http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

£22K for that?

Don.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk



£15K for a porch? no wonder she didn't pay! Nice porch though...

Steve

On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

cerberus wrote:
In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770



�22K for that?


As I read it, 22K for a conservatory AND "that". No idea what the
conservatory is (or should that be "was"?) like.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

On 2008-04-22 20:51:49 +0100, "cerberus" said:

In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--
Dave

- The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

£22K for that?

Don.

That was just the porch in the pictures - conservatory was presumably
at the rear.

In article 480e43c5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall writes
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...rticle_id=5612
16&in_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Plus the criminal damage of the demolition, not very bright at all.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

cerberus wrote:
In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

£22K for that?

It started off saying she owed £15K - the £22K was the cost to the
builder - presumably including the time wasted chasing the bad debt, and
also that to fund the dismantling of the conservatory and the demolition
of the porch.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


Is it just me or should the roof have been secured to the house wall in some
way? In the latter pictures it appears to not have been. Also would an old
bedsheet really protect the neighbour's car from flying debri?

Cheers

John

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:51:49 UTC, "cerberus"
wrote:

In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


£22K for that?

No, 15K for that and a conservatory.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

John wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in
message om...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770


Is it just me or should the roof have been secured to the house wall
in some way? In the latter pictures it appears to not have been. Also
would an old bedsheet really protect the neighbour's car from
flying debri?
Cheers

John

No John,

The roof rafters (or trusses) would have been secured to wallplates resting
on and fixed to the the side walls of the porch - exactly the same method
that is used to 'secure' the roof on your house.


Tanner-'op

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the
work. Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment? If I
accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit before I order
the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of the price so I'm in
front before I start.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article 480e43c5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall writes
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...rticle_id=5612
16&in_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Plus the criminal damage of the demolition, not very bright at all.

The demolition was carried out with the permission of the property owners -
the local Council - and with the Police in attendance.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:52:59 +0100, Mr Sandman wrote:

£15K for a porch? no wonder she didn't pay! Nice porch though...

"Nigel Gray sent in his workmen to demolish the porch with sledgehammers
and dismantle and remove the conservatory."

15k for weeks work and just the porch to show, agreed. But 15k proch and
conservatory isn't too bad, but only a week? Maybe that is why the proch
roof doesn't appear to be attached to the building...

--
Cheers
Dave.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the
work. Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment? If I
accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials then my
response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would give would be
10% (if I'm in a good mood) and I would be keeping 10% back at the end of
the job as a 'retention in case of defects' for an agreed period (for a
small job may that would be three months max and for a larger job, six
months).

Also, if it was a large job lasting several months, you would be paid on a
monthly, incremental basis on the agreed work done - not as a 'lump' sum
before the start of the job or during it to pay for 'materials'.

If you as a 'builder' didn't like that, then there are plenty more out
there...

Please don't take this as an insult, but I consider those that pay builders
(and other trades) up-front for *any* works - total idiots and are asking to
be 'scammed'.


Tanner-'op

In article , nightjar
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article 480e43c5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall writes
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_article_id=5
612
16&in_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Plus the criminal damage of the demolition, not very bright at all.

The demolition was carried out with the permission of the property owners -
the local Council - and with the Police in attendance.

Nothing like that in the referenced Mail article or those I have found
on searching.

Just:

"A council spokeswoman said: "Council tenants are allowed to make
improvements to their home.""

"Unfortunately in this case, this private agreement has gone wrong. Mrs
Dovey will be billed the cost of putting the property back to its
original state."

If the tenants are allowed to make improvements and "a private agreement
has gone wrong" then it would seem inappropriate for the council to give
permission to demolish, this should be a civil matter between the tenant
and the builder.

ISTM a pretty clear example of criminal damage.

Ah, got this from the Telegraph:

€œIn fairness to the council, they gave me their full backing to tear
down the work - and even told me to leave the rubble on her doorstep.€�

Again, if the tenant is allowed to make improvements then I don't see
how the council have authority to give permission to demolish if it is
on the grounds of the debt alone. I'd love to hear the full story.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , nightjar
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article 480e43c5@qaanaaq, Andy Hall writes
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_article_id=5
612
16&in_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Plus the criminal damage of the demolition, not very bright at all.

The demolition was carried out with the permission of the property
owners -
the local Council - and with the Police in attendance.

Nothing like that in the referenced Mail article or those I have found on
searching.

It is within the area covered by my local radio station and they were
interviewing him this morning.

Colin Bignell

Anne Jackson wrote:
The message from Rod contains these words:

cerberus wrote:
In om,
The Medway Handyman typed:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

�22K for that?

As I read it, 22K for a conservatory AND "that". No idea what the
conservatory is (or should that be "was"?) like.

It's on the video...


Ah, right. Having read enough I didn't bother with that.
--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
www.thyromind.info www.thyroiduk.org www.altsupportthyroid.org

Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the
work. Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) and I would be keeping 10%
back at the end of the job as a 'retention in case of defects' for an
agreed period (for a small job may that would be three months max and
for a larger job, six months).

Never had a problem matey. I ask for it and get it - 100% success rate. I
don't specify that its for materials, I just ask for a 50% deposit.

Also, if it was a large job lasting several months, you would be paid
on a monthly, incremental basis on the agreed work done - not as a
'lump' sum before the start of the job or during it to pay for
'materials'.
If you as a 'builder' didn't like that, then there are plenty more out
there...

I wouldn't accept the job on any other terms, I don't need 'bad business',
there are plenty more customers out there....

Please don't take this as an insult, but I consider those that pay
builders (and other trades) up-front for *any* works - total idiots
and are asking to be 'scammed'.

Taken as intended. Customers are offered the contact numbers for any of the
clients featured on my web site + I am accredited by my local Trading
Standards. People trust me and are quite right to do so. I would never
scam anyone.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

cerberus wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
£22K for that?

Nope, £15,000 for that and a conservatory

--
'S rioghal mo dhream
www.cheesesoup.myby.co.uk

On Apr 22, 8:51*pm, "cerberus" wrote:
.com,
The Medway Handyman typed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...s.html?in_arti...

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

£22K for that?

Don.

£15K for the original porch *and conservatory*. I'd say £7k for the
demolition job was a bit steep, though.

MBQ

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:41:16 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Apr 22, 8:51Â*pm, "cerberus" wrote:
.com,
The Medway Handyman typed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...s.html?in_arti...

£22K for that?

Don.

£15K for the original porch *and conservatory*. I'd say £7k for the
demolition job was a bit steep, though.

He said the deolition cost him about 1.5K. The rest was other costs
(presumably debt chasing, etc.)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 2008-04-23 10:36:50 +0100, "Bob Eager" said:

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:41:16 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Apr 22, 8:51*pm, "cerberus" wrote:
.com,
The Medway Handyman typed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...s.html?in_arti...

£22K for that?

Don.

£15K for the original porch *and conservatory*. I'd say £7k for the
demolition job was a bit steep, though.

He said the deolition cost him about 1.5K. The rest was other costs
(presumably debt chasing, etc.)

Even so, 5.5k to chase a 15k debt........

His legal representative must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) snip

Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other day, up
front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials part way through
jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the customer prop up the
builder's cashflow? Doesn't work like that in any other businesses - more
usually the customer has a grace period to pay...

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the
work. Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) and I would be keeping 10%
back at the end of the job as a 'retention in case of defects' for an
agreed period (for a small job may that would be three months max and
for a larger job, six months).

Never had a problem matey. I ask for it and get it - 100% success
rate. I don't specify that its for materials, I just ask for a 50%
deposit.

Then those that give that amount of deposit are idiots Dave - as I said, I
would only pay 10% maximum and the rest either in stages or on satifactory
job completion.

Also, if it was a large job lasting several months, you would be paid
on a monthly, incremental basis on the agreed work done - not as a
'lump' sum before the start of the job or during it to pay for
'materials'.
If you as a 'builder' didn't like that, then there are plenty more
out there...

I wouldn't accept the job on any other terms, I don't need 'bad
business', there are plenty more customers out there....

I accept it works both ways, but there are more customers scammed than
builders - especially those who dp not know the system.

Please don't take this as an insult, but I consider those that pay
builders (and other trades) up-front for *any* works - total idiots
and are asking to be 'scammed'.

Taken as intended. Customers are offered the contact numbers for any
of the clients featured on my web site + I am accredited by my local
Trading Standards. People trust me and are quite right to do so. I
would never scam anyone.

Then you are one of the 'good' ones, but still would not use your services
if you asked me for such a large deposit.

All the best,

From a very old, retired builder himself!

Tanner-'op

Doki wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) snip

Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other
day, up front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials
part way through jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the
customer prop up the builder's cashflow? Doesn't work like that in
any other businesses - more usually the customer has a grace period
to pay...

But why should I finance the customers project? Without any guarantee of
payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or whatever down the
swanee - could put him out of business.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as well.

Certainly does work in other business's. Plumbers want 50% upfront for
boiler installs aroud here.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman wrote:
But why should I finance the customers project? Without any guarantee of
payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or whatever down the
swanee - could put him out of business.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as well.

What have red traders and customers got to do with it?

--
Chris Green

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:31:40 +0100 Doki wrote :
Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other day,
up front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials part way
through jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the customer
prop up the builder's cashflow?

But from the builders pov, why should he be expected to advance
thousands of pounds to someone he doesn't know, especially given that if
the client doesn't pay, recourse to legal action is likely to take a
prolonged period with no certainty of immediate payment at the end of
it. In my BCO days I came across rogue builders, but rogue clients too.

I've had a solicitor and accountant both do work for me recently, and
each has asked for a significant deposit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

wrote in


The Medway Handyman wrote:
But why should I finance the customers project? Without any
guarantee of payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or
whatever down the swanee - could put him out of business.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as
well.

What have red traders and customers got to do with it?

It's the blush of embarrassment?

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Doki wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I
would give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) snip

Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other
day, up front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials
part way through jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the
customer prop up the builder's cashflow? Doesn't work like that in
any other businesses - more usually the customer has a grace period
to pay...

But why should I finance the customers project? Without any
guarantee of payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or
whatever down the swanee - could put him out of business.

Not neccesarily without guarantee of payment. I'd be happy to agree 10% up
front, £x per week up to a total of £x until stage 1 of the project is
complete, with the project split into a suitable number of stages which it
is easy to assess completion of, and a retention of perhaps another 10 or
20% payable upon satisfactory completion.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as
well.

Hence the need to draw up a contract.

Certainly does work in other business's. Plumbers want 50% upfront
for boiler installs aroud here.

It doesn't particularly happen outside of the building / plumbing trade
though. Tesco and the like stock their shelves with wares with no guarantee
that I'll be popping in for a pint of milk that day. My barber doesn't want
half his money up front.

In pretty much every other line of business, you have to manage your
cashflow, or you go out of business. Most businesses want CoD when working
with the public, granted, whilst payment terms are generally available for
trade custom. The jobbing building trade (as opposed to those contracted
onto large developments) seem to have sidestepped managing their own
cashflow almost entirely (ie with decking - I imagine 50% covers you for all
your materials and a good chunk of the labour involved). I suspect if they
had to, a lot would go out of business - not a because I doubt the financial
acumen of the building trade but simply because it's what kills most
businesses.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:480e43c5@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not

a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

You cannot ask to see the deeds to the house when doing a quote just to
prove they are not tennants.(1)

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

That was total madness. Work stops immediately the payments are missed.

- Destroyed the work done

For the cameras and newspapers though. I suspect that he will not lose out
in the long run.

Not very bright, either of them.

Oddly enough the worst payers are builders IMHO.

Adam

(1) I swapped a fuse box for a CU a few years ago and when I asked for
payment the customer gave me the landlords telephone no. The landlord knew
nothing about this when I called him and told me to remove the CU and leave
the tennants without electricity.

On 2008-04-23 17:44:04 +0100, said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
But why should I finance the customers project? Without any guarantee of
payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or whatever down the
swanee - could put him out of business.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as well.

What have red traders and customers got to do with it?

He does almost live in France. The border crossing is but a short
trip down the M20.

On 2008-04-23 18:58:10 +0100, "ARWadworth"
said:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message news:480e43c5@qaanaaq...
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not

a

good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the work.
Council tenant.

You cannot ask to see the deeds to the house when doing a quote just to
prove they are not tennants.(1)

Land Registry

or did you mean the fizzy drink?

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:04:00 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

On 2008-04-23 17:44:04 +0100, said:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
But why should I finance the customers project? Without any guarantee of
payment? Look what happened to this guy - £22k or whatever down the
swanee - could put him out of business.

Never mind Rouge Traders what about Rouge Customers? They exist as well.

What have red traders and customers got to do with it?

He does almost live in France. The border crossing is but a short
trip down the M20.

First he has to cross the border at the top of Bluebell Hill! :-)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article , nightjar
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , nightjar
writes

The demolition was carried out with the permission of the property
owners -
the local Council - and with the Police in attendance.

Nothing like that in the referenced Mail article or those I have found on
searching.

It is within the area covered by my local radio station and they were
interviewing him this morning.

Ah, thanks.

I'm surprised it didn't get a mention in uk.legal

My skin isn't feeling quite thick enough to raise it there myself just
now.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

Tony Bryer wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:31:40 +0100 Doki wrote :
Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other
day, up front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials
part way through jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the
customer prop up the builder's cashflow?

But from the builders pov, why should he be expected to advance
thousands of pounds to someone he doesn't know, especially given that
if the client doesn't pay, recourse to legal action is likely to take
a prolonged period with no certainty of immediate payment at the end
of it. In my BCO days I came across rogue builders, but rogue clients
too.

Tony,

As an ex-BCO you know that is normal. Most bona fide builders will have
sufficient capital to fund the size of works they carry out (and let's keep
it the small/medium firms) and enough to cover the odd bad payer - and
before the works begin, would normally agree with the client the following:

A The amount of deposit - if any (and normally around 10%).

B The Method of payments (cash, cheque etc).

C When the payment will be made. I.E At the end of the job or in
regular, incremental stages (usually every month) - and based on the work
completed at the time and materials on site (which the become the property
of the client).

D The amount of retention to be held back by the client upon practical
completion (around 15%) and the period of retention (around 6 months).

E The latent defects period applicable after final completion.

All of the above would then be incorporated in a written quote/estimate
along with any other terms and conditions and given to the client to sign -
thus forming a contract.

The above is a general outline and would have been used in my CoW days some
time ago.

Under *NO* circumstances (in my opinion) should a builder start the works
before the above is agreed (and as you say, there are rogue clients) and
neither should there be a reason for the client to be asked to pay a large
sum up-front i.e more than a 10% deposit - or cash "for materials" *before*
*ANY* work is started.

I've had a solicitor and accountant both do work for me recently, and
each has asked for a significant deposit.

Well. I must admit, I have never been asked for *any* deposit by a solicitor
before he carried out works for me - but I have had a solicitor waive his
(rather considerable) fee because he inadvertantly gave me some 'bum'
advice - and another has given me a handsome discount for works he did in a
rather contentious Power of Attorney 'battle' involving a late parent.

As for Accountants - I have never had to use ones services!

Tanner-'op

fred wrote:
In article , nightjar
writes

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , nightjar
writes

The demolition was carried out with the permission of the property
owners -
the local Council - and with the Police in attendance.

Nothing like that in the referenced Mail article or those I have
found on searching.

It is within the area covered by my local radio station and they were
interviewing him this morning.

Ah, thanks.

I'm surprised it didn't get a mention in uk.legal

My skin isn't feeling quite thick enough to raise it there myself just
now.


Try uk.legal.moderated - they are less aggressive :-)

Tanner-'op

Tanner-'op wrote:
Tony Bryer wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:31:40 +0100 Doki wrote :
Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other
day, up front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials
part way through jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the
customer prop up the builder's cashflow?

But from the builders pov, why should he be expected to advance
thousands of pounds to someone he doesn't know, especially given that
if the client doesn't pay, recourse to legal action is likely to take
a prolonged period with no certainty of immediate payment at the end
of it. In my BCO days I came across rogue builders, but rogue clients
too.

Tony,

As an ex-BCO you know that is normal. Most bona fide builders will
have sufficient capital to fund the size of works they carry out (and
let's keep it the small/medium firms) and enough to cover the odd
bad payer -


Having any bad payers I view as a management failure. I don't give credit
to anyone. I have enough work coming in to be selective in what I take on.

and before the works begin, would normally agree with the
client the following:
A The amount of deposit - if any (and normally around 10%).

B The Method of payments (cash, cheque etc).

C When the payment will be made. I.E At the end of the job or in
regular, incremental stages (usually every month) - and based on the
work completed at the time and materials on site (which the become
the property of the client).

D The amount of retention to be held back by the client upon
practical completion (around 15%) and the period of retention (around
6 months).
E The latent defects period applicable after final completion.

All of the above would then be incorporated in a written
quote/estimate along with any other terms and conditions and given to
the client to sign - thus forming a contract.

Exactly what I do with a decking quote. The deposit is 50%, payment of the
balance on completion of the job to the customers satisfaction (hence no
retention).


Under *NO* circumstances (in my opinion) should a builder start the
works before the above is agreed (and as you say, there are rogue
clients) and neither should there be a reason for the client to be
asked to pay a large sum up-front i.e more than a 10% deposit - or
cash "for materials" *before* *ANY* work is started.

Why not? I don't run monthly acounts with my suppliers, so I would have to
fund the materials for anything up to a fortnight for a decking job. That
involve a high risk for me and a financial cost.

Can you imagine if I went into Jewsons & asked to open a credit acount with
a £22K limit if they had never done business with me, didn't know me & I
couldn't supply trade & bank references?


I've had a solicitor and accountant both do work for me recently, and
each has asked for a significant deposit.

Entertainment agents ask for a deposit up front - around 20% (their fee) and
full payment before the event. You also sign an Equity contract with a
cancellation clause agreeing to payment in full if the booking is cancelled
with less than 3 months notice.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Doki coughed up some electrons that declared:

Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) snip

Seconded. They were on about this on the breakfast news the other day, up
front payment, and builders asking for cash for materials part way through
jobs. I'd tell them to bugger off. Why should the customer prop up the
builder's cashflow? Doesn't work like that in any other businesses - more
usually the customer has a grace period to pay...

IME it actually works more extremely like that. New supplier: 100% cash up
front on a pro-forma invoice until you've bought enough things to prove
your worthy of credit... Getting credit terms is not actually trivial for a
small business.

Unless the customer is known to the contractor, stage payments sound quite
reasonable.

Tim

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:55:47 +0100, Tanner-'op wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:
Tanner-'op wrote:
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2008-04-22 20:22:57 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Not a good businessman for several reasons:

- Didn't secure the customer's ability to pay before starting the
work. Council tenant.

- Continued the work despite missed payment deadlines

- Destroyed the work done


Not very bright, either of them.

Too true matey. Why didn't he ask for a deposit or staged payment?
If I accept a decking job I always ask for & clear a 50% deposit
before I order the timber. The timber typically acounts for 35% of
the price so I'm in front before I start.

I'm sorry Dave, but if you asked me for a 50% deposit for materials
then my response would be "on yer bike" - the maximum deposit I would
give would be 10% (if I'm in a good mood) and I would be keeping 10%
back at the end of the job as a 'retention in case of defects' for an
agreed period (for a small job may that would be three months max and
for a larger job, six months).

Never had a problem matey. I ask for it and get it - 100% success
rate. I don't specify that its for materials, I just ask for a 50%
deposit.

Then those that give that amount of deposit are idiots Dave - as I said, I
would only pay 10% maximum and the rest either in stages or on satifactory
job completion.

snipped


From a very old, retired builder himself!

Tanner-'op

==================================
Maybe it's a matter of scale. The Medway Man is probably doing jobs
costing a few hundreds of pounds at most, with a timescale of days, which
is the nature of 'handyman' jobs. A builder is often working for thousands
of pounds over weeks or months. Most people would be happy to pay 50% of a
few hundred pounds but would baulk at 50% of thousands.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================