

--
Cheers
Dave.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Rod saying
something like:

Mike Dodd wrote:
Rod wrote:

Aren't power stations just a bit too big to just lose? Have they sent
anyone to find them?


Stranger things have been lost befo-

http://www.worldgolf.com/travel/afri...iland-golf.htm

Wonderful. Don't suppose it was called USS Engstrom or USS Eldridge?

HMS Troutbridge, more like.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"It's a moron working with power tools.
How much more suspenseful can you get?"
- House

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Rod saying
something like:

Mike Dodd wrote:
Rod wrote:

Aren't power stations just a bit too big to just lose? Have they sent
anyone to find them?

Stranger things have been lost befo-

http://www.worldgolf.com/travel/afri...iland-golf.htm
Wonderful. Don't suppose it was called USS Engstrom or USS Eldridge?

HMS Troutbridge, more like.

But that didn't disappear - it just faded away... eventually.... :-)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Rod wrote:

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

HMS Troutbridge, more like.

But that didn't disappear - it just faded away... eventually.... :-)

Starboard lookout chattin'

"Left hand down ever so very slightly"

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

tony sayer wrote:
In article , dennis@home
scribeth thus

"itsdoingfunnythings" wrote in message
...
On May 27, 11:22 pm, "zaax" wrote:
RW wrote:

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
At 1138 (+/- 5 min) the voltage here (East Cumbria fed from Penrith)
suddenly dropped to 200v and shortly after that it was coming and
going quite frequently. Off for several seconds back for a few tens
off again etc.
Reported to United Utils who where experiencing a lot of calls...
They called back a little while ago to check the power was back and
stable. When asked what the problem was they said it was not with
them but with National Grid. Any one know what happened? The
National Grid website has an "incidents" page for gas but not
electricity.
Someone forgot to put a shilling in the meter again !
Sizewell B has blown up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7422817.stm).

Every one is to take pill B unless your in area A2C in which case you
are to take pill C with 1/2 of pill A. This is plan B

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
3% loss and the system go's into jelly mode ?
They should have just turned on more windmills.


Noooo!, You'll get the Natural Philosopher started and he won't stop
till the wind drops...
Sshh..

On Tue, 27 May 2008 22:22:56 +0000, zaax wrote:

Sizewell B has blown up (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7422817.stm).

Every one is to take pill B unless your in area A2C in which case you
are to take pill C with 1/2 of pill A. This is plan B

I'm sure there was a table in there somewhere... don't think you had to
eat it, though.

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes


geoff wrote:
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes


Tim S wrote:
coughed up some electrons that declared:

Powercut in the NW, Cheshire.
11:38am from alarm logs (+/- 1 min).
11:53am back on sometime before.

Seems very widespread.

No outage in teh Tunbridge Wells area...

Nothing in Medway.

You mean it's all been nicked?

nothing new there, then

Thats rich coming from someone who lives in Watford - chav central. :-)

Chav central?

No, that's across the bridge from you - essex


--
geoff

On Tue, 27 May 2008 23:20:59 +0100, Mogga
wrote:


did we nearly get a brown out today ?

That would be the best plan...

--
Frank Erskine

Mike Dodd wrote:

Stranger things have been lost befo-

http://www.worldgolf.com/travel/afri...iland-golf.htm

I like the story, but unfortunately that is all it is...

http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/africa.asp


Andy.

On 2008-05-28 21:21:49 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Tue, 27 May 2008 23:20:59 +0100, Mogga
wrote:


did we nearly get a brown out today ?

That would be the best plan...

Nice. I love it.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Wed, 28 May 2008 09:54:20 +0100, Rod wrote:

Well I found out what happened here (High Wycombe). Power off. Hospital
gennie kicks in - and blows up. (Well - small fire due to blocked
exhasut according to story. Not sure what to believe.)

Quite rightly:

quote
A large area of High Wycombe experienced a power cut shortly before midday
today after two north London power stations shut down.
/quote

Well I guess Sizewell B and Longannet are north of London but they aren't
"north London power stations". AFAIK there are no power stations within
the M25...

There is Barking power station, 1GW capacity, and it is north of the river..
However, I don't know if that was one of the nine power stations now
reported to have gone off line yesterday.

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 29 May 2008 01:00:33 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

There is Barking power station, 1GW capacity, and it is north of the
river..

And a few miles inside the M25. Part of the "dash for gas" of the mid
90's.

However, I don't know if that was one of the nine power stations now
reported to have gone off line yesterday.

I think you are reading more into the words that are (were) written than
they mean. The word used is "unit" which (should) mean a single generator
set within a power station. Longannet has 4 units and not sure about
Sizewell but I'd expect two to four.

However the maths of nine units dropping off line still don't work though.
And according to this:

"A spokesman for Longannet said they had four units but two were under
long-term maintenance for the effects of sulphur emissions and two were
down as part of their summer programme. as two of Longannet units where
off line for longterm maintenace."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7423169.stm

None of Longannets units were online as they where all down for
maintenance!

As always the media just can't get simple facts right. And I think that
story has been edited since the last time I read as the reference to "9
units" has disappeared and it now contradicts itself saying at the top
that at 2000BST Wed Sizewell B was back but three paras further down it
says that it could take several days to bring Sizewell B back online...

I've noticed this editing/changing of stories on the BBC website before
and I find it a little irritating.

No doubt there will be an offical investigation and report produced, I
wonder if that will be made public?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 01:00:33 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

There is Barking power station, 1GW capacity, and it is north of the
river..

And a few miles inside the M25. Part of the "dash for gas" of the mid
90's.

However, I don't know if that was one of the nine power stations now
reported to have gone off line yesterday.

I think you are reading more into the words that are (were) written than
they mean. The word used is "unit" which (should) mean a single generator
set within a power station. Longannet has 4 units and not sure about
Sizewell but I'd expect two to four.

However the maths of nine units dropping off line still don't work though.
And according to this:

"A spokesman for Longannet said they had four units but two were under
long-term maintenance for the effects of sulphur emissions and two were
down as part of their summer programme. as two of Longannet units where
off line for longterm maintenace."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7423169.stm

None of Longannets units were online as they where all down for
maintenance!

As always the media just can't get simple facts right. And I think that
story has been edited since the last time I read as the reference to "9
units" has disappeared and it now contradicts itself saying at the top
that at 2000BST Wed Sizewell B was back but three paras further down it
says that it could take several days to bring Sizewell B back online...

I've noticed this editing/changing of stories on the BBC website before
and I find it a little irritating.

No doubt there will be an offical investigation and report produced, I
wonder if that will be made public?


At least twice stories have been edited in response to complaints by me.
Really there should be a simple way of seeing earlier versions (if
that is what people need/want to see) - and indeed knowing that multiple
versions have been posted!

One was a statistical thing - story said chances of something had
changed - but all that had actually happened was the perception of the
chances had changed. I was quite surprised that they did indeed edit the
story to make (more) sense.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On Thu, 29 May 2008 01:00:33 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

There is Barking power station, 1GW capacity, and it is north of the
river..

And a few miles inside the M25. Part of the "dash for gas" of the mid
90's.

However, I don't know if that was one of the nine power stations now
reported to have gone off line yesterday.

I think you are reading more into the words that are (were) written than
they mean. The word used is "unit" which (should) mean a single generator
set within a power station. Longannet has 4 units and not sure about
Sizewell but I'd expect two to four.

The reports I read said power stations, but that has now been amended to
Sizewell B, Longannet and seven other generating units. Deeside gas plant
shut down around 3.30, while South Humber lost 80MW of output and stations
in Kent and Nottinghamshire are also said to have lost capacity.

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:08:31 +0100, Rod wrote:

I've noticed this editing/changing of stories on the BBC website before
and I find it a little irritating.

At least twice stories have been edited in response to complaints by me.

Same for me at least once. At least that shows they do take action on the
content of the stories but some of the "mistakes" should not be there in
the first place. If who ever wrote or makes an edit actually read through
the whole piece afterwards they should at least spot contradictions.

Really there should be a simple way of seeing earlier versions (if
that is what people need/want to see) - and indeed knowing that multiple
versions have been posted!

Aye, something like the "history" of a wiki page. TBH I would expect
something like that must exist internally in case of litigation. But they
aren't likely to make it public as it would highlight how crap they are at
reporting facts in the first place.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:30:21 +0100, "nightjar".me.uk wrote:

The reports I read said power stations, but that has now been amended to
Sizewell B, Longannet and seven other generating units. Deeside gas
plant shut down around 3.30, while South Humber lost 80MW of output and
stations in Kent and Nottinghamshire are also said to have lost
capacity.

The plot thickens... I guess we'll just have to wait for the offical
report to Ofgem from National Grid to be made available, if it ever is.

I'm wary to pin much on the other stations/units dropping off line as I
don't know what is "normal". The loss of 80MW when your margin is 1,000MW
isn't a big deal but is when your margin hardly exists because a major
station has unexpectedly disappeared like Sizewell B and/or Longannet and
other stations are still winding up to restore the margin.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:08:31 +0100, Rod wrote:

I've noticed this editing/changing of stories on the BBC website before
and I find it a little irritating.
At least twice stories have been edited in response to complaints by me.

Same for me at least once. At least that shows they do take action on the
content of the stories but some of the "mistakes" should not be there in
the first place. If who ever wrote or makes an edit actually read through
the whole piece afterwards they should at least spot contradictions.

Really there should be a simple way of seeing earlier versions (if
that is what people need/want to see) - and indeed knowing that multiple
versions have been posted!

Aye, something like the "history" of a wiki page. TBH I would expect
something like that must exist internally in case of litigation. But they
aren't likely to make it public as it would highlight how crap they are at
reporting facts in the first place.


I end up being massively impressed by the style, grammar, spelling and
everything else about the BBC news pages. I wouldn't have - but I live
in Bucks Free Press area and that would make *anything* look good by
comparison.

Yes - wiki-style history.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org