When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

David.

"DavidM" wrote in message


Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

David.

Did the cupboards stay up?

Providing the plugs in the wall are solid and don't move about in the wall
then it'll suffice the way they done the work.

DavidM wrote:
When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

David.

It's the best way IMO although I don't like drilling through wood with a
masonry bit, or for that matter a multi purpose bit. The principle is
sound though because you get an accurate, straight hole with no danger
of the screw bending.
Most plugs work pretty well like this but they usually ends up at the
bottom of the masonry hole so you get a length of screw with no plug
round it, but that's presumably how they're deigned to work. The plastic
plugs you cut to length would be closer to a proper frame fixing, but I
don't see them around any more, and I didn't like them enough to start
trawling the internet for them.

On 2 May, 13:10, Stuart Noble wrote:
DavidM wrote:
When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

David.

It's the best way IMO although I don't like drilling through wood with a
masonry bit, or for that matter a multi purpose bit. The principle is
sound though because you get an accurate, straight hole with no danger
of the screw bending.
Most plugs work pretty well like this but they usually ends up at the
bottom of the masonry hole so you get a length of screw with no plug
round it, but that's presumably how they're deigned to work. The plastic
plugs you cut to length would be closer to a proper frame fixing, but I
don't see them around any more, and I didn't like them enough to start
trawling the internet for them.

The trouble is, the hole through the wood is too big, so the thing
ends up hanging a little lower than it should (unless tightening a
countersink screw centres it up).
The whole point of a frame fixing is it has a sleeve right through to
keep the thing centred.
I'm sure you could get away with it for kitchen cupboards though.
As far as getting a straight hole, I would drill straight though with
a smaller bit, then enlarge the hole with the unit removed. You can
get very small frame fixings also.
Simon.

DavidM wrote:

When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

Its an OK way of doing it. It works because a SDS will hammer a drill
through most things regardless of whether you are using the right type
of drill or not! A slightly more elegant way is with a multi material
bit. With practice you can sink the plug to an appropriate depth.

You need to take care with chipboard backs etc to make sure the exit
wound from the SDS does not significantly weaken the material, it is
also worth noting that you end up with a plug sized clearance hole
through the wood[1]. If you were doing it the traditional way, then the
hole would be a better fit for the screw and there would be less
movement permitted on the screw hole.

[1] This is not necessarily a bad thing - it does give a little extra
"adjustment" room for levelling etc.

--
Cheers,

John.

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DavidM wrote:
When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

SDS drills will hammer their way through wood quite effectively.

Its a poor mans hammer fixer really, won't work with a lipped plug. I'd
rather use a proper fixing
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/28374/...%20FIX-_-28374

Best way to fix battens to walls, drill at one end, hammer fixing in 90%,
level up the batten & drill & fix other end. Once the ends are fixed you
can add as many extra fixings as you want.

I think its a bit of a bodge myself.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"DavidM" wrote in message
...
When fixing timber (eg a cupboard) to wall I've always drilled a hole
(suitable for the screw) through the timber, offered the timber up to
the wall, lightly tapped a nail or screw through the each hole to mark
the position on the wall, removed the timber, drilled the wall,
inserted the plugs, repositioned the timber then inserted the screw
and tightened it down.

When watching some kitchen fitters recently, they positioned the
cupboard, whacked a hole though the timber and into the wall with an
SDS drill (without changing the bit), pushed a plug into the hole in
the timber, inserted a screw finger tight into the plug, hammered it
into the hole leaving about 15mm of screw projecting, then tightened
the screw down. A lot quicker, and you don't have to worry about the
hole in the wall drifting out of position, but I wonder does it give a
secure fixing, as the face of the plug is not being pulled up against
the timber? I know this works for frame fixings, but normal plugs are
a bit different (or maybe not)?

Is this the modern way of doing things, or a just quick bodge?

David.

For anything heavy duty I now use "frame fixers" in just this way, although
I have only tried the ones that you screw in all the way - these seem a bit
different to the "hammer fix" ones. They work very well in the bits of our
house that are made of "aircrete" type blocks.

BTW I bought a huge quantity of frame ficers very cheaply from Screwfix a
few years ago. Not sure if they still do them but if you try to buy them in
Wickes they are horrifically expensive. I think a pack of 8 or 10 was about
£8.something the other day. Eek! They're having a laugh.

Regards,
Simon.

I've now switched to spax masonry screws and find them a strong and
fabulously quick fixing:

http://www.screwfix.com/cats/A435920...ax/Spax-T-Star

Much more expensive than plugs and screws, but in practice it's a few
quid extra at most for a really secure (and easily removable if
necessary) fixing.