Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place at
one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

What would the group suggest?

--
Chris

On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls,

Why?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls,

Why?

Why in the cavity walls? Well, the amps all floor level, and the
speakers just below ceiling level, so I've either got to have a visible
drop of cable, or run it inside the walls.

--
Chris

Christopher Key wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls,

Why?

Why in the cavity walls? Well, the amps all floor level, and the
speakers just below ceiling level, so I've either got to have a visible
drop of cable, or run it inside the walls.


Sorry, I'm talking rubbish. I don't mean cavity walls, these are
internal stud walls.

--
Chris

On May 18, 12:38*pm, Christopher Key wrote:
Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place at
one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. *The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. *Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

What would the group suggest?

--
Chris

I would recommend Van Damme 'Black Series'.

http://www.vdctrading.com/products.a...D=1&Page=2#p15

You can get it from CPC - it is very robust and won't get damaged when
you pull it through sharp holes and bend it round tight corners.

Steve

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christopher Key wrote:

Christopher Key wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to
use. It's going to be run within cavity walls,

Why?

Why in the cavity walls? Well, the amps all floor level, and the
speakers just below ceiling level, so I've either got to have a
visible drop of cable, or run it inside the walls.


Sorry, I'm talking rubbish. I don't mean cavity walls, these are
internal stud walls.

How are you proposing to get the cable inside the stud wall? There are
likely to be a couple of horizontal noggins between floor and ceiling
height. You will need to drill through these, but won't be able to get at
them without removing some of the plasterboard. Do you *really* want to
wreck the wall?

Why not just run sone square white plastic trunking up a corner, and put the
wires inside that? With regard to the cable itself, use good quality
stranded speaker cable - as fat as you can accommodate - far better than
solid core house-wiring cable.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christopher Key wrote:

Christopher Key wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to
use. It's going to be run within cavity walls,
Why?
Why in the cavity walls? Well, the amps all floor level, and the
speakers just below ceiling level, so I've either got to have a
visible drop of cable, or run it inside the walls.

Sorry, I'm talking rubbish. I don't mean cavity walls, these are
internal stud walls.

How are you proposing to get the cable inside the stud wall? There are
likely to be a couple of horizontal noggins between floor and ceiling
height. You will need to drill through these, but won't be able to get at
them without removing some of the plasterboard. Do you *really* want to
wreck the wall?

There are noggins in the wall, and I was expecting to have to remove an
area of plasterboard around them to drill through. As I'm going to have
to have to cut holes in the ceiling too though[1], the extra work of one
additional hole to make good in the wall is minimal, and in my opinion
worth it to avoid anything visible.

Why not just run sone square white plastic trunking up a corner, and put the
wires inside that? With regard to the cable itself, use good quality
stranded speaker cable - as fat as you can accommodate - far better than
solid core house-wiring cable.

I'm not wanting to start a flame-war here on speaker cable. I've always
been of the opinion that cable is cable, as that for speaker level
voltages, it's only the cross sectional area that matters. At audio
frequencies, the skin effect is negligible (a rough calculation suggests
a skin depth of ~1mm for copper at 20kHz). Obviously stranded is much
easier to run, and I certainly wouldn't use solid core cable anywhere
where it'll be subject to movement, but are there any other reasons that
I've missed? Is there any specific reason why house wiring is always
done with solid core cable, or is it just cost?



[1] This is a flat, hence no access from above via floorboards. The
ceiling is a suspended one, with a ~8" void above in which all the
cabling etc is run.

--
Chris

On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100, Christopher Key wrote:

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire,

Proper heavy gauge speaker wire would be better than yer average "zip
wire". Anything less than 2.5mm^2 is not heavy enough. I'm not bothered
about oxygen free or aligned crystal ********, just lots of copper between
amp and speaker. That is the only thing that I have found to make any
genuinely audible difference before/after, particulary to the bass.

--
Cheers
Dave.

stevelup wrote:
On May 18, 12:38 pm, Christopher Key wrote:
Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place at
one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

What would the group suggest?


I would recommend Van Damme 'Black Series'.

http://www.vdctrading.com/products.a...D=1&Page=2#p15

You can get it from CPC - it is very robust and won't get damaged when
you pull it through sharp holes and bend it round tight corners.


I've taken a look, CPC only seem to do it in 100m lengths (or 50m for
the version heavy gauges). The price doesn't seem too bad, similar to
Maplin's standard zip wire of a similar gauge, although I don't need
anything like 100m. At most, I'd need 50m if I also used the same for
the outdoor speakers.

I'm still interested by the recommendation for stranded rather than
solid core though. For trailing cables across a stage etc, it makes
perfect sense, but for permanent installations with no movement?

--
Chris

On Sun, 18 May 2008 14:54:57 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

As I'm going to have
to have to cut holes in the ceiling too though[1], the extra work of one
additional hole to make good in the wall is minimal, and in my opinion
worth it to avoid anything visible.

If the aim is a neat installation then I suggest splashing out for
some suitable sockets as well.
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/category/9 is one supplier of such
things.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Christopher Key wrote:
The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation.

No reason not to for things like speakers. Solid core is cheaper - that's
all. Alarm cable, for example, is flexible.

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
If the aim is a neat installation then I suggest splashing out for
some suitable sockets as well.
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/category/9 is one supplier of such
things.

Ugg. Make up your own using Speakons.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 15:18:04 +0100,it is alleged that Christopher Key
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]

I'm still interested by the recommendation for stranded rather than
solid core though. For trailing cables across a stage etc, it makes
perfect sense, but for permanent installations with no movement?

I think it's originally down to cost, and also to the terminations
used (solid core or a small number of strands is easier to terminate
successfully on terminals of the type used in sockets etc.)

Certainly many conduit installations use stranded cable, and not
always 7 strand, sometimes it's 32 strand, I recall using 32 strand
2.5mm flexibles in conduit, the cable was made by BICC and complied to
the relevent standard.

So to sum up, I don't think there's any reason at all why stranded
core cable shouldn't be used in this case, it certainly makes the
routing easier than using a house wiring cable.


--
_
( ) ASCII ribbon campaign against html e-mail
X and usenet posts
/ \

On Sun, 18 May 2008 16:34:01 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Ugg.

Why?

Make up your own using Speakons.

Do they come in any other colour than the disgusting blue colour?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 16:34:01 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Ugg.

Why?

Banana plugs are so '50s. ;-)

Make up your own using Speakons.

Do they come in any other colour than the disgusting blue colour?

You could spray paint them any colour you wish, I suppose. But I've seen
them in black.

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2008-05-18 17:20:40 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 18 May 2008 16:34:01 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Ugg.

Why?

Make up your own using Speakons.

Do they come in any other colour than the disgusting blue colour?

Friends of the Earth Green?

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Proper heavy gauge speaker wire would be better than yer average "zip
wire". Anything less than 2.5mm^2 is not heavy enough.

Not necessarily so (IMHO of course). The size needed depends totally on
the run length involved. The only thing that matters is the total
resistance and a good rule of thumb is to keep that below ~5% of the
nominal speaker impedance - so 0.4 ohm max for 8 ohm speakers. Hence
0.5 mm^2 is OK for runs of up to 5 m, 1mm^2 for 10 m, 1.5 mm^2 for 15 m,
and so on.

There's no reason why the OP shouldn't use flex. I did mine in 1.5 mm^2
arctic flex (run under the floor, clipped to joists).

--
Andy

On Sun, 18 May 2008 22:33:24 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-05-18 17:20:40 +0100, David Hansen
said:

On Sun, 18 May 2008 16:34:01 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

Ugg.

Why?

Make up your own using Speakons.

Do they come in any other colour than the disgusting blue colour?

Friends of the Earth Green?

That's not particularly green..

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Christopher Key wrote:
stevelup wrote:
On May 18, 12:38 pm, Christopher Key wrote:
Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place at
one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

What would the group suggest?

I would recommend Van Damme 'Black Series'.

http://www.vdctrading.com/products.a...D=1&Page=2#p15

You can get it from CPC - it is very robust and won't get damaged when
you pull it through sharp holes and bend it round tight corners.


I've taken a look, CPC only seem to do it in 100m lengths (or 50m for
the version heavy gauges). The price doesn't seem too bad, similar to
Maplin's standard zip wire of a similar gauge, although I don't need
anything like 100m. At most, I'd need 50m if I also used the same for
the outdoor speakers.

I'm still interested by the recommendation for stranded rather than
solid core though. For trailing cables across a stage etc, it makes
perfect sense, but for permanent installations with no movement?

I've used single mains cable of the kind used to pull through conduits,
that is no outside sheath just the single pvc insulation. I had a 15m
run of cable and powerful amps so I chose 6 square mm. Worked a treat.
Though thick, the cables have many cores so are reasonably flexible. I
have now terminated them in wall plates that I made myself with the
despised 4mm sockets.

Peter Scott

In article ,
Peter Scott wrote:
I've used single mains cable of the kind used to pull through conduits,
that is no outside sheath just the single pvc insulation. I had a 15m
run of cable and powerful amps so I chose 6 square mm. Worked a treat.
Though thick, the cables have many cores so are reasonably flexible. I
have now terminated them in wall plates that I made myself with the
despised 4mm sockets.

My dislike of them - apart from the look - is they don't normally have a
decent cord grip and also pull out too easily. Not a problem at an amp
connection but can be for a wall outlet. But mainly the look - they are
the pants if used with sleeved cable.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 19 May 2008 09:06:58 +0100 someone who may be "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote this:-

wall plates that I made myself with the
despised 4mm sockets.

My dislike of them - apart from the look - is they don't normally have a
decent cord grip and also pull out too easily. Not a problem at an amp
connection but can be for a wall outlet.

Wall outlets, for speakers, I would have thought are likely to have
a short length of cable plugged into them, leading from the socket
to a wall mounted speaker. Unlikely to be pulled out I would have
thought.

Even floor mounted speakers tend to be placed with not enough space
to walk behind them. If there is space behind them, which is better
tripping up and possibly felling the speaker, or pulling the cable
out of the socket?



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On May 18, 3:18*pm, Christopher Key wrote:
stevelup wrote:
On May 18, 12:38 pm, Christopher Key wrote:
Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place at
one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. *The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. *Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

In message , Christopher Key
writes
Hello,

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to use.
It's going to be run within cavity walls, terminating at a face place
at one end, and running into the back of the speaker at the the other.

The obvious solution is to run a sufficient gauge of zip wire, although
something seems inherently wrong about using stranded wire for a
permanent, fixed installation. The alternative seems to be to use
something like T&E, and switch to zip wire via a concealed (but
accessible) choc block connector at the speaker end. Again, however,
this seems like it could be potentially confusing to any future occupant.

What would the group suggest?


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.
--
Gordon

"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid
conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

Ah but we are talking "esoteric hifi" (it's better but you can't hear the
difference).

Power lead anyone?....

http://tinyurl.com/6e3s2j


Ooops where did rationality just run off to...?


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In message , Bob Mannix
writes
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid
conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid conductor
and multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El Cheapo sound
system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying anything else!

The effect is on the low frequencies, not the high!


Ah but we are talking "esoteric hifi" (it's better but you can't hear the
difference).

People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference and will strive to get
the very best reproduction of the original recording. It's a bit like
the different sound of a direct drive turntable compared with a belt
driven turntable. Some people, like me, can hear the difference and wont
touch a direct drive.

So, keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about and
leave we purists to our enjoyment as it's lost on the likes of you!

Power lead anyone?....

http://tinyurl.com/6e3s2j


Ooops where did rationality just run off to...?



--
Phil Morris

On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:53:07 +0100 someone who may be Gordon Hunt
wrote this:-

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population.

A colleague recommends having a hearing test before buying Hi-Fi
equipment. That way someone will not buy something which is beyond
their ears.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote in



A colleague recommends having a hearing test before buying Hi-Fi
equipment. That way someone will not buy something which is beyond
their ears.

I've always regarded it as one of the benefits of old age - I spent a
fortune on hifi in my youth, now I perceive the same quality of sound from a
transistor radio - quids in.



--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.

"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Mannix
writes
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would
advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid
conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid conductor and
multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El Cheapo sound
system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying anything else!

The effect is on the low frequencies, not the high!

Yes and the effect of multi strand is on the high frequency not the low!




Ah but we are talking "esoteric hifi" (it's better but you can't hear the
difference).

People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference and will strive to get
the very best reproduction of the original recording.

Like hell they can, it has been proven numerous times that most of the
"benefits" are not real.

It's a bit like the different sound of a direct drive turntable compared
with a belt driven turntable. Some people, like me, can hear the
difference and wont touch a direct drive.

There are reasons why a direct drive turntable may sound different to a belt
drive turntable.
As a HiFi nut you should have known that.
Note: I said different not better.

Next you will be telling me that a digital feed is better if you use
expensive cables.
Or that £10 DVD players are worse at delivering a digital 5.1 signal to a
HiFi DA.


So, keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about and
leave we purists to our enjoyment as it's lost on the likes of you!

You can enjoy what you like, don't come here and tell people to waste time
and cash on your imagination.


Power lead anyone?....

http://tinyurl.com/6e3s2j


Ooops where did rationality just run off to...?



--
Phil Morris

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 May 2008 18:53:07 +0100 someone who may be Gordon Hunt
wrote this:-

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population.

A colleague recommends having a hearing test before buying Hi-Fi
equipment. That way someone will not buy something which is beyond
their ears.

Why?
Even the cheapest HiFi will be beyond most peoples hearing and the
distortion still matters more.

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population.

A colleague recommends having a hearing test before buying Hi-Fi
equipment. That way someone will not buy something which is beyond
their ears.

There's a great deal more to good sound reproduction than frequency
response. These days it's probably the least important part.

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Gordon Hunt wrote:

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid conductor
and multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El Cheapo sound
system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying anything else!
snip

The only way to find out if you can tell the cable apart is for someone
else to set the system up with the cable where you cannot tell which
cable is in use - even by monitoring their reactions. Typically a
"double blind" test in science is done so that the person recording the
reactions doesn't know which whatever-it-is is being tested.

I'm fairly sure I can't tell the two types apart. Have you ever done a
double-blind test?

I'm DAMN sure I can't tell a 300 quid car stereo from a 3000 quid one
when doing 70 down the motorway. Others seem happy to pay the money.

Andy

In message , Andy Champ
writes
Gordon Hunt wrote:
And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of
the population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid
conductor and multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El
Cheapo sound system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying
anything else!
snip

The only way to find out if you can tell the cable apart is for someone
else to set the system up with the cable where you cannot tell which
cable is in use - even by monitoring their reactions. Typically a
"double blind" test in science is done so that the person recording the
reactions doesn't know which whatever-it-is is being tested.

I'm fairly sure I can't tell the two types apart. Have you ever done a
double-blind test?

I'm DAMN sure I can't tell a 300 quid car stereo from a 3000 quid one
when doing 70 down the motorway.

Or likewise a home one in the average living room



--
geoff

Christopher Key wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Christopher Key wrote:

Christopher Key wrote:
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:38:10 +0100 someone who may be Christopher
Key wrote this:-

I'm wanting to put in a few short runs of cabling to a pair of wall
mounted speakers, and am wondering what sort of cable is best to
use. It's going to be run within cavity walls,
Why?
Why in the cavity walls? Well, the amps all floor level, and the
speakers just below ceiling level, so I've either got to have a
visible drop of cable, or run it inside the walls.

Sorry, I'm talking rubbish. I don't mean cavity walls, these are
internal stud walls.

How are you proposing to get the cable inside the stud wall? There are
likely to be a couple of horizontal noggins between floor and ceiling
height. You will need to drill through these, but won't be able to get at
them without removing some of the plasterboard. Do you *really* want to
wreck the wall?

There are noggins in the wall, and I was expecting to have to remove an
area of plasterboard around them to drill through. As I'm going to have
to have to cut holes in the ceiling too though[1], the extra work of one
additional hole to make good in the wall is minimal, and in my opinion
worth it to avoid anything visible.

Why not just run sone square white plastic trunking up a corner, and put the
wires inside that? With regard to the cable itself, use good quality
stranded speaker cable - as fat as you can accommodate - far better than
solid core house-wiring cable.

I'm not wanting to start a flame-war here on speaker cable. I've always
been of the opinion that cable is cable, as that for speaker level
voltages, it's only the cross sectional area that matters.

quite so

At audio
frequencies, the skin effect is negligible

totally. The voice coils themselves are several ohms, and its not a
problem.

(a rough calculation suggests
a skin depth of ~1mm for copper at 20kHz). Obviously stranded is much
easier to run, and I certainly wouldn't use solid core cable anywhere
where it'll be subject to movement, but are there any other reasons that
I've missed? Is there any specific reason why house wiring is always
done with solid core cable, or is it just cost?

2 reasons: cost and the fact that stranded sags where its clipped
direct.




[1] This is a flat, hence no access from above via floorboards. The
ceiling is a suspended one, with a ~8" void above in which all the
cabling etc is run.

There is another option. Enamelled copper wire - I dont know your
details, but often it can be run on the surface without even being
noticeable.

http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....Voltage_Wiring


NT

In article ,
Andy Champ wrote:
I'm DAMN sure I can't tell a 300 quid car stereo from a 3000 quid one
when doing 70 down the motorway. Others seem happy to pay the money.

The only reason to pay that sort of money would be to up the maximum
level. And pretty near anyone could tell that difference...

I did pay rather more than 300 quid for the system in one of my cars -
it's got DAB, and the aerial alone cost 100 quid. But the actual reception
round London is miles better than FM. I'm not starting a war about DAB
sound quality, though. ;-)

--
*It doesn't take a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Gordon Hunt wrote:

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid conductor
and multistranded conductors,
[...]
People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference

"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into
his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a
man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will
scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will
refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something
which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he
will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is
explained in this way." -- Bertrand Russell.

--
Andy

In message , "dennis@home"
writes

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would
advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid
conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of
the population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid
conductor and multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El
Cheapo sound system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying
anything else!

The effect is on the low frequencies, not the high!

Yes and the effect of multi strand is on the high frequency not the low!


Wrong! The "effect" not the technicalities, are most evident in the
lower register giving a cleaner low frequency sound. High frequency
attenuation is not the primary reason for multistrand cables for
speakers.



Ah but we are talking "esoteric hifi" (it's better but you can't hear the
difference).

People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference and will strive to
get the very best reproduction of the original recording.

Like hell they can, it has been proven numerous times that most of the
"benefits" are not real.

The ears and brain are the only instruments capable of measuring the
finite differences between one component and another. You, nor anyone
else, is able to hear what I hear. I can tell the difference and detect
the subtle changes that something as simple as changing the speaker
cables can make.

As another poster intimated, the only way to assess HiFi is to "listen"
to the equipment and in your own home!

It's a bit like the different sound of a direct drive turntable
compared with a belt driven turntable. Some people, like me, can hear
the difference and wont touch a direct drive.

There are reasons why a direct drive turntable may sound different to a
belt drive turntable.
As a HiFi nut you should have known that.
Note: I said different not better.

But a belt driven turntable does sound better. Direct Drive turntables
sound rather flat and lack brilliance.

Valve final amps sound much better than solid state because they give a
warmer, more pleasing richness to the sound.

Direct cut vinyl sounds far superior to CD any day, Even good quality
standard vinyl is far more pleasant to listen to.

Reel to reel tape at 15 ips sounds so much better than CD.

Tests many years ago showed that groups of listeners preferred up to 5%
harmonic distortion because it made the sound warmer and easier on the
ears.

The fact is that it is the ears that determine what sounds good.
Everyone has a different opinion but you need to have ears and a brain
that can "hear".

Listen to "real" music not battery farmed crap and you might start to
hear the subtleties.


Next you will be telling me that a digital feed is better if you use
expensive cables.

You'd have to be an idiot to believe that, were you?

Or that £10 DVD players are worse at delivering a digital 5.1 signal to
a HiFi DA.

If the only reason you buy equipment is because it's cheap and the
specification says it's as good as or better than something else, you
have proved my point that HiFi is wasted on you.

--
Gordon

"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...
In message , Bob Mannix
writes
"dennis@home" wrote in message
...


"Gordon Hunt" wrote in message
...


Not a "HiFi" installation then!

You should use proper speaker cable which is multistrand. I would
advise
90 strands as a minimum unless you're using crap Japanese speakers of
course.

Which will make zero difference to the sound compared to a solid
conductor.
We are not talking RF here.

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of the
population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid conductor and
multistranded conductors, you'd best stick with your El Cheapo sound
system from Comet as you'd be wasting your money buying anything else!

The effect is on the low frequencies, not the high!


Ah but we are talking "esoteric hifi" (it's better but you can't hear the
difference).

People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference and will strive to get
the very best reproduction of the original recording.

People with "real ears" could best hear any differences at 19, when they
can't afford esoteric hifi. By the time they can afford it their hearing has
deteriorated (as happens to all humans). Ah, the irony of it.

So, keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about and
leave we purists to our enjoyment as it's lost on the likes of you!

Ooo tetchy. If you're so happy with your enjoyment, why get upset? Methinks
he doth protest too much ). I have no problem if you wish to waste your
money on such things and am happy you enjoy it.

(Other signs of the esoteric hifi enthusiast - they always discuss the
equipment and sound rendition, not the music and get really humpy if others
don't take it seriously - what they might make of a d-i-y set up, gettong
back on topic, God knows!)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article ,
Bob Mannix wrote:
(Other signs of the esoteric hifi enthusiast - they always discuss the
equipment and sound rendition, not the music and get really humpy if
others don't take it seriously - what they might make of a d-i-y set
up, gettong back on topic, God knows!)

Oh I dunno. Most who make their own Hi-Fi believe it far superior to
anything commercially available. There used to be one such on uk.rec.audio
who started on Hi-Fi rather late in life and tried to re-invent the wheel.
Liked single ended valve amps which of course have a low power output so
made horn loaded single unit speakers for maximum efficiency. And (of
course ;-)) only like vinyl. Each design he made was described with the
most flowery superlatives. Then he'd move on to another which was better,
flogging the old on Ebay.
And constantly mentioned that anyone who visited and heard his systems
was immediately 'converted'. Even although he admitted his listening room
had poor acoustics.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Andy Wade wrote:
Gordon Hunt wrote:

And your response clearly shows why the term HiFi is lost on 99% of
the population. If you cannot hear the difference between solid
conductor and multistranded conductors,
[...]
People with "real" ears "can" hear the difference

"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into
his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a
man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will
scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will
refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something
which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he
will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is
explained in this way." -- Bertrand Russell.


That agrees with my instincts. I believe it. :-)

Have (or is that has?) Mythbusters covered HiFi?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org