On May 20, 3:17*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
Must be something wrong with my telephone - and every other one I've seen.
No local earth. Nor would you expect one with a balanced line.

First, you are in the UK where BT only installs earthing on their
end. In North America, every phone line is earthed at both ends.

BT's switching computer is challenged by maybe 100 surges during
every thunderstorm - and no damage. New master socket installations
do not have that earthing - that is even required by code in North
America.

Second, balanced line remains because - well read the previous post
with care. Every wire in every phone line cable gets earthed through
a protector - therefore remains a balance line. What does a protector
do? Performs like an open switch. Only connects a wire to earth when
a surge exists.

Surge protectors don't stop or block surges. See the examples at:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse19.htm
http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=151
The effective protector makes that short (ie less than 3 meter)
connection to earth - that green wire. Each ethernet wire gets
connected to earth ground only during surges. Then that surge need
not find earth ground, destructively, via any switch or network card.
Then that surge will not overwhelm thousands of volts protection in
every ethernet interface.

Third, does BT shutdown service for five days while they replace
that £multi-million switching computer? Of course not. Hundreds of
surges during every thunderstorm and no switching computer must be
damaged. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Earth
ground provides ethernet protection.

Another industry professional demonstrates this solution in an
application note:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf
Routine is to connect communication wires between buildings and have
no damage. Those who would deny this also claim surge damage is
acceptable. Nonsense.

In article
,
w_tom wrote:
On May 20, 3:17 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
Must be something wrong with my telephone - and every other one I've
seen. No local earth. Nor would you expect one with a balanced line.

First, you are in the UK where BT only installs earthing on their
end. In North America, every phone line is earthed at both ends.

So they don't use balanced lines?

BT's switching computer is challenged by maybe 100 surges during
every thunderstorm - and no damage. New master socket installations
do not have that earthing - that is even required by code in North
America.

Obviously different ways of skinning a cat.


Second, balanced line remains because - well read the previous post
with care. Every wire in every phone line cable gets earthed through
a protector - therefore remains a balance line. What does a protector
do? Performs like an open switch. Only connects a wire to earth when
a surge exists.

Right. So they're not actually earthed, then? You should have made that
clear. What happens in a fault condition is something else.

Surge protectors don't stop or block surges. See the examples at:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse19.htm
http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=151
The effective protector makes that short (ie less than 3 meter)
connection to earth - that green wire. Each ethernet wire gets
connected to earth ground only during surges. Then that surge need
not find earth ground, destructively, via any switch or network card.
Then that surge will not overwhelm thousands of volts protection in
every ethernet interface.

Third, does BT shutdown service for five days while they replace
that £multi-million switching computer? Of course not. Hundreds of
surges during every thunderstorm and no switching computer must be
damaged. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Earth
ground provides ethernet protection.

Another industry professional demonstrates this solution in an
application note:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf
Routine is to connect communication wires between buildings and have
no damage. Those who would deny this also claim surge damage is
acceptable. Nonsense.

Do we actually speak the same language?

--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:37:41 UTC, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article
,
w_tom wrote:
On May 20, 3:17 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
Must be something wrong with my telephone - and every other one I've
seen. No local earth. Nor would you expect one with a balanced line.

First, you are in the UK where BT only installs earthing on their
end. In North America, every phone line is earthed at both ends.

So they don't use balanced lines?

BT's switching computer is challenged by maybe 100 surges during
every thunderstorm - and no damage. New master socket installations
do not have that earthing - that is even required by code in North
America.

Obviously different ways of skinning a cat.


Second, balanced line remains because - well read the previous post
with care. Every wire in every phone line cable gets earthed through
a protector - therefore remains a balance line. What does a protector
do? Performs like an open switch. Only connects a wire to earth when
a surge exists.

Right. So they're not actually earthed, then? You should have made that
clear. What happens in a fault condition is something else.

Surge protectors don't stop or block surges. See the examples at:
http://www.keison.co.uk/furse/furse19.htm
http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=151
The effective protector makes that short (ie less than 3 meter)
connection to earth - that green wire. Each ethernet wire gets
connected to earth ground only during surges. Then that surge need
not find earth ground, destructively, via any switch or network card.
Then that surge will not overwhelm thousands of volts protection in
every ethernet interface.

Third, does BT shutdown service for five days while they replace
that £multi-million switching computer? Of course not. Hundreds of
surges during every thunderstorm and no switching computer must be
damaged. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Earth
ground provides ethernet protection.

Another industry professional demonstrates this solution in an
application note:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf
Routine is to connect communication wires between buildings and have
no damage. Those who would deny this also claim surge damage is
acceptable. Nonsense.

Do we actually speak the same language?

See, I said you'd stir him up again!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On May 20, 1:37 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
So they don't use balanced lines?
...
Right. So they're not actually earthed, then? You should have made that
clear. What happens in a fault condition is something else.

How earthing is accomplished was plainly stated and easily read in
that first post:
Protection is about earthing every wire to the same earth
ground. Either a wire connects directly to earth OR a
surge protector makes that earthing connection.
How could you not understand that? Amazing how one knows, but never
bothers to learn or read the science.

Also bluntly stated was that telephone lines are balanced lines
while each wire makes a connection to earth ground. Why is that so
difficult? If you still don't know what a protector does - if you are
still listening to popular myths that promote ineffective protectors -
then how earthed phone lines (via protectors) remain balanced would
confuse you. Those myths can only survive if you ignore details –
such as ignoring what was in the first post.

Posted were concepts that have been standard protection without
damage for over 100 years. A superior solution that also costs less
money. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground, so that
(thousands of volts) protection inside routers and NICs is not
overwhelmed. That single point earth ground provides protection.
Provided were examples of effective protectors to make that connection
from each ethernet wire to earth – to do what BT also does in every
telco switching station.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...


Third, does BT shutdown service for five days while they replace
that £multi-million switching computer?

I bloody well hope not, I didn't do my job very well if it did.
Even if it did there were some switches built into containers that could be
installed.
They were used following a few disasters like fires.

In article
s.com, w_tom scribeth thus
On May 20, 3:17*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
Must be something wrong with my telephone - and every other one I've seen.
No local earth. Nor would you expect one with a balanced line.

First, you are in the UK where BT only installs earthing on their
end. In North America, every phone line is earthed at both ends.


Course a lot of comms stuff in the UK is on fibre now, doesn't seem that
bothered by Jove's bolts...

And a lot of BT copper disappears in the night with the Pikey's
spiriting it away;!..

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article
s.com, w_tom scribeth thus
On May 20, 3:17 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
Must be something wrong with my telephone - and every other one I've seen.
No local earth. Nor would you expect one with a balanced line.
First, you are in the UK where BT only installs earthing on their
end. In North America, every phone line is earthed at both ends.


Course a lot of comms stuff in the UK is on fibre now, doesn't seem that
bothered by Jove's bolts...

And a lot of BT copper disappears in the night with the Pikey's
spiriting it away;!..


If any of them read uk.d-i-y, they'll be after HiFi speaker cables...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On May 20, 2:54 pm, tony sayer wrote:
Course a lot of comms stuff in the UK is on fibre now, doesn't seem that
bothered by Jove's bolts...

Therefore all those switches were damaged when fiber did not exist?
Of course, not. It is routine to interconnect buildings with wires
and not have damage. There is zero reason to solve this problem with
fiber. A solution is so simple as to be standard even long before
the transistor existed.

Many have confused the OP with recommendations and futility that did
not exist and was not necessary even 70 years ago. It is routine and
simple to have surges without damage. Defined was effective
protection for ethernet cables. But as the many professionals note,
earthing must exist for all incoming wires. Every incoming utility
must connect to earth ground directly or via a surge protector.

In article
s.com, w_tom scribeth thus
On May 20, 2:54 pm, tony sayer wrote:
Course a lot of comms stuff in the UK is on fibre now, doesn't seem that
bothered by Jove's bolts...

Therefore all those switches were damaged when fiber did not exist?
Of course, not. It is routine to interconnect buildings with wires
and not have damage. There is zero reason to solve this problem with
fiber. A solution is so simple as to be standard even long before
the transistor existed.

Many have confused the OP with recommendations and futility that did
not exist and was not necessary even 70 years ago. It is routine and
simple to have surges without damage. Defined was effective
protection for ethernet cables. But as the many professionals note,
earthing must exist for all incoming wires. Every incoming utility
must connect to earth ground directly or via a surge protector.

So how do you earth a fibre cable then?..
--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 21 May 2008 00:28:53 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be w_tom
wrote this:-

Many have confused the OP

Mind reading is also one of your "talents"? Fascinating.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54